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[Rubicon] Sisters of EVE faction ships

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MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#2141 - 2013-10-25 17:36:59 UTC
Xolve wrote:
Look at all these bads still talking about using Ogres without a drone speed bonus...


Even on my eos I only use heavies under 10km... for me it's not the speed bonus that makes orge good its the tracking bonus

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#2142 - 2013-10-25 17:38:43 UTC
Xolve wrote:
Look at all these bads still talking about using Ogres without a drone speed bonus...

Or using heavy drones at all in lieu of sentries, at least in PvP.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Nam Dnilb
Universal Frog
#2143 - 2013-10-25 17:43:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Nam Dnilb
Sgt Ocker wrote:
If you setup for "exploration" (the role for which the ships was being designed) you only have 3 turrets so have essentially lost more dps. For a ship that was being touted as "versatile and awesome", it has become just a little mediocre ..


Confirming an actual exploration ship will use it's mids for actual exploration gear so the shield-gank option does not really exist for that scenario. For the highs you want probes, possibly drone range and salvager. Having to deal with a split weapon system has curbed my enthusiam for this ship significantly. I mean, not every plex is as easy going as Guristas. I'd really like to give this thing a testdrive in a Blood mindflood site. Lots of NPCs, almost all of them neuting bastards.

But, still nothing seeded to test on the test server. EFTing only gets you so far.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#2144 - 2013-10-25 17:45:41 UTC
Querns wrote:
I believe the thread, lacking any other feedback from CCP, is probably finished. In closing, we can all agree that, despite taking a slight nerf, the Stratios is still a fearsome ship with amazing damage and damage application in a covert droppable package. While it might not be as useful as a gimmick DED complex ship as it was when it did more damage, it's easy to understand that, despite what anyone might have said, the relevancy for one ship at one gimmick DED complex is completely irrelevant, not a design goal, and should be dismissed as the offhand comment that it was instead of being written on stone slabs and carried down a mountain.
How would you apply this awesome damage in a covert dropable package? Heavies are too slow, sentries are ok as long as you are at a range where they are useful then forget about gun dps as your too far away for them to hit anything.
Looking at a fit on EFT and putting that fit to use are 2 very different things, 600+ dps is great, as long as you can apply it.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#2145 - 2013-10-25 17:50:54 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Querns wrote:
I believe the thread, lacking any other feedback from CCP, is probably finished. In closing, we can all agree that, despite taking a slight nerf, the Stratios is still a fearsome ship with amazing damage and damage application in a covert droppable package. While it might not be as useful as a gimmick DED complex ship as it was when it did more damage, it's easy to understand that, despite what anyone might have said, the relevancy for one ship at one gimmick DED complex is completely irrelevant, not a design goal, and should be dismissed as the offhand comment that it was instead of being written on stone slabs and carried down a mountain.
How would you apply this awesome damage in a covert dropable package? Heavies are too slow, sentries are ok as long as you are at a range where they are useful then forget about gun dps as your too far away for them to hit anything.
Looking at a fit on EFT and putting that fit to use are 2 very different things, 600+ dps is great, as long as you can apply it.

The average hotdrop occurs at ranges of about 20km. From there, gardes are tracking extremely well and applying their DDA augmented damage, and medium pulses, loaded with the finest Scorch M frequency crystals on the market, are tracking and applying a decent amount of damage too. I don't know if medium beams are an option on this ship due to the tight power grid, but if they are, they're going to be putting in a lot of work too. If the target somehow manages to waddle out of this range, switch your sentries to Bouncers and continue to enjoy good damage to the edge of your drone control range. This ship stands to completely replace the torpedo bomber in the average covert hotdrop gang.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Vendictus Prime
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2146 - 2013-10-25 18:00:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Vendictus Prime
I suggest that the horrible state of PVE ( I do not do any PVE content ) have something done to make is worth doing before designing awesome new ships targeted to that specific gameplay. The fact is that an extremely small percentage of players will ever use these ships for exploration so, the new bonus changes are irrelevant and useless. Changing ships that has been marketed as Drone ships to be unable to use a full flight of drones is bad design.

