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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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Retaliation in Low-Sec
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Chris Mellen
Aymaerne Veldspar Corporation
#1 - 2013-10-26 19:06:52 UTC
If a player commits an act of aggression against me (targeting, shooting, web, scram, ect.) can I retaliate with out loosing sec status/being criminally flagged? Also can I do the same thing if a fleet member gets attacked without loosing sec status/being criminally flagged? Thanks for the answers in advance.

-Chris
Nick Starkey
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2013-10-26 19:41:28 UTC
Yes. Only the attacker takes the security status loss. If you destroy his pod in lowsec I believe you'll still be marked as a criminal and generate kill rights, but I'm not 100% sure.

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Chris Mellen
Aymaerne Veldspar Corporation
#3 - 2013-10-26 19:48:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Chris Mellen
Thanks for the help. +1 =) I would like more confirms from others, and maybe some elaboration.
Gallastian Khanid
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2013-10-26 19:53:22 UTC
If somebody targets your fleet mates and shoots them you don't automatically get to shoot back without sec loss. For example, my entire corp is -10. That means anyone can shoot us anywhere without incurring sec loss, gate guns, or Concord. If we jump a gate with 5 dudes someone on the other side can tackle one of us, and if any of the others assist we will get gate guns.
Gallastian Khanid
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2013-10-26 19:53:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Gallastian Khanid
Nick Starkey wrote:
Yes. Only the attacker takes the security status loss. If you destroy his pod in lowsec I believe you'll still be marked as a criminal and generate kill rights, but I'm not 100% sure.


Podding someone who is not -5 or below will grant you criminal status in lowsec.

E:Typed -10 automatically.
Chris Mellen
Aymaerne Veldspar Corporation
#6 - 2013-10-26 20:00:06 UTC
Thanks +2
Gallastian Khanid
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2013-10-26 20:09:59 UTC
Chris Mellen wrote:
Thanks for the help. +1 =) I would like more confirms from others, and maybe some elaboration.


There are 6 possible tags:

-NPC Aggression
-Player Aggression
-Weapons Timer
-Limited Engagement
-Suspect
-Criminal

NPC Aggression is a 1 minute timer that prevents you from logging off. You get it from being shot or targeted with ewar by an NPC.

PC Aggression is a 15 minute timer that prevents you from logging off. You get it from being shot or targeted with ewar by an Player.

Weapons timer is a 1 minute timer that prevents you from docking if you use any weapon, ewar, or gang assist (Remote Repair, Remote Sensor Booster, etc).

Limited engagement timer is a 5 minute timer that you get either from shooting someone or from being shot. It allows any further combat between the two parties sharing a limited engagement timer in the next 5 minutes. This is especially useful in lowsec for pirates on gates because a frigate can align, give a love tap to a target on grid with a gate, then immediately warp off. This generates a limited engagement timer, allowing the frigate to warp back and engage without gate guns wrecking him.

Suspect timers are 15 minute timers that allow any player to shoot you without gate guns, sec loss, or Concord. You get a suspect timer by shooting a player who has above -5 sec status. If you use a gang assist module on someone with a weapons timer or who is suspect you will 'inherit' a suspect timer from them. This is built in to prevent old highsec scrubbery with out of corp logistics. You also get a suspect timer from shooting a station or gate.

Criminal timers come from podding a dude in lowsec or shooting a player in highsec. If you have a criminal timer in highsec you get (almost) instantly killed by Concord. Surviving having a criminal timer in highsec is considered an exploit. I don't know what happens if you enter highsec with a criminal timer and your timer expires before gate cloak drops.

This system sometimes has some hilarious consequences. For example, when it first came out we had a roam out with 4 T1 logistics that needed to go through 1 jump of highsec to get home. We jumped in, and the tackle+the entire logistics squadron exploded immediately. Turns out the tackle had podded a dude 2 jumps back and gotten repped through gate guns.
Chris Mellen
Aymaerne Veldspar Corporation
#8 - 2013-10-26 20:32:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Chris Mellen
So, to clarify, if I'm flying around in an Incursus in low-sec and a pirate locks/opens fire the limited engagement timer goes off. While the timer is still on I can shoot this pirate and blow up his ship without losing sec status or any other penalty. Right? +1 again btw.
Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#9 - 2013-10-26 21:35:18 UTC
Keep in mind that merely locking is not an act of aggression. Only after he uses an offensive module (gun, warp disruptor, EWAR, ...) you can fire back without repercussions.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#10 - 2013-10-26 21:43:42 UTC
Chris Mellen wrote:
So, to clarify, if I'm flying around in an Incursus in low-sec and a pirate locks/opens fire the limited engagement timer goes off. While the timer is still on I can shoot this pirate and blow up his ship without losing sec status or any other penalty. Right? +1 again btw.

Yes.

