These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Survey Scanners

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
CCP Fear
C C P
C C P Alliance
#61 - 2013-10-21 11:25:47 UTC
Just bumping this up again.

Love the ideas in this thread! LOVE LOVE LOVE IT!!

I need more coffee...
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#62 - 2013-10-21 11:38:59 UTC
CCP Fear wrote:
Just bumping this up again.

Love the ideas in this thread! LOVE LOVE LOVE IT!!

I need more coffee...


Any chance of just getting it to be a Sticky\Dev Sticky or any thoughts, CCP Fear, on what may come of this or any "WIP" that would spur people on to add?

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
Circumstantial Evidence
#63 - 2013-10-21 14:59:44 UTC
Please give some minimum basic survey ability to mining ships (tooltip with ore units remaining, over the laser would be nice) if you add new abilities to the current survey scanner.
Dorian Wylde
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#64 - 2013-10-22 22:09:31 UTC
CCP Fear wrote:

But I'm also very interested in just how mining is as an experience and what happens before you actually go and mine. My experience has just been to undock, warp to a random belt and start mining.






This may be beyond the scope if what you're looking for, but there is one thing that annoys the crap out of me when I mine. Often in null sec you find belts that don't get touched for a while, and that means truly gigantic rocks. Some of these can be quite a ways away from the belt (which is a good thing) meaning you bookmark them and warp back to get in range. Unfortunately this usually takes 2 or 3 tries as the warp takes you to the center of the rock, bouncing you away. Quite frustrating trying to figure out the range you can warp to the rock.
G'host Warrot
Doomheim
#65 - 2013-10-26 12:13:20 UTC
CCP Fear wrote:
Very great ideas here!

But I'm also very interested in just how mining is as an experience and what happens before you actually go and mine. My experience has just been to undock, warp to a random belt and start mining.



Well, I can not say, mining is some sort of Thriller. There's no Danger in High Sec and 0.0. Yeah, well Rats aren't rly dangerous O.o Then u got Concord and ur mighty Intel in 0-Sec. So...u must only fear those Cloakys in 0.0 and Gankers in High.

Before I went to Low its always the same, u got ur Bookmarks in some Belts, logging in ur Alts and then keep moving ur 2 Miners 1 Orca Setup to it...and strip it down.
Sometimes u got a Corpfleet running, where u got 10 or more Miners...but it isn't very different...

As previous posted some sort of interaction on the overview, better Tagging would help alot. If u can see those Tags in the Overview and on the Asteroid, would be awesome.

Maybe change the "Belt" itself. Actually it isn't a "belt" its just a couple of Stones flying in Space. There is no feeling of "sitting in a dangerous belt in outer Space". There should be "real" belts around planets (Ring mining?) and around the Sun.

Greetings
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#66 - 2013-10-26 14:12:10 UTC
CCP Fear wrote:
BUMP!

I'm very interested in this topic. I would love to hear some ideas on how the survey scanner could be improved, what could be added to make the experience better and how it could be leveraged in a more co-operative or simple mulitplayer setting.

Would also like to hear just how it's being used. Any 3rd party tools that are being used to compliment it.

Basically, what does it need to do better to make it more interesting.



display rocks in m3 as well as by total units per rock. Its a simple calculation but its one less calculation we have to do in our head. Its very basic functionality for a module that doesn't do much and hurts your tanking ability.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Zeb DaMadMan2
Duckling System
#67 - 2013-10-26 14:31:29 UTC
Batelle wrote:
Its a simple calculation but its one less calculation we have to do in our head. Its very basic functionality for a module that doesn't do much and hurts your tanking ability.

Exactly why it shouldn't be added/removed. :)

"As soon as we stop asking about the launcher design, CCP will assume we already love it.

We won't." - Eve Community
Zetaomega333
High Flyers
#68 - 2013-10-26 16:31:40 UTC
Quote:
4. Outside of High-sec, NO ONE parks their Orca in a belt. The Rorqual will always be inside POS shields. It is suicide, plain and simple to put a Rorqual in a belt / Grav site in Low / Null / WHs. I understand the original intent, but it does not work that way in reality.


This a thousand times, You can buff the range that the orca or rorq scan but that wont change how dedicated nullsec miners use it. Iv been mining in null for almost 2 years now. We never aside from first warping to the belt to get a good scan on everything scan it with an orca or rorq, and i havnt even done that in over a year, using a mwd frig to scan the belt is safer and more effective as you can place pings for the fleet. You need to look at how the individual survey scanner is buffed, Laser range should = scan range in nullsec at least as no one takes the orca or rorq to the belt.
Amhra Rho
Accujac Elimination
#69 - 2013-10-28 11:18:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Amhra Rho
Not the first to suggest this, but Xmas would come early if I woke up and found a DScan button that reads "Show me just the ships". Also, New Eden is something like 100 million AD, right? So what did they do - un-invent servo motors and ball bearings?

Why else do you have to wheel your entire ship around to point your scanner?

edt: More coffee needed - this is a thread is about survey scanners. Ok, ok. Go give this to CCP Dscan for me, willya ?