The exploration gameplay may have had some work done to it but the whole mini game feature is still horrible and after I experienced it a couple times , I found that mining was more entertaining.
Gabriel Locke
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2147 - 2013-10-25 18:04:54 UTC
Querns wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Querns wrote:
I believe the thread, lacking any other feedback from CCP, is probably finished. In closing, we can all agree that, despite taking a slight nerf, the Stratios is still a fearsome ship with amazing damage and damage application in a covert droppable package. While it might not be as useful as a gimmick DED complex ship as it was when it did more damage, it's easy to understand that, despite what anyone might have said, the relevancy for one ship at one gimmick DED complex is completely irrelevant, not a design goal, and should be dismissed as the offhand comment that it was instead of being written on stone slabs and carried down a mountain.
How would you apply this awesome damage in a covert dropable package? Heavies are too slow, sentries are ok as long as you are at a range where they are useful then forget about gun dps as your too far away for them to hit anything.
Looking at a fit on EFT and putting that fit to use are 2 very different things, 600+ dps is great, as long as you can apply it.

The average hotdrop occurs at ranges of about 20km. From there, gardes are tracking extremely well and applying their DDA augmented damage, and medium pulses, loaded with the finest Scorch M frequency crystals on the market, are tracking and applying a decent amount of damage too. I don't know if medium beams are an option on this ship due to the tight power grid, but if they are, they're going to be putting in a lot of work too. If the target somehow manages to waddle out of this range, switch your sentries to Bouncers and continue to enjoy good damage to the edge of your drone control range. This ship stands to completely replace the torpedo bomber in the average covert hotdrop gang.


I doubt they'll replace bombers as the staple of a hotdrop gang, but they'll provide much needed support in hitting small and medium targets, which hotrop gangs were previously vulnerable to due to torps not applying damage to targets with a small sig. With a few Omnidirectional Tracking Link II's and a target painter in the mids this thing will still apply great damage, even with only 4 sentries.
Rikard Nomm
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2148 - 2013-10-25 18:07:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Rikard Nomm
Querns wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Querns wrote:
I believe the thread, lacking any other feedback from CCP, is probably finished. In closing, we can all agree that, despite taking a slight nerf, the Stratios is still a fearsome ship with amazing damage and damage application in a covert droppable package. While it might not be as useful as a gimmick DED complex ship as it was when it did more damage, it's easy to understand that, despite what anyone might have said, the relevancy for one ship at one gimmick DED complex is completely irrelevant, not a design goal, and should be dismissed as the offhand comment that it was instead of being written on stone slabs and carried down a mountain.
How would you apply this awesome damage in a covert dropable package? Heavies are too slow, sentries are ok as long as you are at a range where they are useful then forget about gun dps as your too far away for them to hit anything.
Looking at a fit on EFT and putting that fit to use are 2 very different things, 600+ dps is great, as long as you can apply it.

The average hotdrop occurs at ranges of about 20km. From there, gardes are tracking extremely well and applying their DDA augmented damage, and medium pulses, loaded with the finest Scorch M frequency crystals on the market, are tracking and applying a decent amount of damage too. I don't know if medium beams are an option on this ship due to the tight power grid, but if they are, they're going to be putting in a lot of work too. If the target somehow manages to waddle out of this range, switch your sentries to Bouncers and continue to enjoy good damage to the edge of your drone control range. This ship stands to completely replace the torpedo bomber in the average covert hotdrop gang.


Youre comparing a t2 frigate ti a pirate faction cruiser. The bomber costs exponentially less.

If this ship was nerfed because of hot drop potential then just remove the cov ops bridging and be done with it. Its an exploration ship
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#2149 - 2013-10-25 18:10:28 UTC
mm.. i would think a cyno would be odd for a exploration covert ship

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#2150 - 2013-10-25 18:11:21 UTC
Rikard Nomm wrote:

Youre comparing a t2 frigate ti a pirate faction cruiser. The bomber costs exponentially less.

If this ship was nerfed because of hot drop potential then just remove the cov ops bridging and be done with it. Its an exploration ship

Well, with the ridiculous, Forex-dwarfing amount of LP that is being generated in Osmon right now, I don't expect the difference to be too much.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#2151 - 2013-10-25 18:17:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Thaddeus Eggeras
Well I have found the SOE battleship that is still needed for these. Let me know what you think. I think with slight adjustments it be perfect! Wouldn't be hard to add the ring or rings onto it either.

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/253/c/0/soe_urania_by_novafox-d2yf3wf.jpg
lllya Kuryaki
Destructive Influence
Northern Coalition.
#2152 - 2013-10-25 18:45:33 UTC
right, ships for bears only :Evil
Cammi Kazi
Perkone
Caldari State
#2153 - 2013-10-25 19:39:27 UTC
I havent tested the ship on the test server so my opinion is purely speculation based on how it looks, maybe it is easier to fit for what i have in mind, it depends how much the armour bonus helps tanking and if i could swap armour rigs for capacitor rigs but if you need armour rigs for tanking then i would change this.


High slots

If you fit a cloak and a probe launcher you are left with 3 turrets with no damage bonus. i would want to use a drone link augmenter as well so i'm left with 2 turrets without a damage bonus.

