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Active Tank or Buffer Tank

Author
Tarren Renalard
MyMIX Corp
#1 - 2013-10-25 23:36:03 UTC
Hello,

Just got into my Tengu and have been thinking about different fits for some Solo/Small Gang PvP. I cant decide which way to go... Either Active Shield with HG Crystals, or Buffer Shield Tank? Gonna be using HAMs. Thanks for the replies in advance.
Froggy Storm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#2 - 2013-10-25 23:50:39 UTC
Tarren Renalard wrote:
Hello,

Just got into my Tengu and have been thinking about different fits for some Solo/Small Gang PvP. I cant decide which way to go... Either Active Shield with HG Crystals, or Buffer Shield Tank? Gonna be using HAMs. Thanks for the replies in advance.


For PvP the general wisdom is for buffer. Active tank can be alpha'd through. Though there are exceptions to every rule. With small gang and viable T1 logi hulls it makes sense for most cases to fit buffer.
Mnemosyne Gloob
#3 - 2013-10-26 00:00:12 UTC
large deadspace booster fit tengus (but that's also 100mn ab and other faction stuff including maybe deaspace invulns) [and links] can be some tough nuts to crack.
Mnemosyne Gloob
#4 - 2013-10-26 00:04:03 UTC
Froggy Storm wrote:
For PvP the general wisdom is for buffer. Active tank can be alpha'd through. Though there are exceptions to every rule. With small gang and viable T1 logi hulls it makes sense for most cases to fit buffer.


I think it depends at what scale you look. small-ish gang stuff or solo i think active tanks (both shields and armor now) can actually be better than the static buffer tank. Of course once logis are present you will want to have some buffer and resists.
Froggy Storm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#5 - 2013-10-26 00:20:43 UTC
Mnemosyne Gloob wrote:
Froggy Storm wrote:
For PvP the general wisdom is for buffer. Active tank can be alpha'd through. Though there are exceptions to every rule. With small gang and viable T1 logi hulls it makes sense for most cases to fit buffer.


I think it depends at what scale you look. small-ish gang stuff or solo i think active tanks (both shields and armor now) can actually be better than the static buffer tank. Of course once logis are present you will want to have some buffer and resists.


Agreed, scale does make a huge difference. Also location. Nul bubbles and specifically bubble camping nados make a huge difference in what you will want to fit. On the bright side a nul tengu won't have to sweat bubbles too much. But if they can lock and fire you will likely pop due to the obscene alpha.

As to logi, I was only making the point that now, with how cheap and easy (sp and cost) the T1 logi are its always worth bringing a couple if you have them. But as a 'filthy blobber' I admit I am highly biased towards that mindset.
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#6 - 2013-10-26 01:36:59 UTC
I'm with everyone else, it all depends on what you are planning and what you run into. To solo, well if you solo 99% of anything won't fight you if you are in an Tengu, Tengus are top killers in EVE anymore. Small gangs you can probably active fight, if you use a 100mn too, but if you die and then get podded with crystals you just lost a ton of ISK. Best usually is the buffer tank with 100mn AB, just burn straight to something you have a tac already in line with, that way if it gets a bit hairy you can warp to your tac, those you are fighting will warp to whatever your tac is in line with and you should be ok, just watch for scanning prodes and move around if you see them.

