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[Rubicon] Sisters of EVE faction ships

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Fa Xian
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#2181 - 2013-10-25 21:50:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Fa Xian
Why is there a laser bonus on the cruiser? I just can't see skilling up in lasers when I don't even fly laser based ships and I don't know anything about how to use lasers to fight. Can't we get some other kind of bonus in place of single faction laser on a hybrid ship?

Why not replicate the bonus style of the Gnosis? Is it really important that I use lasers on this ship? Why not just give a smaller bonus to "all weapons" like the Gnosis?
Xorionna
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2182 - 2013-10-25 21:56:22 UTC
Fa Xian wrote:
Why is there a laser bonus on the cruiser? I just can't see skilling up in lasers when I don't even fly laser based ships and I don't know anything about how to use lasers to fight. Can't we get some other kind of bonus in place of single faction laser on a hybrid ship?


that wont be the only faction ship with bonuses for only 1 weapon system.
Fa Xian
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#2183 - 2013-10-25 21:59:45 UTC
Xorionna wrote:
that wont be the only faction ship with bonuses for only 1 weapon system.


They're all stupid. They're not hybrid ships that way. It's not 50% Amarr, 50% Gallente. It's 75% Amarr, 25% Gallente.

It's basically saying "Here you go Amarr pilots... a new ship for you. Everyone else? You should have rolled Amarr, sorry."

A lot like giving me an Amarr ship when we got the Gnosis... what was the point of that but to tell people "Sorry you picked the wrong faction."
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#2184 - 2013-10-25 22:04:00 UTC
Xolve wrote:

"find something inside complex, click on it, push orbit at whatever, activate afterburner, pew pew pew" still works in the scope the ship was designed for without replacing the need for completely ridiculous Marauder changes (seriously how much crap do you nerds need to efficiently kill little red crosses all day).

This change, regardless of what any of you publords think about it, is pretty well thought out and implemented- A ship that was previously ridiculously OP is now only kind-of-sort-of OP. If you're planning on armor tanking this beautiful ship you're bad at everything and should feel bad; just throwing that out there.


3 slot shield tank looks pretty sketchy with t1 shield resistances, unless you like not having any application bonuses for your sentry drones. I like being able to hit past 30km with gardes.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#2185 - 2013-10-25 22:04:40 UTC  |  Edited by: PotatoOverdose
Igor Nappi wrote:
Most people will probably stick to their Tengus and Ishtars.

So.....working as intended? The stratios isn't supposed to be the next tier of raid gear. It does the job worse than the typical tengu or ishtar, but it has a covops cloak.

For those of you unfamiliar, the best covops cloak pve ship atm is the covops tengu. It can tank 6/10, just like the stratios. But the dps it can project to 30km+ is around 300 dps. Maybe you can push 370 if you pimp it, and that's EFT dps, not applied dps. That's it.

Along comes the stratios, which can also tank a 6/10, but can push well over 500dps at those ranges (in addition to all of it's other advantages). It's a massive buff for pve covops ships.

Stop complaining that you aren't getting a covops ishtar.
Cammi Kazi
Perkone
Caldari State
#2186 - 2013-10-25 22:08:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Cammi Kazi
What is the difference between a covert ops ishtar and a cloaky fit exploration drone proteus? because that is pretty much what it is at the minute.

I just dont want the dumb laser bonus and an extra mid to fit both hacking mods would be good.
Ganthrithor
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#2187 - 2013-10-25 22:22:54 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Alright, after a lot of feedback and discussion I'm going to share what will likely be the last set of tweaks to the Stratios and Astero before launch.

We feel that while there are significant weaknesses in the cruiser that do balance it against major abuse, it's simply too strong in its current state. The combination of the covert cloak, black ops portal access and extremely high damage potential make for a ship that does a bit more than we are comfortable with. To tone it down slightly we are going to lower the drone bandwidth to 100mb/s and the drone bay to 400m3.

The ship will still have very high damage potential and will certainly still be very powerful overall.

This also makes me feel better about some other small changes that improve the ship, so we'll also be increasing the virus strength bonus to +10 and changing the laser cap use bonus to a medium energy turret optimal range bonus of 50%. We will also extend the virus strength bonus to the Astero.

Please post with feedback, but keep in mind that these changes are made after processing tons of feedback from the forums, my visit to EVE Vegas and a lot of internal discussion.