General rule of thumb is that if someone shoots you, you can retaliate without penalty (sans the weapon timer which prevents you from docking or jumping through a stargate for 1 minute after your last offensive action).

People who have -5.0 or lower security status (see: "outlaw" status) can be shot on sight anywhere, at any time without penalty (they will appear as either red or blinky red/yellow).



For fleets things get a bit murkier.

If all of your fleetmates/corpmates/alliancemates have higher than -4.9 security status then anyone who aggresses them will go "suspect status" (see: similar to "outlaw" status)... and you can shoot them with impunity.

If YOUR fleetmates/corpmate/alliancemates shoot someone higher than -4.9 security status without being aggroed first then YOUR GUYS will go "suspect status." You will have to go "suspect" yourself and incur the penalties of being such if you want to assist.


Bear in mind that suspect status incurs not just security status penalty but also gate and station gun fire (if on gate/station).
These guns will pop most frigates in 2 or 3 shots and will become less effective as ships become larger/tankier.

So if you see an "outlaw" in a frigate eyeballing you, he/she wants you to shoot first so he/she can engage without gate/station guns.

How did you Veterans start?
Praxis Ginimic
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2013-10-26 23:04:29 UTC
Chris Mellen wrote:
So, to clarify, if I'm flying around in an Incursus in low-sec and a pirate locks/opens fire the limited engagement timer goes off. While the timer is still on I can shoot this pirate and blow up his ship without losing sec status or any other penalty. Right? +1 again btw.


Watch out there. As a criminal I use this specific mechanic to my advantage whenever I can. It only takes a minute to deagress but 15 to run out the limited engagement. If Ican warp out and back or jump gate and back then I am free to engage you without taking sentry fire. Oportunities like that are limited but if I am watching for I will see them and if you aren't then you won't.
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#12 - 2013-10-27 01:34:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Inxentas Ultramar
Praxis Ginimic wrote:
Chris Mellen wrote:
So, to clarify, if I'm flying around in an Incursus in low-sec and a pirate locks/opens fire the limited engagement timer goes off. While the timer is still on I can shoot this pirate and blow up his ship without losing sec status or any other penalty. Right? +1 again btw.


Watch out there. As a criminal I use this specific mechanic to my advantage whenever I can. It only takes a minute to deagress but 15 to run out the limited engagement. If Ican warp out and back or jump gate and back then I am free to engage you without taking sentry fire. Oportunities like that are limited but if I am watching for I will see them and if you aren't then you won't.


Also be wary of pirates working in groups. One might initiate agression, align out to a bookmark, the other one takes over the tackle while the first one warps off. The first pirate then warps back, and having shed sentry aggro he can engage you at will. His buddy then warps off to shed the aggro too, and warps back onto his friend. The pair loots your ship without any sentry issues.

Technically being in a fleet has no impact on agression rules whatsoever. But if someone recieves a Suspect flag, then yes you and your fleet (and anyone else in Eve) can freely engage them. Limitated engagements are where it gets murky, and these rules can be used to seperate a target from his fleet. Say you get 3 suspects to follow you in hisec. You and your fleet focus on 1 of them and each open a Limited Engagement: the other flashy Suspects cannot shoot back without CONCORD intervention unless you have allowed a Limited Engagement with them to open up earlier, as per Praxis' example.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#13 - 2013-10-28 07:22:56 UTC
Vol Arm'OOO
Central Co-Prosperity Union
#14 - 2013-10-28 13:24:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Vol Arm'OOO
Gallastian Khanid wrote:
Chris Mellen wrote:
Thanks for the help. +1 =) I would like more confirms from others, and maybe some elaboration.


There are 6 possible tags:

-NPC Aggression
-Player Aggression
-Weapons Timer
-Limited Engagement
-Suspect
-Criminal


Limited engagement timer is a 5 minute timer that you get either from shooting someone or from being shot. It allows any further combat between the two parties sharing a limited engagement timer in the next 5 minutes. This is especially useful in lowsec for pirates on gates because a frigate can align, give a love tap to a target on grid with a gate, then immediately warp off. This generates a limited engagement timer, allowing the frigate to warp back and engage without gate guns wrecking him.



Not entirely true. If you are camping a gate and shoot someone you get a suspect flag. You can then warp off and come back and the gate guns will ignore you. However, you do not get a limited engagement flag until your target shoots you back. This is important because once you get a limited engagement flag, you can pod kill without a sec hit, even though you initiated the encounter. Also, neither suspect flags or limited engagement flags produce kill rights in low sec - only criminal acts, which you can only get by pod killing someone who hasn't shot you back.

I should also add that you can pod kill in HS with a limited engagement flag as well - so if you see a suspicious frig in HS who has just gone suspect and you think to yourself, that you can take him, just know that when he warps in his logi to rep himself and you find the fight going the wrong way, be prepared to align out and save your pod...

I don't play, I just fourm warrior.