Big thing is get ALL your subsystem stills to 5, doesn't take long and really is worth doing, then practice PvPing in it either on sisi or with friends in your alliance/corp till you know what you are doing. I have seen acive tank Tengus take active tank Vindys, when the Vindy had the Tengu webbed and was using blasters on the Tengu. You just need to know your ship, and also know your enemy as much as possible. Just remember loosing a Tengu is costly, and not just in ISK, you will also loose one of your subsystem skills, which if you have to keep retraining it will cost you in your skill learning over time.
Tarren Renalard
MyMIX Corp
#7 - 2013-10-26 06:49:47 UTC
Hello guys thanks for the replies! I was messing around in eft earlier and thought up a fit(deadspace and faction modules) and came up with half buffer half active? It had 132k EHP with resists at around 83/93/89/83 with a pith c type large shield booster with crystal implants, ill post the fit once i get home, but what do you think of that fit so far?
Tarren Renalard
MyMIX Corp
#8 - 2013-10-26 06:53:20 UTC
Any idk if im too fond about the 100mn AB fit, i made a fit and just the turning sucks, and have to use so much mods/implants on agility. Only really see the 100mn AB used with HML so you dont have to dictate range as much?
Tarren Renalard
MyMIX Corp
#9 - 2013-10-26 18:17:52 UTC
Heres that fit that i came up with...

[Tengu, BufferActive]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Power Diagnostic System
Damage Control II

Gistum B-Type 10MN Microwarpdrive
Pith X-Type Large Shield Booster
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 200
Republic Fleet Large Shield Extender
Republic Fleet Warp Disruptor
Pithum C-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Pith A-Type EM Ward Field

Caldari Navy Heavy Assault Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile
Caldari Navy Heavy Assault Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile
Caldari Navy Heavy Assault Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile
Caldari Navy Heavy Assault Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile
Caldari Navy Heavy Assault Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile

Medium Core Defense Field Extender II
Medium Core Defense Field Extender II
Medium Core Defense Field Extender II

Tengu Defensive - Supplemental Screening
Tengu Electronics - Emergent Locus Analyzer
Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst
Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Tengu Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix

Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#10 - 2013-10-26 21:06:25 UTC
Quote:

Heres that fit that i came up with...

[Tengu, BufferActive]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Power Diagnostic System
Damage Control II

Gistum B-Type 10MN Microwarpdrive
Pith X-Type Large Shield Booster
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 200
Republic Fleet Large Shield Extender
Republic Fleet Warp Disruptor
Pithum C-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
Pith A-Type EM Ward Field

Caldari Navy Heavy Assault Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile
Caldari Navy Heavy Assault Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile
Caldari Navy Heavy Assault Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile
Caldari Navy Heavy Assault Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile
Caldari Navy Heavy Assault Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Assault Missile

Medium Core Defense Field Extender II
Medium Core Defense Field Extender II
Medium Core Defense Field Extender II

Tengu Defensive - Supplemental Screening
Tengu Electronics - Emergent Locus Analyzer
Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst
Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Tengu Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix





I would not use that for PvP, when you loose it and at some point you will loose it, it well not be good. Do not PvP in faction fit or above ships. PvP in t2 and Meta 4 fits. And NEVER use faction launchers or guns, never. You could PvE in that, but you would be looking at getting ganked if you did. Please don't fly that in PvP.

Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#11 - 2013-10-26 21:08:32 UTC
PvP Tengu

Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Warp Disruptor II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Stasis Webifier II

Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Light Missile
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Light Missile
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Light Missile
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Light Missile
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Light Missile
Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Light Missile

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Medium Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II

Tengu Defensive - Supplemental Screening
Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Tengu Propulsion - Intercalated Nanofibers
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#12 - 2013-10-26 21:20:08 UTC
That's one PvP Tengu fit I found, it's ok, nothing special though.

If I was you I'd dual ASB fit it, with either HAMs or HMLs, DCU and BCU in lows, either scram or disruptor, invuln, extender and resist rigs, or maybe speed rigs, and up to you AB or MWD. I'd go with a AB.

