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Goons actions in high-sec

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Chopper Rollins
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#141 - 2013-10-28 02:04:31 UTC
Zsaryna Adrelana wrote:
Their loss then.
But it's not hard to look at D scan, or pay appropriate levels of attention to what you're doing. Keep checking D for suspicious activity, such as catalysts appearin, and you'll be fine and breezy. It is not the responsibility of the cheetah or the hyena to make sure the gazelle can run away or shoot back.


Ah the simplistic predator prey argument, yes.
No amount of checking d-scan will defend either miners or mission runners or haulers from lolganking. Flip the situation, anything those pilots do will be countered.
There was a half-baked movement by some guys to ninja into null and mine n mission away, an attempt to do something different. The thread it was announced on filled up with promises of counters. Yes people do hot-drop destroyers. They do drop Archon reps to save a single Myrm from dying to a small gang of noob rifters.

The situation: They cannot go to null or even lowsec without getting utterly destroyed or owned as pets. No amount of intel, scouting, perches, logi, spies or instawarps stops them from being wiped the f out.

Bottled up in hisec, being warped in on and smashed by gank fit dessies and tornadoes doesn't make them stupid or weak or cowardly or anything, just unlucky and at the mercy of people who live where 99% of all asteroids never get touched.

Hey don't get me wrong i've lived in null solo and as part of an alliance. I've disco phooned the Perimeter gates and thrasher whacked the odd retriever. I've never had a hisec pilot i've hit say "Well played, you hit my hisec alt."


Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#142 - 2013-10-28 02:18:58 UTC
Gold Lyle wrote:
This is a public message for the DMs.


I know there's some CCP employee scratching his head saying "We got a message for the "DMs"... Where do I find them at?"
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#143 - 2013-10-28 02:29:30 UTC
Chopper Rollins wrote:
I've never had a hisec pilot i've hit say "Well played, you hit my hisec alt."


Well yeah, I use perch points in Amamake, Rancer and other lo-sec hotspots so I trololol past your Disco phoons with my hi-sec alt. I used to make a couple of runs a week from Minmatar space direct to Jita in a blockade runner full of Angel loot, right through those worst lo-sec systems and right through the most "dangerous" hi-sec systems too. Using the most elementary tactics that any only-been-in-null-for-a-month noob is expected to know, I never even came close to losing a cargo, purely and simply because I am aware of the biggest danger that one faces in empire: the false assumption that it's safe.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Johnny Marzetti
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#144 - 2013-10-28 02:38:09 UTC
IIshira wrote:
Gold Lyle wrote:
This is a public message for the DMs.


I know there's some CCP employee scratching his head saying "We got a message for the "DMs"... Where do I find them at?"


I cast light missile.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#145 - 2013-10-28 02:39:14 UTC
Johnny Marzetti wrote:
IIshira wrote:
Gold Lyle wrote:
This is a public message for the DMs.


I know there's some CCP employee scratching his head saying "We got a message for the "DMs"... Where do I find them at?"


I cast light missile.


I dual-wield my Falcon

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Zsaryna Adrelana
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#146 - 2013-10-28 02:55:51 UTC
Chopper Rollins wrote:
Zsaryna Adrelana wrote:
Their loss then.
But it's not hard to look at D scan, or pay appropriate levels of attention to what you're doing. Keep checking D for suspicious activity, such as catalysts appearin, and you'll be fine and breezy. It is not the responsibility of the cheetah or the hyena to make sure the gazelle can run away or shoot back.


Ah the simplistic predator prey argument, yes.
No amount of checking d-scan will defend either miners or mission runners or haulers from lolganking. Flip the situation, anything those pilots do will be countered.
There was a half-baked movement by some guys to ninja into null and mine n mission away, an attempt to do something different. The thread it was announced on filled up with promises of counters. Yes people do hot-drop destroyers. They do drop Archon reps to save a single Myrm from dying to a small gang of noob rifters.

The situation: They cannot go to null or even lowsec without getting utterly destroyed or owned as pets. No amount of intel, scouting, perches, logi, spies or instawarps stops them from being wiped the f out.

