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TIDI - killing EVE slowly

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Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#101 - 2013-10-24 21:48:19 UTC
TL;DR

Apparently some people actually want to go back to the days of jumping into a system and waking up dead before you even see who killed you.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Iamsamsara
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#102 - 2013-10-24 21:51:35 UTC
Ghost Titans and black screens were much better am i right?
Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#103 - 2013-10-24 21:57:27 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Not reading, but the only downside to tidi is that it disincentivizes addressing both the gameplay mechanics and technical issues that cause lag.

*Snip* Please refrain from rumor mongering. ISD Ezwal

Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal
Karak Terrel
Foundation for CODE and THE NEW ORDER
#104 - 2013-10-24 22:56:18 UTC
If you don't like TIDI, the solution is very easy. stay docked! Not only will it prevent you from having to suffer trough this "horrible" experience. It also reduces the load for anyone else and makes it more enjoyable for them.

Realizing that you in fact are part of the problem is the first step. But I guess whining about it and blaming CCP is much easier.

Hell, there was a time when I was in a 50 vs. 50 gang and the whole game crashed for half the people.

TIDI does not fix lag, it fixes the game. It is a graceful degradation mechanic and it works.

If you know a solution how you can increase the complexity of a simulation without creating more load i'm sure CCP would be happy to hear your proposal. If you just "demand" what seams to be impossible you should not be surprised if people that actually think about the problem and see it for what it is don't take you seriously.
Dr0000 Maulerant
Union Nanide and Tooling
#105 - 2013-10-25 00:45:08 UTC
Dear CCP, I will buy you a d-wave computer if you give me unlimited SP for all my toons. Lets make this happen.

OP should be building a shrine to thank devs for how brilliant a solution TiDi is, compared to lag.

Tell me again about how every playstyle you dont engage in "doesn't require any effort" and everyone who does it needs to die in a fire. Be sure to mention about how you tried it once but it was too easy/boring/ethnic-homophobic slur. 
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#106 - 2013-10-25 08:16:19 UTC
When I am king, people who whine about "TiDi" when what they actually mean is "lag" will be put in a rocket and shot into the sun. I might even make it some kind of public holiday, with some fireworks and sports events and stuff.

'Lag': The server node has more work to do than it can properly accomplish in the time available, with adverse consequences for gameplay.

TiDi: a set of processes that mitigate those adverse consequences of lag, and apply them far more fairly.

If you want CCP to prioritise improvements to server performance, then make some noise supporting CCP Veritas and his 'Brain In A Box' project. Also, if you're an FC and you're expecting a TiDi-triggering situation, file a reinforcement petition. Those petitions do work to reduce lag, and more importantly they give CCP some actual metrics on how much of a problem the players perceive server performance to be.

Crying about "TiDi CryCryCry" in General Discussion is not a productive avenue for improving server performance. Children cry because a solution is necessary; adults look at how those solutions can be improved and the need for them to be obviated.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Wacktopia
Fleet-Up.com
Keep It Simple Software Group
#107 - 2013-10-25 10:08:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Wacktopia
Xain deSleena wrote:
Stuff.


Did you ever play in a large battle without TIDI?

This is what happened....

- Jump gate.
- Black screen
- 30 minutes pass
- In station needing new med clone.

Yes, ideally the game would run without lag or TiDi but given choice I think most people prefer TiDi.

There are downsides to TiDi but I'd argue they are not 'killing' EVE. Lag was 'killing' EVE.

Kitchen sink? Seriousy, get your ship together -  Fleet-Up.com
Lugalbandak
Doomheim
#108 - 2013-10-25 10:10:15 UTC
Tidi kills your enemy slowly or yourself but not the game me thinks

The police horse is the only animal in the world that haz his male genitals on his back
Tialano Utrigas
Running with Dogs
OnlyFleets.
#109 - 2013-10-25 10:52:36 UTC
Confirming the OP is offering to pay for the required hardware upgrades required to prevent TiDi.

Suggest you pick up the phone to NASA as a first port of call.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#110 - 2013-10-25 11:18:43 UTC
You're all nuts.

Argueing with this tenager will lead to nothing.
You keep trying, ignoring reality as usual.


In case you're not nuts, the only other reason why you keep posting seems to be
that you are all slaves of your own egos.

Six pages, soon reaching seven...

I guess both cases are true.
Galadriel Vasquez
Vigil Indomitus
Fraternity.
#111 - 2013-10-25 11:31:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Galadriel Vasquez
CVA have had large engagements all this week - we had 1600 total pilots in one system (Blues and Reds).

Once the foreplay stopped and combat began there were occasions of 600 on grid at one place brawling and 300 or so at the I-Hub having a good tear up. TIDI was in effect and it was like wading through treacle - but at least it kinda works. The other option is that it all falls over and we awake in stations like the old days.

The command guys got the node reinforced by CCP and it still struggled at times but it was playable. There were a few moments where the server was brain farting - none more so when i was spamming warp and nothing happened for 30 seconds - followed by a "your ship is out of control" message or something similar to those words!

But lets look at it rationally - you have 1600 guys all inputting commands and the server is no doubt under immense strain sorting through and replicating the data to display a usable/playable game. I can't think of any other game where this many people are present in one area/room/zone having combat! EVE is blazing the trail in this regard.

Its not perfect and we all want a TIDI free or lag free experience but for the moment we have to make do I guess. Is it a case that we need technology to catch up? I don't know.

What i do know is that CCP are doing a decent job in my opinion.

I have tin foil hat trained to 5.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#112 - 2013-10-25 14:14:31 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:
You're all nuts.

Argueing with this tenager will lead to nothing.
You keep trying, ignoring reality as usual.


In case you're not nuts, the only other reason why you keep posting seems to be
that you are all slaves of your own egos.