Mid slots.

If i am going to be doing combat sites i would need to use some kind of cap regen module and i would also need 2 omni tracking links for my drones and a prop mod so i can only use 1 hacking module at best and none if i need to use armour rigs

I would change:

Lose energy turret optimal and swap two highslots for an extra mid and give back the fifth drone this would give me the ability to run all exploration sites without having to refit. The optimal range bonus seems pointless.

Some of you probably have different ideas about how you would use the ship but for me this would be perfect :)
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#2154 - 2013-10-25 19:41:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Batelle
100mbit bandwidth
Lasers
Cap hungry armor tank, No cap reduction on lasers, lasers can't change damage types. Lasers are **** vs 3/5 pirate factions.
No application bonus.
Can't field 5 sentry drones
Covops cloak costs 100 CPU, ship will be cpu hungry when fitting cloak and DLAs
Can't field 5 sentry drones
Armor tank and DDAs competing for 5 low slots
Can't field 5 sentry drones*

*I don't care about 4vs5, I'm just saying with no application/range bonuses and 2 DDAs max, this ship is going to be bad at dps, while still having plenty enough DPS to be an OP pvp ambush ship.*


This ship suddenly looks worthless for actually doing nullsec plexes. I guess it'll still be completely viable for lowsec explo, but beyond that it looks like it'll be used for jumping plex runners more than actually doing plexes.

Querns wrote:
I believe the thread, lacking any other feedback from CCP, is probably finished. In closing, we can all agree that, despite taking a slight nerf, the Stratios is still a fearsome ship with amazing damage and damage application in a covert droppable package. While it might not be as useful as a gimmick DED complex ship as it was when it did more damage, it's easy to understand that, despite what anyone might have said, the relevancy for one ship at one gimmick DED complex is completely irrelevant, not a design goal, and should be dismissed as the offhand comment that it was instead of being written on stone slabs and carried down a mountain.


I more or less agree, except the ship was supposed to be good at exploration, and it was nerfed so it would be less of an OP hotdropping cloaky ambusher. Yet it still works perfectly fine as the latter, and its now arguably pointless in the former role. So hooray, we've introduced a new line of pirate ships specializing in afk cloaking, and instead of the afk cloaker sitting in a low dps ship or only being scary as a result of a blops cyno, we now have something that can sit afk all day and really pose a threat. If this isn't gimmicky gameplay, I don't know what is. And no, I don't think cloaking, afk cloaking, or whatever needed a nerf. But it certainly doesn't need the buff that its getting with this ship.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2155 - 2013-10-25 19:48:17 UTC
Querns wrote:
I believe the thread, lacking any other feedback from CCP, is probably finished. In closing, we can all agree that, despite taking a slight nerf, the Stratios is still a fearsome ship with amazing damage and damage application in a covert droppable package. While it might not be as useful as a gimmick DED complex ship as it was when it did more damage, it's easy to understand that, despite what anyone might have said, the relevancy for one ship at one gimmick DED complex is completely irrelevant, not a design goal, and should be dismissed as the offhand comment that it was instead of being written on stone slabs and carried down a mountain.

So then your contention is that the stated design intent was an offhand comment and thus the ships other aspects toward that focus are thus unnecessary, including the high drone bay to bandwidth ratio, large cargo hold and scan and hacking bonuses? Because if running 4-6/10 DED's and other scanned combat sites wasn't the focus, the cruiser has a lot more it could stand to lose to be "balanced" and could actually stand being removed since we probably don't need a DPS focused cloaky hot dropper.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#2156 - 2013-10-25 20:12:25 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Querns wrote:
I believe the thread, lacking any other feedback from CCP, is probably finished. In closing, we can all agree that, despite taking a slight nerf, the Stratios is still a fearsome ship with amazing damage and damage application in a covert droppable package. While it might not be as useful as a gimmick DED complex ship as it was when it did more damage, it's easy to understand that, despite what anyone might have said, the relevancy for one ship at one gimmick DED complex is completely irrelevant, not a design goal, and should be dismissed as the offhand comment that it was instead of being written on stone slabs and carried down a mountain.

So then your contention is that the stated design intent was an offhand comment and thus the ships other aspects toward that focus are thus unnecessary, including the high drone bay to bandwidth ratio, large cargo hold and scan and hacking bonuses? Because if running 4-6/10 DED's and other scanned combat sites wasn't the focus, the cruiser has a lot more it could stand to lose to be "balanced" and could actually stand being removed since we probably don't need a DPS focused cloaky hot dropper.

