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A new strategy for dealing with loan requests

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Nanatoa
#1 - 2013-10-26 01:14:20 UTC
It has become harder and harder for MD to function properly where loan requests are concerned, as it is now illegal to mention mains/alts/related characters and any critical cross-examination of the person requesting the loan is considered a 'personal attack'. Whereas MD has historically dealt with frivolous loan requests by a combination of sarcasm and proper critical analysis, a new strategy will have to be found.

I propose that from now on any frivolous loan request will be reported either for begging - which is what requesting a loan without being subjected to proper analysis is - or, in the case of repeat offenders, trolling. Because that's what repeatedly asking for loans with no collateral is. Their motto is "if at first you don't succeed, try again" and all they accomplish is getting MD regulars riled up and breaking forum rules. It's a textbook definition of trolling. With all frivolous loan requests getting insta-locked, MD will be a better place. So from now on, report any thread which smells fishy!

"Stay the course, we have done this many times before." - (CCP) Hilmar, June 2011
Adunh Slavy
#2 - 2013-10-26 03:41:31 UTC
Could just ignore them

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
OllieNorth
Recidivists Incorporated
#3 - 2013-10-26 15:13:50 UTC
I generally just pledge 20b.
Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#4 - 2013-10-26 15:17:57 UTC
Yeah, maybe just stop pretending there ever was or ever will be some legitimate system of loans that requires defending, and just treat everything like the intentional scam or disaster in the making that it most likely is.

Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal
flakeys
Doomheim
#5 - 2013-10-26 15:22:38 UTC
Varius Xeral wrote:
Yeah, maybe just stop pretending there ever was or ever will be some legitimate system of loans that requires defending, and just treat everything like the intentional scam or disaster in the making that it most likely is.



So basically what we got going since ebank playtime ?

Check Blink

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#6 - 2013-10-27 22:35:56 UTC
I'll provide 1500m to Nanatoa's request.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Samroski
Middle-Earth
#7 - 2013-10-28 04:12:45 UTC
I appreciate the deep thought behind your strategy, though the pitfall may be the step where threads require reporting. In light of recent events, I have lost what little faith I had in the system.

MD is best left to self-moderation. The sarcasm may be tough for newcomers to pick up and a few feathers may get burnt, but hey! Eve has a learning curve. My advice: keep pledging 20b.

Any colour you like.
Inignort Err
SchmeckTel Group
#8 - 2013-10-29 17:02:36 UTC
Nanatoa wrote:
It has become harder and harder for MD to function properly where loan requests are concerned, as it is now illegal to mention mains/alts/related characters and any critical cross-examination of the person requesting the loan is considered a 'personal attack'. Whereas MD has historically dealt with frivolous loan requests by a combination of sarcasm and proper critical analysis, a new strategy will have to be found.

I propose that from now on any frivolous loan request will be reported either for begging - which is what requesting a loan without being subjected to proper analysis is - or, in the case of repeat offenders, trolling. Because that's what repeatedly asking for loans with no collateral is. Their motto is "if at first you don't succeed, try again" and all they accomplish is getting MD regulars riled up and breaking forum rules. It's a textbook definition of trolling. With all frivolous loan requests getting insta-locked, MD will be a better place. So from now on, report any thread which smells fishy!



I wasn't going to ask for a loan but now for s&s's I could use one, no, two billion ISK. So I'm a beggar. I guess that is the 'fishy' qualification. Now, I have billions in collateral available but don't want to assume any risk. So, that qualifies me as being 'frivolous' (with your money - which is what I assume the intent of the label is).

I'm doomed. I'll never achieve elite status and feel I can shape the playing field for my own benefit.
Magnu Stormhawk
#9 - 2013-10-30 09:06:22 UTC
Nanatoa wrote:
it is now illegal to mention mains/alts/related characters and any critical cross-examination of the person requesting the loan is considered a 'personal attack'


Wait what? Did is miss something? (highly likely as my lurking has been limited in recent months)
RAW23
#10 - 2013-10-30 13:34:11 UTC
Magnu Stormhawk wrote:
Nanatoa wrote:
it is now illegal to mention mains/alts/related characters and any critical cross-examination of the person requesting the loan is considered a 'personal attack'


Wait what? Did is miss something? (highly likely as my lurking has been limited in recent months)


Some rather heavy handed moderation removed posts that were scrutinising a loan request and later an ISD posted in the thread confirming that the moderation had been correct. However, things aren't as bleak as they seem - despite the denial of any error and without announcing the fact, most of the important posts were actually restored. In addition, it has been confirmed to me through other channels that we can carry on with business as normal and that the only posts that aren't allowed are the ones with insults but no analytical content.

There are two types of EVE player:

those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not.
CCP Eterne
C C P
C C P Alliance
#11 - 2013-10-30 14:08:22 UTC
It is not illegal to mention known alts of players when discussing loan requests or any other business ventures they are proposing. As long as you are not revealing any real life information or information on their account, it is acceptable.