Six pages, soon reaching seven...

I guess both cases are true.

Confirming that I am a slave to my own ego. Smile

I'm a bit surprised that nobody has pointed out how his brilliant solution of capping a system at 2000 pilots is extremely exploitable. Basically it means "if I pack 2000 pilots into a system first I win by default, or better yet if I pack 1500 pilots into a system first I get 500 easy kills and still win by default".

I'm all for giving the lad a higher education, but lets not forget the elementary school basics in the process. Smile

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#113 - 2013-10-25 22:17:15 UTC
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay.
Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!

The rules:
4. Personal attacks are prohibited.

Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#114 - 2013-10-25 22:35:33 UTC
Lugalbandak wrote:
Tidi kills your enemy slowly or yourself but not the game me thinks

No fun allowed

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Dr0000 Maulerant
Union Nanide and Tooling
#115 - 2013-10-26 00:58:28 UTC
Malcanis wrote:


If you want CCP to prioritise improvements to server performance, then make some noise supporting CCP Veritas and his 'Brain In A Box' project.


Is it anything like justin timberlake's "**** in box" project?

Tell me again about how every playstyle you dont engage in "doesn't require any effort" and everyone who does it needs to die in a fire. Be sure to mention about how you tried it once but it was too easy/boring/ethnic-homophobic slur. 
Tetsuo Tsukaya
Perkone
Caldari State
#116 - 2013-10-26 01:00:02 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Solstice Project wrote:
You're all nuts.

Argueing with this tenager will lead to nothing.
You keep trying, ignoring reality as usual.


In case you're not nuts, the only other reason why you keep posting seems to be
that you are all slaves of your own egos.

Six pages, soon reaching seven...

I guess both cases are true.

Confirming that I am a slave to my own ego. Smile

I'm a bit surprised that nobody has pointed out how his brilliant solution of capping a system at 2000 pilots is extremely exploitable. Basically it means "if I pack 2000 pilots into a system first I win by default, or better yet if I pack 1500 pilots into a system first I get 500 easy kills and still win by default".

I'm all for giving the lad a higher education, but lets not forget the elementary school basics in the process. Smile



Yeah seriously. The idea is so blatantly pants on head ******** I'm amazed anyone has actually proposed it.


Mind you, I think it would be cool if brave newbies started running CTAs, jammed a system full of 1,900 Rifters before sov timers and then quickly became the next unstoppable sov nullsec powerhouse.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#117 - 2013-10-26 16:11:40 UTC
Dr0000 Maulerant wrote:
Malcanis wrote:


If you want CCP to prioritise improvements to server performance, then make some noise supporting CCP Veritas and his 'Brain In A Box' project.


Is it anything like justin timberlake's "**** in box" project?


I lack the familiarity with Mr Timberlake's work required to give a qualified opinion.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Evei Shard
Shard Industries
#118 - 2013-10-26 18:56:51 UTC
Is current technology even capable of handling a big battle without something like TiDi being needed? Is the lack of performance an issue of money, or actual limitations to technology?

Profit favors the prepared
Himnos Altar
An Errant Venture
#119 - 2013-10-26 19:30:49 UTC
Not having read this thread completely, and already seeing people say that CCP will "Fix lag"

All I have to say is "LOL!"

You'll never fix lag.

How many pilots can we fit on a system right now under heavy conditions? 2k? 4k?

If CCP found a way to dynamically shift server resources and/or get BETTER servers to handle larger numbers, we'd quickly find the new cap. 5k, 6k, 8k, etc.

Not all alliances would, but certain coalitions and power blocs certainly would. And then we'd STILL have a thread like this complaining about Tidi, and people telling the newbies to shut up because in their day they had to fly to Jita during a wardec with Plexes and monocles in their cargohold with in 10% Tidi BOTH WAYS, and they liked it.
Sahriah BloodStone
No.Mercy
Triumvirate.
#120 - 2013-10-27 00:25:58 UTC
Xain deSleena wrote:
For those that don't know TIDI is short for Time Dialation. It is a part of the game that traps pilots in an an almost frozen like state of gameplay. As an example warping from one gate to another while TIDI is in effect can take several minutes.

TIDI was introduced to EVE to combat the 'lag monster' which brought several non-memorable past battles to a standstill. It was CCP's way of saying hey we killed the lag monster. I had experienced TIDI running at 10% during the battle in FR-B1H that cost Black Legion many super capitals.

Now with several expansions in EVE since TIDI was introduced nobody it seems cares about TIDI or the fact that the lag monster still exists. If the lag monster can never be killed and TIDI is to continue then please add this to the game.

When TIDI is running in a system and falls below 50% or some reasonable amount then block pilots from entering the system until TIDI runs at a reasonable rate.

If I was BL I would be petitioning every super loss since they were trapped at playing the game at a speed of a tortoise while all the rabbits came flooding in from far and wide.



If you're going to suggest a feature you really need to think about how it can be abused before you post.. You're sitting here telling CCP there system is crap, and then suggesting a solution that would cause so much inbalance in any fight that it would ruin the game in Null sec.

It took me less then 1 second to think of a dozen situations where that could be abused.

You also seem to have no comprehension of how the game used to be, compared to how good it is now. Or how reimbursement was never to people who dropped before TIDI

PEOPLE WILL KEEP JOINING BATTLES UNTIL IT LAGS

There is no fix for this, there never will be until the technology gets so good it could handle the entire peak concurrent userbase in one system at one time. CCP are doing a great job and constantly improving things. No other game can have so many people in one area fighting at one time.

Sahriah Bloodstone

No.Mercy // Triumvirate

"Never underestimate your enemy or disrespect its abilities. If you do, you shall become the hunted "