There's real reasons why your Eve character doesn't do /dance.
Lidia Caderu
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#70 - 2013-10-28 12:04:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Lidia Caderu
Amount of ore in m3

Actually I even don't understand why it was designed without it....
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#71 - 2013-10-28 13:04:58 UTC
Amhra Rho wrote:
Not the first to suggest this, but Xmas would come early if I woke up and found a DScan button that reads "Show me just the ships". Also, New Eden is something like 100 million AD, right? So what did they do - un-invent servo motors and ball bearings?

Why else do you have to wheel your entire ship around to point your scanner?

edt: More coffee needed - this is a thread is about survey scanners. Ok, ok. Go give this to CCP Dscan for me, willya ?


Was about to say I think you misread the Title "Survey Scanners". Hit that coffee and come back Lol lol.

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
TheMercenaryKing
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#72 - 2013-10-28 16:17:43 UTC  |  Edited by: TheMercenaryKing
As a multiboxing miner, the only useful thing i currently do with the survey scanner is check to see how much of a large roid is left in a formerly known as hidden belt. specifically a +or 5 minute time of when the large spod will die (I am the Slayer of Spodzilla!).

How it could help someone like me with any change is tough to say. All the statics in null are done being calculated and we know by default what each one holds, there really is no point for the mod aside for the initial data gathering. changing the belts themselves to be more dynamic would make these more used, but again its just a one time scan or how much longer do i have on XXXX asteroid.

if you could use the mod actively like a target painter on a specific asteroid for a 3% yield bonus on that target, it would be cool i guess, but there should not be the stacking option for this.

=============

I think what needs to be looked at more than just the scanner is mining and the mining modules as a whole.

low-grade harvesting, costs more then you can imagine and does f--- all, only a range bonus. Ore miners are the same thing. Granted with the ore strip miners on a fully boosted rorqual you can get 45km range with a lowgrade set, but the range is truly useless: 1 you either bookmark on or near the clusters and if you are smart, you have warp in locations around the area, 2 there are so many astroids that you can simply move in one direction at a slow speed and suck up everything.

Then there is the T2 strip miners which you unlock at mining 5 but there is no point to use them until your ore specific reprocessing skill is 1 or 4.

Oh and the hulk cant even do 2 cycles with a rorqual boost before its hold is more than full and for multiboxers jet-can mining is not an option beyond 4 miners with a boost.

now that intercepters are going to be teleporting and nullified, it would be good to see if the formerly hidden belts go back to being hidden again, otherwise nullsec mining just got hurt, again. the mexallon issue is a problem already.
Zerlestes
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#73 - 2013-10-28 17:08:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Zerlestes
+ for Shared Information (what roid is mined ,m3,Lasers etc pp)
+ for more tags or direct assignment


- for Roqual or orca as requirement at least on grid

i like to have two modes to the scanner Long Range (like rigt now only that it scans a belt and not with 20km range )
and fleet operation 20km range detail information tags what roid is mined m3 left etc pp

if a ship is in scan range of the scanner and that ship has also a scanner in fleet op mode than the information is shared
that makes a orca like a ....... relay point for all information but isnt required if all miners move smart to build a sensor chain

i like the idea from someone a deployable scanner
but my idea is that the deployeable struktur only acts like a antenna

Hulk---Information---->Sender-------> Roqual -----Order----->Sender--------->Hulk
or
Hulk---Information---->Sender------->Hulk 2,3,4,5(other Miners)

Sry for my bad englisch
Zerlestes
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#74 - 2013-10-30 11:33:55 UTC
Bump
Delhaven
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#75 - 2013-11-25 18:22:02 UTC
CCP Fear: now that Rubicon is out, any chance we can expect something from out of this thread for the next expansion? Maybe one of those newfangled deployable structures?
Shiganaru
Ignis Aeternus Imperium
#76 - 2013-11-25 19:28:05 UTC
Some ideas I had, ignore if it has been said.

  • Change the Survey Scanner to a Passive Module
  • Add Asteroids to the Sensor Overlay
  • When a ship has a Survey Scanner fitted, the Sensor overlay will show how much ore remains in an asteroid.


For the cargo scanner, it would also be nice if we got a killmail / fitting window style reading of the scanned ship, instead of a flat list.

While we are on the subject, some indication of how much capacitor our target has would be nice.
Amarisen Gream
The.Kin.of.Jupiter
#77 - 2013-12-18 04:15:18 UTC
( didn't see this, had another post here https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=305657)

Okay, so reading over this information there seem to be some repeated desires for mining

1. Survey scanner is passive/cycles
2. Survey results are shared via Orca/Rorqaul to to fleet
3. Figure out a way to find out who much ore is in system.
4. Updates to the overlay to share information with survey scanner
5. Better way of knowing who is targeting what roid.

---I proposed this in mobile structure
It would be simple to allow (maybe not coding it) a new mobile structure that is a sensor. Player can place one in the system and with equipped survey scanner, get a list of all the astroids in the system. It would really need to be limited to just showing number of astroids, as well as possible range (make it easier to jump to)
A player who is using a Orca/Rorqaul would be able to gather the data from fleet members, as well as their selves, and share it with the fleet. When a person is in range (what ever range the survey scanner has) the information on the yield/mass of each astroid is loaded into the results.

