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Damage type questions for Caldari frigates in FW
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Janden Rynd
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-10-25 20:33:47 UTC
I'm a bit new to PvP, and for various reasons I've decided FW on the Caldari side would be a good place for me to get started. Condors and Kestrels fit my skills well, and as I expect to lose a lot as I learn, I've gathered a large quantity of both ships and the modules I need for effective but inexpensive fittings. My plan is to spend some time flying one to get used to its tactics, then try the other for a change of pace.

Anyway, I had questions regarding the ammo to carry for these two ships:


  1. The Kestrel has a flat bonus to all damage types, so the question is, what is the best to carry for ships I am likely to encounter as FW enemies? Is it worth carrying multiple damage types and swapping them out (if so, which ones?), or does the delay in reloading a new type make it best to just pick one and stick with it?

  2. The Condor has a bonus to kinetic damage, so naturally I would think that would be the best ammo to carry. However, a lot of Caldari ships carry this same bonus. Would FW enemies, expecting this damage type, fit extra defense against it? And if so, is it enough to negate the bonus, or am I still better off with kinetic?

  3. For both ships, roughly how much ammo should I be carrying? A few hundred rounds? A couple thousand? As I said, I expect to lose a lot of encounters as I learn, so I don't really want to lose more than I need to when my ships explode. but I also don't want to run the risk of running out of ammo during a long engagement. What do you find is a good balance point?
Chessur
Full Broadside
Deepwater Hooligans
#2 - 2013-10-25 20:47:38 UTC
Janden Rynd wrote:
I'm a bit new to PvP, and for various reasons I've decided FW on the Caldari side would be a good place for me to get started. Condors and Kestrels fit my skills well, and as I expect to lose a lot as I learn, I've gathered a large quantity of both ships and the modules I need for effective but inexpensive fittings. My plan is to spend some time flying one to get used to its tactics, then try the other for a change of pace.

Anyway, I had questions regarding the ammo to carry for these two ships:


  1. The Kestrel has a flat bonus to all damage types, so the question is, what is the best to carry for ships I am likely to encounter as FW enemies? Is it worth carrying multiple damage types and swapping them out (if so, which ones?), or does the delay in reloading a new type make it best to just pick one and stick with it?

  2. The Condor has a bonus to kinetic damage, so naturally I would think that would be the best ammo to carry. However, a lot of Caldari ships carry this same bonus. Would FW enemies, expecting this damage type, fit extra defense against it? And if so, is it enough to negate the bonus, or am I still better off with kinetic?

  3. For both ships, roughly how much ammo should I be carrying? A few hundred rounds? A couple thousand? As I said, I expect to lose a lot of encounters as I learn, so I don't really want to lose more than I need to when my ships explode. but I also don't want to run the risk of running out of ammo during a long engagement. What do you find is a good balance point?


For the kestrel, I would bring all damage types of CN and Rage rockets. Use your selectable damage types, it really is one of the key elements of missiles, not using that strength (and shooting into the resist hole of each target ship) is really wasting much needed DPS.

As for the condor, clearly kinetic is going to be your best ammo choice for just about everything T1. However for certain T2 ships IE. gallente / caldari- shooting kinetic will always be a 100% waste of time. So I would suggest bringing nova (for T2 gallente + armor boats) along with Mjolnir (for T2 caldari + Shield boats). Bring Fury + CN missiles as well.
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#3 - 2013-10-26 06:32:10 UTC
amount of ammo depends how long you plan to survive.

If you know that you engage certain type of ship you can take only specific ammo for that fight and nothing more, but if you roam around and do not really know what you will engage you should have lot of different ammo with you.

personally i do not lose often so i carry with my rocket kestrel 1000 rockets types i use most and 500 those that are not so commonly used.

Also if you take minimum load ammo, you can always take lot of t1 ammo as spare ammo because it cost practically nothing
Marc Callan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-10-26 11:02:16 UTC
Thermal damage is a good all-purpose choice. EM, as a rule, is better for shield tankers, explosive against armor tankers, but generally pilots will try to fill their resistance hole, bringing you back to thermal. This gets set aside when you've got a specific damage bonus (such as the Condor's kinetic bonus or the Talwar's explosive bonus).

Frigate fights are generally short affairs; I generally carry two reloads of whatever PVP ammo types I think I'll need, and about five reloads of T1 in case I've got to whack a rat.