Thanks


This ship is still ridiculously OP, but whatever man. I'll be using it all the time so I guess I shouldn't complain about it huh?
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#2188 - 2013-10-25 22:30:46 UTC  |  Edited by: PotatoOverdose
Cammi Kazi wrote:
What is the difference between a covert ops ishtar and a cloaky fit exploration drone proteus? because that is pretty much what it is at the minute.

I just dont want the dumb laser bonus and an extra mid to fit both hacking mods would be good.

ROFL covops drone proteus. Enjoy your using your 5 warrior II's to clear 6/10's. Tell me how that works out for ya.

Like I said, these people just want a covops ishtar. Covops drone proteus - LOL. Lol
Fayral
Nano Currency
Yeet. Pray. Love.
#2189 - 2013-10-25 22:31:52 UTC
Xorionna wrote:
Right now, SOE ships will gain a T2 ship only bonus (covert op cloaking devices). I think it is a bad idea, It would be better if they had a speed bonus when cloaked (like black ops ?). There is no T1 cov ops modules, there should be no T1 ships able to fit them.
Note that I don't want the guristas line to be able to fit a bastion module either.

Looks like Guristas ships will loose the drone focused bonuses they have right now. As a result there will be no more shield tanked drone boats in the game. I also think it's a bad idea to loose this versatility.

I would give role bonuses to drones for SOE ships and only role bonuses (fixed hit point bonus, orbital speed and MWD speed so ogres can become way scarier maybe sensor strength of electronic warfare drones...). This way the ships and its drones are both mobile. The +10 virus strength and the bonus to scanning fits perfectly SOE so I think it should stay this way.
For skill-dependent bonuses (amarr/gallente frigate/cruiser) I would focus on tracking + damage bonuses for lasers (no one wants to use them for lasers so far) and tanking.



By that logic, No t1 hulls should be able to fit T2 Weapons systems. Just like the ability to warp cloaked that the t2 variant brings to cloaking devices, Scorch and barrage unlock a whole new world compared to their T1 counterparts.

Not being able to warp cloaked would make it alot more difficult to get around in hostile areas while exploring.

Overall i support the 2nd iteration and look forward to trying it out.
Rikard Nomm
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2190 - 2013-10-25 22:34:10 UTC
Cammi Kazi wrote:
What is the difference between a covert ops ishtar and a cloaky fit exploration drone proteus? because that is pretty much what it is at the minute.

I just dont want the dumb laser bonus and an extra mid to fit both hacking mods would be good.


the drone system and covert system occupy the same subsystem on the proteus. this is not a thing.
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#2191 - 2013-10-25 22:36:34 UTC
Rikard Nomm wrote:
Cammi Kazi wrote:
What is the difference between a covert ops ishtar and a cloaky fit exploration drone proteus? because that is pretty much what it is at the minute.

I just dont want the dumb laser bonus and an extra mid to fit both hacking mods would be good.


the drone system and covert system occupy the same subsystem on the proteus. this is not a thing.

I prefer to think that he goes around with the proteus covops subsystem + augmented capacitor sub and tries to run 6/10's using only one flight of warrior II's as dps. Roll
Menaiya Zamayid
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#2192 - 2013-10-25 22:47:30 UTC
I'd rather have the 125Mb/s bandwith than the extreme range for lasers.
Cammi Kazi
Perkone
Caldari State
#2193 - 2013-10-25 22:48:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Cammi Kazi
Rikard Nomm wrote:
Cammi Kazi wrote:
What is the difference between a covert ops ishtar and a cloaky fit exploration drone proteus? because that is pretty much what it is at the minute.

I just dont want the dumb laser bonus and an extra mid to fit both hacking mods would be good.


the drone system and covert system occupy the same subsystem on the proteus. this is not a thing.


I know its not a thing but thats what this ship is going to be so it will be a thing.

Like i said.

How is a covert ops drone proteus going to be different to a covert ops ishtar?

i'm not complaining that im not getting a covert ops ishtar, i just want both hacking mods on it. :)
Dehval
Ascendance Rising
Ascendance..
#2194 - 2013-10-25 22:57:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Dehval
Fa Xian wrote:
Xorionna wrote:
that wont be the only faction ship with bonuses for only 1 weapon system.


They're all stupid. They're not hybrid ships that way. It's not 50% Amarr, 50% Gallente. It's 75% Amarr, 25% Gallente.

