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Serious RMT Question
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fattox4189
Victory or Whatever
Nourv Gate Security Commission
#1 - 2013-10-26 13:16:52 UTC
This one is aimed at CCP. If you're not CCP, I'm sure your opinion on the EULA is worth something but not what the answer from someone who actually works at the company is worth.

Basically, it's like this. I am studying mechanical engineering, and own a reasonable 3D printer. Nothing that can do multicolour, but I have the ability to print the base models of ships.

My question is this: is there any method of selling printed models for people to paint or display, that isn't in breach of the EULA? I'd prefer to do it on a raffle type system, where everyone purchases a ticket for a set price, in ISK. I generate a table giving everyone who enters a number, the computer generates three random numbers and the corresponding players get a ship of their choice printed and sent to them. Any size printable for 1st place, as long as it fits on the bed of my printer, 200mm max dimension for 2nd and 100mm max for 3rd.

That or just take orders depending on size for ISK.

So CCP legal people, is there a way of this that could be considered to not be in breach of the EULA that you would be happy with?
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2013-10-26 13:24:54 UTC
GL getting someone from CCP to answer such a sensitive issue in GD of all places. Best bet is to email them about it.

Sugar Von MurdererTits : Jake Warbird gets my vote for most intriguing and attractive male character in Eve.
Azami Nevinyrall
172.0.0.1
#3 - 2013-10-26 13:38:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Azami Nevinyrall
A similar question was answered the other day...

It'll go along the lines of "This is Intellectual Property, you sell it, expect a call from our legal department."

...
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#4 - 2013-10-26 13:42:29 UTC
fattox4189 wrote:
This one is aimed at CCP. If you're not CCP, I'm sure your opinion on the EULA is worth something but not what the answer from someone who actually works at the company is worth.

Basically, it's like this. I am studying mechanical engineering, and own a reasonable 3D printer. Nothing that can do multicolour, but I have the ability to print the base models of ships.

My question is this: is there any method of selling printed models for people to paint or display, that isn't in breach of the EULA? I'd prefer to do it on a raffle type system, where everyone purchases a ticket for a set price, in ISK. I generate a table giving everyone who enters a number, the computer generates three random numbers and the corresponding players get a ship of their choice printed and sent to them. Any size printable for 1st place, as long as it fits on the bed of my printer, 200mm max dimension for 2nd and 100mm max for 3rd.

That or just take orders depending on size for ISK.

So CCP legal people, is there a way of this that could be considered to not be in breach of the EULA that you would be happy with?



This is the same as making a personal Mix-Tape back in the 80's then trying to sell it.

It's not that hard to reason this answer at all.

And you had to actually start a thread and demand an answer form a CCP employee ? Someone is just bored this Saturday.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Himnos Altar
An Errant Venture
#5 - 2013-10-26 15:18:44 UTC
Wouldn't starting a Petition be faster? After all, you'd be talking DIRECTLY to CCP representatives.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#6 - 2013-10-26 15:26:34 UTC
Himnos Altar wrote:
Wouldn't starting a Petition be faster? After all, you'd be talking DIRECTLY to CCP representatives.


Yup. But even then they are not going to give anything resembling an answer till it's all been finished being combed for legal holes.

It's going to be awhile in either case. Quite awhile.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#7 - 2013-10-26 16:04:00 UTC
The only forum answer you'll ever get from CCP on these subjects is "make a petition".
I Love Boobies
All Hail Boobies
#8 - 2013-10-26 16:07:06 UTC
Of course it'd be against their EULA or TOS. You'd be infringing on their intellectual property to do this. If you wanna make money, just design your own stuff, and sell it instead of relying on someone else's designs.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2013-10-26 16:10:51 UTC
If you sell it for isk, you aren't making any money.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#10 - 2013-10-26 16:14:38 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
If you sell it for isk, you aren't making any money.



Just give me a minute to squeeze that 3D Printed Rifter into my Computer Tower so it can get ingame and be sold for ISK legally.

Jeebus the brains are getting smaller and smaller in here with each and every passing day.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
destiny2
Decaying Rocky Odious Non Evil Stupid Inane Nobody
Looking for Trouble
#11 - 2013-10-26 16:15:30 UTC
send a message to them via pention like customer service or something.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#12 - 2013-10-26 16:41:27 UTC
destiny2 wrote:
send a message to them via pention like customer service or something.