"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." - Kurt Vonnegurt
Chessur
Full Broadside
Deepwater Hooligans
#5 - 2013-10-27 06:30:21 UTC
Marc Callan wrote:
Thermal damage is a good all-purpose choice. EM, as a rule, is better for shield tankers, explosive against armor tankers, but generally pilots will try to fill their resistance hole, bringing you back to thermal. This gets set aside when you've got a specific damage bonus (such as the Condor's kinetic bonus or the Talwar's explosive bonus).

Frigate fights are generally short affairs; I generally carry two reloads of whatever PVP ammo types I think I'll need, and about five reloads of T1 in case I've got to whack a rat.


Please shoot EM at a vagabond, tell me how that goes for you, or a Jag.

Please shoot Explosive against a retribution / veng - tell me about that experience.

There is no general 'rule' in eve. Each ship has their own level of resistance. In time you will come to learn them.

To OP, do not listen to this fool. Look at ships resitance profiles, and be smart- carry all ammo types, as having the ability to do selectable damage is a huge + When flying missile ships.
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Of Essence
#6 - 2013-10-27 06:41:23 UTC
1. I like thermal (good all round for t1 ships) em and explosive. Kinetic can usually be ignored IMO

2. Kinetic for everything t1 and amarr, some em and explosive

3. As a general rule I bring 2-3 loads of each faction ammo type (that I carry, e.g. sometimes don't rbing kinetic), and then ~ 2000 rounds of t1 as backup in case a fight goes really long.
Zen Guerrilla
CTRL-Q
#7 - 2013-10-27 07:19:46 UTC
If i'm in a rocket boat, i usually carry all 4 types of ammo.

My generic ammo is thermal.

Armor tanks? Explosive

Shield tank? EM

For T2, things get complicated. I suggest you look up the different races and print an easy list to remember the different resist holes.

pew pew
Marc Callan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2013-10-28 10:47:29 UTC
Chessur wrote:
Marc Callan wrote:
Thermal damage is a good all-purpose choice. EM, as a rule, is better for shield tankers, explosive against armor tankers, but generally pilots will try to fill their resistance hole, bringing you back to thermal. This gets set aside when you've got a specific damage bonus (such as the Condor's kinetic bonus or the Talwar's explosive bonus).

Frigate fights are generally short affairs; I generally carry two reloads of whatever PVP ammo types I think I'll need, and about five reloads of T1 in case I've got to whack a rat.


Please shoot EM at a vagabond, tell me how that goes for you, or a Jag.

Please shoot Explosive against a retribution / veng - tell me about that experience.

There is no general 'rule' in eve. Each ship has their own level of resistance. In time you will come to learn them.

To OP, do not listen to this fool. Look at ships resitance profiles, and be smart- carry all ammo types, as having the ability to do selectable damage is a huge + When flying missile ships.


T2 ships are a significant minority in faction warfare combat. Because of price, overspecialization, and the like, they're just not used as much as T1 and faction ships - which don't have the specialized resists of the T2s.

"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." - Kurt Vonnegurt
Major Killz
inglorious bastards.
#9 - 2013-10-28 11:34:50 UTC
Marc Callan wrote:
Chessur wrote:
Marc Callan wrote:
Thermal damage is a good all-purpose choice. EM, as a rule, is better for shield tankers, explosive against armor tankers, but generally pilots will try to fill their resistance hole, bringing you back to thermal. This gets set aside when you've got a specific damage bonus (such as the Condor's kinetic bonus or the Talwar's explosive bonus).

Frigate fights are generally short affairs; I generally carry two reloads of whatever PVP ammo types I think I'll need, and about five reloads of T1 in case I've got to whack a rat.


Please shoot EM at a vagabond, tell me how that goes for you, or a Jag.

Please shoot Explosive against a retribution / veng - tell me about that experience.

There is no general 'rule' in eve. Each ship has their own level of resistance. In time you will come to learn them.

To OP, do not listen to this fool. Look at ships resitance profiles, and be smart- carry all ammo types, as having the ability to do selectable damage is a huge + When flying missile ships.


T2 ships are a significant minority in faction warfare combat. Because of price, overspecialization, and the like, they're just not used as much as T1 and faction ships - which don't have the specialized resists of the T2s.