Bottled up in hisec, being warped in on and smashed by gank fit dessies and tornadoes doesn't make them stupid or weak or cowardly or anything, just unlucky and at the mercy of people who live where 99% of all asteroids never get touched.

Hey don't get me wrong i've lived in null solo and as part of an alliance. I've disco phooned the Perimeter gates and thrasher whacked the odd retriever. I've never had a hisec pilot i've hit say "Well played, you hit my hisec alt."




Your point being?
Anything my target wants to do can be countered by the simple application of moar DPS. They tank, I bring a friend. They brijg remote reps, I bring another or possibly a third to tunnel through those reps. However that comes to a snarling halt around about the time I decide there's easier things to shoot. I'm bringing five catalysts to kill a hulk with remote reps or something, when for a fifth of the effort I could bag a hulk that has not put in any effort to protect himself. To use the predator prey analogy, why would I go for a pack of wildebeest when for less effort I could just go for the lone ailing one.

I fail to see how checking D scan will not save you. You're mining away and a catalyst appears on D scan, you can just align out and the moment he lands on grid, you just warp out, it's a simple solution. He won't be able to catch you, since to do so involves applying a massive amount of DPS instantaneously as opposed to over th course of several seconds. In fact you'll be gone by the time he's locked you up, if you're aligned and ready to go. You don't even need friends or remote reps.

Another point you fail to notice is that anything I do, you can counter. Bring guardian remote reps to the party and your chances of survival lengthen greatly since cost to kill you outweighs potential benefit. Bring mercs to watch the gates for incoming catalysts or thrashers, keep an eye on local for well known gankers and put them on your watch list so you know they're online a din the area. Bring mercs to counter gank the gankers. Of course all this requires effort on your part.

I do this for many reasons. I do it because I believe it is right. I do it because I will profit by it. These all consolidate into one reason: I do it because I can.
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#147 - 2013-10-28 03:04:58 UTC
flakeys wrote:
Gold Lyle wrote:
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
Gold Lyle wrote:
i need consider that EVE has became a PvP game in high-sec too, not only by the ancient war mechanism.

EVE has always been a PvP game, regardless of the sec area. PvP is allowed and expected everywhere, including highsec. Only the consequences of PvP vary between regions.

NPCs will continue reacting to PvP with the same logic they have used for years.


Not at all. The suicide thing it is relatively new, and that the main alliance works like a pirate faction is really recent. This is not the same thing that the old fashion war.



Holy .... have you even played eve for the last 6+ years ?

Heh, OP is correct.

I started playing this game well over 5 years ago. There wasn't any Ninja Salvagers and very rarely did you hear about a mission invasion (mostly Cosmos related). There definitely wasn't any gangs of cheap ship fits roaming around high security looking to suicide gank mining ships. It was mainly about can flipping and setting up bait to trigger combat back then.

The only time you actually heard about a suicide gank was when a Freighter overloaded with bling loot on autopilot was waylaid at the gate to Jita. A few years ago the Hulkageddon crapola started happening, praised by CCP Goon Devs as 'Player Generated Content'. That basically evolved into the roaming suicide gank squads now infecting high security space.

So basically the wide spread suicide ganking happening in high security is indeed a relatively new aspect, spurred on by lazy KB fanatics looking to pad their stats. Due to the ease of being able to accomplish it with low skilled characters, suicide ganking has become overly common place in this game within the past few years.


DMC

'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#148 - 2013-10-28 03:06:40 UTC
This thread only shows how much work still needs to be done to enlighten the masses of hisec, contrary to the wailing of many wretches claiming that the game is "unplayable" because of suicide ganking.

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#149 - 2013-10-28 03:11:21 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
flakeys wrote:
Gold Lyle wrote:
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
Gold Lyle wrote:
i need consider that EVE has became a PvP game in high-sec too, not only by the ancient war mechanism.

EVE has always been a PvP game, regardless of the sec area. PvP is allowed and expected everywhere, including highsec. Only the consequences of PvP vary between regions.

NPCs will continue reacting to PvP with the same logic they have used for years.


Not at all. The suicide thing it is relatively new, and that the main alliance works like a pirate faction is really recent. This is not the same thing that the old fashion war.