EVE Online/DUST 514 Community Representative ※ EVE Illuminati ※ Fiction Adept

@CCP_Eterne ※ @EVE_LiveEvents
Nanatoa
#12 - 2013-10-30 15:05:03 UTC
Well I'm happy that has been cleared up.

"Stay the course, we have done this many times before." - (CCP) Hilmar, June 2011
Magnu Stormhawk
#13 - 2013-10-30 16:55:05 UTC
Phew.

Next contestant then!
flakeys
Doomheim
#14 - 2013-10-30 17:18:35 UTC
CCP Eterne wrote:
It is not illegal to mention known alts of players when discussing loan requests or any other business ventures they are proposing. As long as you are not revealing any real life information or information on their account, it is acceptable.



Allthough a dev mentioned the opposite in ''the impersonation threadnaught'' i'll take this quote for what it is and bookmark it for ''emergency use'' Blink

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#15 - 2013-10-30 17:47:12 UTC
flakeys wrote:
CCP Eterne wrote:
It is not illegal to mention known alts of players when discussing loan requests or any other business ventures they are proposing. As long as you are not revealing any real life information or information on their account, it is acceptable.



Allthough a dev mentioned the opposite in ''the impersonation threadnaught'' i'll take this quote for what it is and bookmark it for ''emergency use'' Blink

same here.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Erotica 1
Krypteia Operations
#16 - 2013-10-31 14:43:17 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:
flakeys wrote:
CCP Eterne wrote:
It is not illegal to mention known alts of players when discussing loan requests or any other business ventures they are proposing. As long as you are not revealing any real life information or information on their account, it is acceptable.



Allthough a dev mentioned the opposite in ''the impersonation threadnaught'' i'll take this quote for what it is and bookmark it for ''emergency use'' Blink

same here.


I too shall bookmark this for future precedence use.

See Bio for isk doubling rules. If you didn't read bio, chances are you funded those who did.
Jdestars
Stars Research systems Incorporation
#17 - 2013-11-05 08:51:12 UTC
Nanatoa wrote:
It
I propose that from now on any frivolous loan request will be reported either for begging - which is what requesting a loan without being subjected to proper analysis is ..!


Loan are not a implanted feature of Eve so its the opend door to scam for anyone ...and you hope that CCP clean this "building player market forum feature ... ?"

Do not they have other thing of better to do that to take care of it?
RAW23
#18 - 2013-11-05 10:48:05 UTC
Jdestars wrote:
Nanatoa wrote:
It
I propose that from now on any frivolous loan request will be reported either for begging - which is what requesting a loan without being subjected to proper analysis is ..!


Loan are not a implanted feature of Eve so its the opend door to scam for anyone ...and you hope that CCP clean this "building player market forum feature ... ?"

Do not they have other thing of better to do that to take care of it?


Actually, the hope is that CCP will more or less leave it alone. This thread was a semi-ironic response to the question of what to do now that CCP's mods had got involved in stuff they didn't understand and were breaking mechanisms that had emerged naturally over years. Fortunately, the mods dialed back their involvement and stopped undercutting the mechanisms that are already in use.

There are two types of EVE player:

those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not.
Manu Militari
Neurotoxin Control
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
#19 - 2013-11-06 09:47:58 UTC
flakeys wrote:
CCP Eterne wrote:
It is not illegal to mention known alts of players when discussing loan requests or any other business ventures they are proposing. As long as you are not revealing any real life information or information on their account, it is acceptable.



Allthough a dev mentioned the opposite in ''the impersonation threadnaught'' i'll take this quote for what it is and bookmark it for ''emergency use'' Blink


The threadnaught was about using alts, whether real or not, to scam. If you cite a known alt of yours in a legitimate business deal there is nothing wrong, if I understand correct? As long as scamming is not involved.

So in essence, you could basically vet loan proposals by requesting the requester to involve an alt in the process - if he ends up scamming you can therefore report him for violating the EULA/TOS by using impersonation to scam.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#20 - 2013-11-06 09:53:06 UTC
Manu Militari wrote:
flakeys wrote:
CCP Eterne wrote:
It is not illegal to mention known alts of players when discussing loan requests or any other business ventures they are proposing. As long as you are not revealing any real life information or information on their account, it is acceptable.



Allthough a dev mentioned the opposite in ''the impersonation threadnaught'' i'll take this quote for what it is and bookmark it for ''emergency use'' Blink


The threadnaught was about using alts, whether real or not, to scam. If you cite a known alt of yours in a legitimate business deal there is nothing wrong, if I understand correct?

please provide a clear distinction between a 'legitimate' deal and a scam. the only objective distinction i can see is one party using the word scam to describe a deal that went not in their favor.

I should buy an Ishtar.
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