I use T2 ships EVERYTIME I LOG ON. You know. Sacrilege WIT DA 23 Inch GUN METAL PIRELLI RIMS and ADJUSTABLE HYDRAULIC SUSPENSION. I like to ride low and slow Cool AS FOR THE BEATS I ROCK IN THAT BAD BOY? v0v I like my BEATS FAST and the BASS down LOW Roll

[u]Ich bin ein Pirat ！[/u]
Danny John-Peter
Blue Canary
Watch This
#10 - 2013-10-28 14:06:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Danny John-Peter
Chessur wrote:
Marc Callan wrote:
Thermal damage is a good all-purpose choice. EM, as a rule, is better for shield tankers, explosive against armor tankers, but generally pilots will try to fill their resistance hole, bringing you back to thermal. This gets set aside when you've got a specific damage bonus (such as the Condor's kinetic bonus or the Talwar's explosive bonus).

Frigate fights are generally short affairs; I generally carry two reloads of whatever PVP ammo types I think I'll need, and about five reloads of T1 in case I've got to whack a rat.


Please shoot EM at a vagabond, tell me how that goes for you, or a Jag.

Please shoot Explosive against a retribution / veng - tell me about that experience.

There is no general 'rule' in eve. Each ship has their own level of resistance. In time you will come to learn them.

To OP, do not listen to this fool. Look at ships resitance profiles, and be smart- carry all ammo types, as having the ability to do selectable damage is a huge + When flying missile ships.


Lol.

Generally Explo versus armour and EM against shield is a not bad rule, I tend to load Thermal against shield tankers because most people plug the EM hole with a rig, Explo is generally a good choice for armour because people tend to stack 2 EANMs + DCU for resists which give a flat left > right (EM >>>> Explo) resist bias.

TII are obviously a different story but that's a given.

Generally shoot Kin/Explo at Minmatar.
Technically Explo should have best result against a Gallente armour boat however most fit an Explo hardener so EM is often best, as for Gallente TII shield, EM best again.
Caldari is again, technically EM but they often plug the hole so explosive can be a good choice, use explosive against Caldari TII armour, not that you see any really.
Amarr finally is similar, thermal is technically best however that hole is usually plugged so EM is a good choice there, Amarr TII shield is usually EM weak.

Obviously this varies hugely depending on the fits of your target, generally on Caldari Kin bonused ships I bring EM/Explo and Kinetic, that covers your bonus + the two major TII resist holes.

Finally when carrying drones its good to offset your damage type in Amarr/Gallente boats with a set of Valks or Warriors for some added explosive damage, carriers/supers generally should pack half/half Explo/EM because they are the two least tanked damage types on Caps, alternatively you can go all explosive because armour caps are so common.

There we go, resist exploitation 101.
Phaade
Know-Nothings
#11 - 2013-10-28 18:36:27 UTC
Janden Rynd wrote:
I'm a bit new to PvP, and for various reasons I've decided FW on the Caldari side would be a good place for me to get started. Condors and Kestrels fit my skills well, and as I expect to lose a lot as I learn, I've gathered a large quantity of both ships and the modules I need for effective but inexpensive fittings. My plan is to spend some time flying one to get used to its tactics, then try the other for a change of pace.

Anyway, I had questions regarding the ammo to carry for these two ships:


  1. The Kestrel has a flat bonus to all damage types, so the question is, what is the best to carry for ships I am likely to encounter as FW enemies? Is it worth carrying multiple damage types and swapping them out (if so, which ones?), or does the delay in reloading a new type make it best to just pick one and stick with it?

  2. The Condor has a bonus to kinetic damage, so naturally I would think that would be the best ammo to carry. However, a lot of Caldari ships carry this same bonus. Would FW enemies, expecting this damage type, fit extra defense against it? And if so, is it enough to negate the bonus, or am I still better off with kinetic?

  3. For both ships, roughly how much ammo should I be carrying? A few hundred rounds? A couple thousand? As I said, I expect to lose a lot of encounters as I learn, so I don't really want to lose more than I need to when my ships explode. but I also don't want to run the risk of running out of ammo during a long engagement. What do you find is a good balance point?



Use faction ammo. Bring at least 2 types, one for armor tanks, one for shields. Put one reload worth of each damage type in your cargo, and maybe 2 reloads worth standard ammo just in case.
Plato Forko
123 Fake Street
#12 - 2013-10-28 20:09:49 UTC
you guys are way overcomplicating this stuff. if you're against a T1 hull that has less than 4 mid-slots, just load explosive. if you're against a T2 hull, find the furthest celestial, hit warp and hope that eve-kill is up so you can get some intel before they come at you again Twisted