Holy .... have you even played eve for the last 6+ years ?

Heh, OP is correct.

I started playing this game well over 5 years ago. There wasn't any Ninja Salvagers and very rarely did you hear about a mission invasion (mostly Cosmos related). There definitely wasn't any gangs of cheap ship fits roaming around high security looking to suicide gank mining ships. It was mainly about can flipping and setting up bait to trigger combat back then.

The only time you actually heard about a suicide gank was when a Freighter overloaded with bling loot on autopilot was waylaid at the gate to Jita. A few years ago the Hulkageddon crapola started happening, praised by CCP Goon Devs as 'Player Generated Content'. That basically evolved into the roaming suicide gank squads now infecting high security space.

So basically the wide spread suicide ganking happening in high security is indeed a relatively new aspect, spurred on by lazy KB fanatics looking to pad their stats. Due to the ease of being able to accomplish it with low skilled characters, suicide ganking has become overly common place in this game within the past few years.


DMC


Suicide ganking started well before Hulkageddon became a thing. Here's a thread from 5 years ago to prove it: http://eve-search.com/thread/861203-0/page/1

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#150 - 2013-10-28 03:14:53 UTC
i like the football analogy you made in that thread

from 5 years ago

how can you play this game for 5 years

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#151 - 2013-10-28 03:27:54 UTC
Richard Desturned wrote:
i like the football analogy you made in that thread

from 5 years ago

how can you play this game for 5 years


You should have asked me that two years ago!

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#152 - 2013-10-28 03:28:26 UTC
How can you post on eve-o gd for five years?

Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal
Ryhss
#153 - 2013-10-28 03:29:01 UTC
Johnny Marzetti wrote:
IIshira wrote:
Gold Lyle wrote:
This is a public message for the DMs.


I know there's some CCP employee scratching his head saying "We got a message for the "DMs"... Where do I find them at?"


I cast light missile.

MAGIC Misile....

I just turned into an egg, did I level up? I spent an hour trying to salvage a wreck, when in local a guy said "Stop it, this is my Tempest, I was AFK"
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#154 - 2013-10-28 03:59:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Heh, OP is correct.

I started playing this game well over 5 years ago. There wasn't any Ninja Salvagers and very rarely did you hear about a mission invasion (mostly Cosmos related). There definitely wasn't any gangs of cheap ship fits roaming around high security looking to suicide gank mining ships. It was mainly about can flipping and setting up bait to trigger combat back then.
No, he's not. All the things you describe were commonplace when I started, which was before you did. You were just to new and… ehm… too highsec to notice them (and possibly too new to be worth attacking — something that has always been true). Or at best, you look back at those days of wonder with severely rose-tinted glasses.

Since then, suicide ganking has become increasingly rare, and ninja salvaging is but a shadow of its former self, and mission invasion has really dropped off since its heyday back when you were new — most of it courtesy of the numerous ganking nerfs that have happened since then. The first proto-hulkageddon (before it became properly formalised and when it was only a funny idea someone had) happened when I was stilly flying Hulks — i.e. some time in the first 6 months of Tippia's lifetime. It was a topic during the 2008 fanfest economy talk a mere four months after your character was created.

So yes. There definitely was gangs of cheap ship fits roaming around high security looking to suicide gank mining ships.
Chopper Rollins
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#155 - 2013-10-28 04:55:10 UTC
Zsaryna Adrelana wrote:
...
Your point being?
...
I fail to see how checking D scan will not save you. You're mining away and a catalyst appears on D scan, you can just align out and the moment he lands on grid, you just warp out, it's a simple solution. He won't be able to catch you,...


...and he might be running a level one mission, come on. Or be a ninja salvager who really just wants that salvage to make rigs with and can't run L4s yet.

My point is hiseccers, ignorant or not, cannot defend themselves. IRL ecosystems the predators eat all the prey and die out, that won't happen in eve because there's so few predators.
As for the much vaunted cluelessness of hisec barnacles, i lurked the Hulkageddon channel couple years ago and the level of industrial ignorance amongst the lolgankster kids was incredible. Asking why miners seem to gather around orcas, things like that. I got me giggles giving heads up to targets announced in that channel, but the hateful nastiness was simply a drag.