High -
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II

Med -
Med ASB
Med ASB
Invuln II
disruptor I
Web or TP
10mn AB

Low -
DCU
BCU
BCU
BCU
BCU

Rigs-
EM resist T1
Extender T1
Extender T1

Tengu Defensive - Amplification Node
Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Tengu Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix
Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst

Now you could change out the Tengu Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix to a Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir to get the other launcher, but that does make it more difficult to fit with a good tank, and the Tengu Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix give you a great amount of cap. I'll take 5 launchers over 6 for good tank and great cap anyday.
Tarren Renalard
MyMIX Corp
#13 - 2013-10-26 21:42:10 UTC
And why no faction launchers? Mainly gonna be fighting smaller ships, so faction ammo, T3's are meant to overheat and they last like 30 seconds longer so means more damage put out in same time, also a faster RoF, and about the deadspace/faction with T2 stuff in T3 makes it ****, just fit a full t2 one and have to downgrade to medium shield booster...? And putting RLML on a T3 is a horrible idea unless your just facing frigates all day..
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#14 - 2013-10-26 22:16:28 UTC
Quote:
And why no faction launchers? Mainly gonna be fighting smaller ships, so faction ammo, T3's are meant to overheat and they last like 30 seconds longer so means more damage put out in same time, also a faster RoF, and about the deadspace/faction with T2 stuff in T3 makes it ****, just fit a full t2 one and have to downgrade to medium shield booster...? And putting RLML on a T3 is a horrible idea unless your just facing frigates all day..


Because they cost way too much, and they can't do what T2s can. T2s can fire T1, faction and T2 ammo all, and cost less then 10% of what faction launchers would. T2s can over heat for a good while and T3s get a bonus to overheating too. You also shouldn't overheat more then a cycle or 2 before you stop over heating, unless the fight is going very badly. If you use faction launchers with faction ammo, compared to T2 with T2 damage ammo, the T2 always does more DPS. And even if you use faction ammo, T2 launchers do pretty much the same, and as only T2 weapons get the bonuses from the specialization skills they can fire very close to the rate of faction launchers, and the DPS differance is so little it doesn't justified the shear cost of the faction launchers. Using T2 items isn't a horrible idea at all, it's a smart thing to do, and with your skills where they should be, as I can see yours probably aren't, they work great. You do what you want, but remember kills don't just go by the loss, they go by what the ship was worth also. I am only trying to help, and have you not make the mistakes I did. Learn from others, instead of learning the hard way. I'm not attacking you, i'm trying to help you.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#15 - 2013-10-26 22:42:44 UTC
If you're not an expert; don't pvp in a t3 man...

=/

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#16 - 2013-10-26 23:21:28 UTC
I agree
Chessur
Full Broadside
Deepwater Hooligans
#17 - 2013-10-27 01:16:31 UTC
1. You never fly a tengu with crystals, always HG snakes for the 100MN AB tengu.
2. Buffer is going to be much cheaper fitting wise than an active tank.
3. The fact that you are asking these questions means you should not be flying a tengu in the first place.
4. The cerb is better than the tengu, you should fly that.
5. HAM"s are bad- get RLMs
Mnemosyne Gloob
#18 - 2013-10-27 02:46:50 UTC
Chessur wrote:
5. HAM"s are bad- get RLMs


lol. i guess you don't fight anything that is your weight.
Tarren Renalard
MyMIX Corp
#19 - 2013-10-27 02:54:33 UTC
Chessur wrote:
1. You never fly a tengu with crystals, always HG snakes for the 100MN AB tengu.
2. Buffer is going to be much cheaper fitting wise than an active tank.
3. The fact that you are asking these questions means you should not be flying a tengu in the first place.
4. The cerb is better than the tengu, you should fly that.
5. HAM"s are bad- get RLMs


Why is it bad to fly tengu with crystals? 100mn fits don't seem logical, you need to fit HML or RLML for it to work and fit a crap ton of agility mods for it to work... And HAMS are bad how? I'm not gonna be fighting frigates all day

And I'm asking these questions to learn, I'm getting my fit now, waiting till I get my skills up, till then I'm PvP to learn things so no need to talk crap
Chessur
Full Broadside
Deepwater Hooligans
#20 - 2013-10-27 04:55:24 UTC
Mnemosyne Gloob wrote:
Chessur wrote:
5. HAM"s are bad- get RLMs


lol. i guess you don't fight anything that is your weight.


Pretty sure the RLM cerb would like to have a word with you.
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