It's basically saying "Here you go Amarr pilots... a new ship for you. Everyone else? You should have rolled Amarr, sorry."

A lot like giving me an Amarr ship when we got the Gnosis... what was the point of that but to tell people "Sorry you picked the wrong faction."

Seems like 50/50 split to me, give or take.

Gallente
  • Gallente Hull = Gallente Resist profile and Magnetometric Sensor
  • Gallente slot layout (Amarr never gets more than 4 mids outside of Recons)

    • Amarr
  • Amarr Resist Bonus
  • Amarr Laser Bonus

    • Both
  • Drone Damage/Health (Although it is technically a Gallente centric bonus despite being found on a few Amarr ships)

    • If you count the Drone damage being a Gallente bonus it actually gets shifted 3/5 in Gallente's favor.
    Dehval
    Ascendance Rising
    Ascendance..
    #2195 - 2013-10-25 23:02:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Dehval
    Double post.
    Arthur Aihaken
    CODE.d
    #2196 - 2013-10-25 23:07:18 UTC
    Better not touch my T3 after this.

    I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
    Gummy Worm
    Imperial Shipment
    Amarr Empire
    #2197 - 2013-10-25 23:09:16 UTC
    Arthur Aihaken wrote:
    Better not touch my T3 after this.


    Oh, it's coming. We all know it.
    Eko Fromtv
    Center for Advanced Studies
    Gallente Federation
    #2198 - 2013-10-25 23:10:57 UTC
    Well I would not be happy with ANY nerf to the Stratios. It is a big nerf tho, no mistake about it. One less drone will make a huge difference in combat sites.

    Basically you will turn it into a data/relic explorer and away from the DED/site running role.

    It is a tolerable change more or less, but please no more nerfing.

    (Ice) Miner for life.
    elitatwo
    Zansha Expansion
    #2199 - 2013-10-25 23:43:58 UTC
    Since we are nerfing pirate boats now, can we make the very, very large Angel frigate into a cruiser and the very, very, very large Angel cruiser into a battleship sized hull??

    Well Vegas the town of gamble and lots of drinking..

    I don't know if the flickering lights in this town causes anomalies in some peoples minds or other mind changing things but changing a pirate boat before anyone has sat foot into these?

    The idea of a laser-drone boat is what made thing interesting when the thread started and some of you might not have seen it but should know that this boat was a cloaked Maller with drones and not a cloaked Ishtar.

    It could be that some people are scared of EFT values that don't tell the right story to begin with and lack imagination but if I would see a Stratios uncloak and know that there is no tracking bonus on that boat, you can simply hit apprach and kill it in less then a minute and the sentries couldn't do much about it at close range.

    If you would be the pilot of that boat you should be aware of what you can or cannot take and even abandon your drones to save your pirate cruiser (yes its a cruiser not a battleship and it doesn't come with tech2 resists, it comes with tech1 resist plus Prophecy, Maller, Abbadon and Punisher resists and a three slot armor tank layout).

    Now do that 4 times and you might be glad to have a turret on your boat.

    By the logic of some the Vigilant is a omg-bbq-solo-wtf-90% web-pwn-omg-op mobile that is unbreakable and clearly more op.

    Eve Minions is recruiting.

    This is the law of ship progression!

    Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
    PotatoOverdose
    School of Applied Knowledge
    Caldari State
    #2200 - 2013-10-26 00:12:43 UTC  |  Edited by: PotatoOverdose
    Cammi Kazi wrote:

    How is a covert ops drone proteus going to be different to a covert ops ishtar?

    As has been said three times already, there's no such thing as a covert ops drone proteus.

    Their's the covert ops blaster proteus with augmented cap sub which does ~400-450 dps with blasters (so 3km) and has a flight of warrior II's (which do what, 50-70dps?). You can push the blaster dps up a bit if you drop a probe launcher, but then the comparison to the stratios becomes less relevant.

    So again, if you don't get it, a covert ops proteus is NOTHING like an ishtar.

    elitatwo wrote:

    By the logic of some the Vigilant is a omg-bbq-solo-wtf-90% web-pwn-omg-op mobile that is unbreakable and clearly more op.

    Vigilant doesn't have a covops cloak, meaning it can't pick it's fight nearly as well, it can't avoid fights nearly as well, and it can't be dropped on people via blops.

    If the Stratios didn't have a covops cloak, no one would have called it OP in the first place. But it does, and needs to be balanced accordingly.