You're punching out people with nowhere to go, ok then, don't make it their fault though.


Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
Chopper Rollins
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#156 - 2013-10-28 04:59:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Chopper Rollins
Zsaryna Adrelana wrote:
...
Another point you fail to notice is that anything I do, you can counter. Bring guardian remote reps to the party and your chances of survival lengthen greatly since cost to kill you outweighs potential benefit. Bring mercs to watch the gates for incoming catalysts or thrashers, keep an eye on local for well known gankers and put them on your watch list so you know they're online a din the area. Bring mercs to counter gank the gankers. Of course all this requires effort on your part.



SORRY FOR DOUBLE POAST

BUT that much effort makes hisec mining unfeasible, 100 in system, the mercs are to watch out for, what? Combat ships?
These poor bastids can't afford to have their whole corp roaming around on high alert so one dude can do a L4 mission unmolested. Please think this through.

Edit:spellening

Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
I Love Boobies
All Hail Boobies
#157 - 2013-10-28 05:03:38 UTC
They got a few the other day in Lanngisi, or however it's spelled. I got scanned in my Rattlesnake that had shinies on it. Knew what was up. Switched to a t2 MJD Dominix, sold all the shinies and Rattlesnake, and now have the extra ISK in my wallet, and the MJD Dominix does missions well.

I should have switched to the Dominix sooner when they first changed the bonuses. I like it better than the Rattlesnake. Really no reason to have blinged out ships when there are suitable cheap ships to do the job.
destiny2
Decaying Rocky Odious Non Evil Stupid Inane Nobody
Looking for Trouble
#158 - 2013-10-28 05:07:27 UTC  |  Edited by: destiny2
There are plenty of ways to get back at the goons,

- fit a heavy tank pack a warp disruptor/scram and get some killmails while your at it.
- make a alt infiltrate the goon organization take assets, *not a hard thing to do*
- also allowing you to have full intel on their gooniebear ops.
-goons have many alts who run freighters in hs *kinda handy as well.

- Best advice if you wanna run soe missions dont use a Golem or anything fancey use like a cerberus, or something like that,
goons wont bother ganking a drake or something,
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#159 - 2013-10-28 05:09:06 UTC
I Love Boobies wrote:
They got a few the other day in Lanngisi, or however it's spelled. I got scanned in my Rattlesnake that had shinies on it. Knew what was up. Switched to a t2 MJD Dominix, sold all the shinies and Rattlesnake, and now have the extra ISK in my wallet, and the MJD Dominix does missions well.

I should have switched to the Dominix sooner when they first changed the bonuses. I like it better than the Rattlesnake. Really no reason to have blinged out ships when there are suitable cheap ships to do the job.


+1

Some people are stuck in the past, when all that bling actually made you more isk than T1. Nowadays I'd almost pit my domi or phoon against my Mach for mission running times.


I love I love Boobies. Also ******* :)
Gold Lyle
Akaram Technologies
#160 - 2013-10-28 20:23:29 UTC
The following mail has arrived to my mail-box:

Quote:

Mission Ganking Insurance
From: Marina Mayhem
Sent: 2013.10.28 00:59
To: Gold Lyle,

Hello,

As you might be aware, members of the CFC (the lagest organisation in Eve) are now engaged in proactive protection of ships in and around Osmon. Specifically the upsurge in defenceless vessels at the hands of aggressive pilots coming into systems solely to blow them up. Members of the CFC are targeting all Golems, Navy Ravens, Vindicators, Kronos' and assorted other valuable ships in order to protect the poor defenceless targets of these aggressive pilots.

However, we are willing to offer amnesties to well-meaning pilots engaged in more peaceful operations within this area.

For the low, discounted price of 250million isk we will add 1 ship of your choice to our white list which will insure you against any loss you suffer at our hands. For 500 million we will also add you to our region defence list which means that not only are you protected and insured against members of the CFC but also over 70 other organisations within Eve.

Act now to protect your ship, act now to protect yourself

Marina Mayhem
Ship Insurance Division, VFK


:D

Now, please, tell me that the goons are not the new pirate nation.