So with structure in space players would see

Type - Range - Yield - Mass -
Veldspar - 13 AU - ? - ? - >>> Warp

So with structure, and player near astroid it would be like

Type - Range - Yield - Mass -
Veldspar - 21km - 90000 - 9000 - >>> Approach

To know if a player has targeted the astroid would be rather easy with color overlays.
On the overview, do an overlay on each ore that matches the relationship of the person who is mining it. Fleet = purple. Corp = green. Alliance = blue.

I think thats all of it. Might be more.

****
On the mining side of things.
I log my 3 accounts. Have this girl mount her hulk, 2nd gets her orca, 3rd does the hauling (waiting on skills for barge), find a belt and get as many astroids in arrange of my lasers with boost. sitting around 22km right now, which in hi-sec is nearly all the astroids in a belt. Then i start eating rocks, and pull my 3rd toon out of station when i need to haul the ore out of the orca (less to worry about just floating in space)

"The Lord loosed upon them his fierce anger All of his fury and rage. He dispatched against them a band of Avenging Angels" - The Scriptures, Book II, Apocalypse 10:1

#NPCLivesMatter #Freetheboobs
Lucy Riraille
Taxeva
#78 - 2013-12-18 11:29:24 UTC
This is one of the most inspiring threads I have com across so far in this section!Big smile
I LOVE THIS THREAD!

Here are my suggestions:

1.) Increase scan range significantly. I use warp-ins to belts, so I don't lose to much time slowboating to roids in a belt. And I can Check, whether there are already miners or baddies in a belt. IT would be nice to have a scanner that was able to scan between 150-200km (maybe with a new scanning skill: Ore Prospection?). And let the scanners auto-repeat again. (switchable)

2.) Transfer scan resulst from units to m³. The stats of our lasers tell us only the volume of ore yield (Yes, due to different density), but it's tedious to divide units by volume.

3.) Implement the "shield/armor/structure" display to the targeted and scanned roids. The information is on the server, just display it, when a roid is locked and scanned.

4.) Resort the roids in the scan result by ore type:
Arkonor with all varieties, Bistot with all varieties. The scan information gets more valuable as normally mining is done with crystals.

Alternatively:

5.) survey scripts: one for range, one to give results in cubic meters?

6.) similar to tracking or sensor linking: add a module that lets scan indormation be shared with fleet members who are close-by.
Spugg Galdon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#79 - 2013-12-18 11:53:11 UTC
I'd rather see mining as a whole get overhauled.

First, remove asteroid types and replace them with minable and non-minable asteroids. Asteroids will be very large

Second, the survey scanner will then be used to locate "seams" of ore in the minable asteroids. Each asteroid will have multiple seams of different ores. Once scanned the seams become targetable by you or members of your fleet.

Third, mining should no longer be a sit and wait for the cycle to end situation. It should offer more for the active miner. Basically, when you activate a strip miner it will open a window. This window will scroll showing your strip miner running along the seam. The mining laser beam will "drift" from the centre of the seam and require you to correct it. If you let your beam drift to the edge you will get 80% efficiancy meaning afk mining is still possible. If you keep your beam in the centre of the seam you get a bonus to yield, say 120% maximum. The scrolling along the seam will increase in speed the longer you're on the "sweet spot" of the seam to increase difficulty. Seams could also split into two or three different seams with some kind of UI indication showing a seam that is purer than the one you're using.

Mining needs to be improved immensly
Clansworth
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#80 - 2013-12-18 12:07:08 UTC
I, for one, have always found the survey scanner to be limited - not in it's capabilities, but it's usefulness. Compare to real life resource extraction, where the survey is sometimes more important than the extraction itself. That simply doesn't translate into the eve universe. in eve, you can mine nearly as effectively without even fitting a survey scanner. Doing so really only adds a bit of efficiency in wasted mining time on spent roids, and takes a LOT more active interaction and calculation to get that little extra efficiency.

Yes, there are improvements that could be done to the scanners usefulness. Sharing results is one. Displaying results better (overview column, target information bock, etc). But those things would only lessen the interaction/calculation effort, and not actually increase the end productivity.

I've proposed it many times over the last 8 years or so, but to make survey scanners useful, there has to be something to scan. Just seeing how big a rock is isn't as important as finding out what is IN that rock. To truly overhaul and improve this system, you'd have to make all asteroids 'asteroids'. Those asteroids would contain some natural mix of ores. The only way to find the roid that is rich in the ore you are looking for is to use a survey scanner, which would then show the results of how much of each ore was detected in that rock. You can then use an uncrystaled laser and extract a proportional mix of ores from that rock, or you can use a crystaled laser and focus to get a larger percentage of the targeted ore (at the expense of the non-targetted ores). This could greatly increase the NEED for proper surveying, as best results would be crystaled lasers on the properly rich rocks.

For a read-up on my old ideas, see here starting at post #83: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=579110&page=3#83