Pention is a non-existent word. Or something.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2013-10-26 16:48:41 UTC
Really? Same question in one week? Search works btw

And your question was answered in the other thread

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=289463&find=unread


TLDR has nothing to do with the EULA, but CCP's intellectual property is protected. So no you cannot sell them for real money.
Baggo Hammers
#14 - 2013-10-26 16:48:53 UTC
So you want to make money from other's ideas? What could be wrong with that?

If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there.
Mr. Orange
Band of Freelancers
#15 - 2013-10-26 17:11:43 UTC
I recently got my hands on some industrial tools and press dies. I am able to produce the new 2013 Camaro in my own warehouse. I will salvage the engine, tranny, suspension, etc parts from collision write offs and build the Camaros in my own shop.

I will be starting production on Monday.

On Tuesday I expect letters from GM lawyers in my box.

On Wednesday I expect my business to shut down.

On Thursday I expect to lose everything I own.

On Friday I expect to meet a shady gun salesman in a run down motel.

On Saturday I expect to swallow one bullet.

On Sunday I.....


Idea

Ya, u c wut I did tharrrrrr.....
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#16 - 2013-10-26 18:43:54 UTC
Mr. Orange wrote:

Ya, u c wut I did tharrrrrr.....


Not really. In fact: no.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Mr. Orange
Band of Freelancers
#17 - 2013-10-26 19:15:24 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Mr. Orange wrote:

Ya, u c wut I did tharrrrrr.....


Not really. In fact: no.


I feel sorry for your neighbour's dog.

Ugh
fattox4189
Victory or Whatever
Nourv Gate Security Commission
#18 - 2013-10-28 03:21:07 UTC
Valid responses, but it doesn't actually answer my question. I don't have any interest whatsoever in selling them for real money, only for in-game currency such as plex, or directly for ISK.

I can see where the idea is coming from too, and I know straight off the bat that selling them for real money would count as RMT/ IP theft. Hell, when I made them available for other users to print on Thingiverse I wrote a little paragraph stating that they are IP and Copyright of CCP Games, and mentioned the whole RMT/EULA breaches thing. I understand law, but I want to know whether selling them for ISK is still in breach. Having said that, the email address given in that other thread is where my next point of call will be, on top of petitions.

Thanks for the responses guize
Seraph Essael
Air
The Initiative.
#19 - 2013-10-28 03:46:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Seraph Essael
fattox4189 wrote:
Valid responses, but it doesn't actually answer my question. I don't have any interest whatsoever in selling them for real money, only for in-game currency such as plex, or directly for ISK.

I can see where the idea is coming from too, and I know straight off the bat that selling them for real money would count as RMT/ IP theft. Hell, when I made them available for other users to print on Thingiverse I wrote a little paragraph stating that they are IP and Copyright of CCP Games, and mentioned the whole RMT/EULA breaches thing. I understand law, but I want to know whether selling them for ISK is still in breach. Having said that, the email address given in that other thread is where my next point of call will be, on top of petitions.

Thanks for the responses guize



10. You may not market, sell, advertise, promote, solicit or otherwise arrange for the exchange or transfer of items in the game or other game services unless it is for in-game sales of in-game services or items.

Straight from their Terms Of Service

In-game sales of in-game items... Your 3D printed ships would be an out of game item... So in other words, you cannot sell out of game items for in game ISK.

Quoted from Doc Fury: "Concerned citizens: Doc seldom plays EVE on the weekends during spring and summer, so you will always be on your own for a couple days a week. Doc spends that time collecting kittens for the on-going sacrifices, engaging in reckless outdoor activities, and speaking in the 3rd person."
Xen Solarus
Furious Destruction and Salvage
#20 - 2013-10-28 04:05:20 UTC
I've got all this jewellery that *COUGH* totally fell off the back of this lorry. It's all nice gold and diamonds and shiny! Start your isk raffle bids now!! Shocked

Post with your main, like a BOSS!

And no, i don't live in highsec.  As if that would make your opinion any less wrong.  
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