Considering that the design intention of higher level DED plexes is to do them in groups, then yes, I can't imagine that CCP is gonna lose any sleep because your projected solo ISK / hour drops in a handful of DED sites that 98% of Eve doesn't even run.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2157 - 2013-10-25 20:14:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Querns wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Querns wrote:
I believe the thread, lacking any other feedback from CCP, is probably finished. In closing, we can all agree that, despite taking a slight nerf, the Stratios is still a fearsome ship with amazing damage and damage application in a covert droppable package. While it might not be as useful as a gimmick DED complex ship as it was when it did more damage, it's easy to understand that, despite what anyone might have said, the relevancy for one ship at one gimmick DED complex is completely irrelevant, not a design goal, and should be dismissed as the offhand comment that it was instead of being written on stone slabs and carried down a mountain.

So then your contention is that the stated design intent was an offhand comment and thus the ships other aspects toward that focus are thus unnecessary, including the high drone bay to bandwidth ratio, large cargo hold and scan and hacking bonuses? Because if running 4-6/10 DED's and other scanned combat sites wasn't the focus, the cruiser has a lot more it could stand to lose to be "balanced" and could actually stand being removed since we probably don't need a DPS focused cloaky hot dropper.

Considering that the design intention of higher level DED plexes is to do them in groups, then yes, I can't imagine that CCP is gonna lose any sleep because your projected solo ISK / hour drops in a handful of DED sites that 98% of Eve doesn't even run.

Would you like to retry addressing my post rather than making up isk/hour arguments I never made to respond to?

Additionally, if the amount of people running the content was of that great of importance and is at the level you state then the ship should never have been conceived in the first place.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#2158 - 2013-10-25 20:20:42 UTC
Querns wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
So then your contention is that the stated design intent was an offhand comment and thus the ships other aspects toward that focus are thus unnecessary, including the high drone bay to bandwidth ratio, large cargo hold and scan and hacking bonuses? Because if running 4-6/10 DED's and other scanned combat sites wasn't the focus, the cruiser has a lot more it could stand to lose to be "balanced" and could actually stand being removed since we probably don't need a DPS focused cloaky hot dropper.

Considering that the design intention of higher level DED plexes is to do them in groups, then yes, I can't imagine that CCP is gonna lose any sleep because your projected solo ISK / hour drops in a handful of DED sites that 98% of Eve doesn't even run.


Its not dropping, because we'll continue to solo them in other ships. Years and years later we have a lot more SP, and a lot more isk. They were designed to be group content way back when everyone sucked. Now only the hardest ones are group content. But you don't see CCP nerfing PVE ships or making the sites harder do you? Instead, the most popular ships for doing these sites got better, and we got stuff like drone damage amplifiers, RIGS, and t3s. Don't play the BS "group content" card.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#2159 - 2013-10-25 20:20:49 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Querns wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
So then your contention is that the stated design intent was an offhand comment and thus the ships other aspects toward that focus are thus unnecessary, including the high drone bay to bandwidth ratio, large cargo hold and scan and hacking bonuses? Because if running 4-6/10 DED's and other scanned combat sites wasn't the focus, the cruiser has a lot more it could stand to lose to be "balanced" and could actually stand being removed since we probably don't need a DPS focused cloaky hot dropper.

Considering that the design intention of higher level DED plexes is to do them in groups, then yes, I can't imagine that CCP is gonna lose any sleep because your projected solo ISK / hour drops in a handful of DED sites that 98% of Eve doesn't even run.

Would you like to retry addressing my post rather than making up isk/hour arguments I never made to respond to?

I did, but if you'd like to pretend that your issues aren't about that then I'd recommend we move the discussion to EVE Fiction where it belongs.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#2160 - 2013-10-25 20:23:46 UTC
Batelle wrote:
Querns wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
So then your contention is that the stated design intent was an offhand comment and thus the ships other aspects toward that focus are thus unnecessary, including the high drone bay to bandwidth ratio, large cargo hold and scan and hacking bonuses? Because if running 4-6/10 DED's and other scanned combat sites wasn't the focus, the cruiser has a lot more it could stand to lose to be "balanced" and could actually stand being removed since we probably don't need a DPS focused cloaky hot dropper.

Considering that the design intention of higher level DED plexes is to do them in groups, then yes, I can't imagine that CCP is gonna lose any sleep because your projected solo ISK / hour drops in a handful of DED sites that 98% of Eve doesn't even run.


Its not dropping, because we'll continue to solo them in other ships. Years and years later we have a lot more SP, and a lot more isk. They were designed to be group content way back when everyone sucked. Now only the hardest ones are group content. But you don't see CCP nerfing PVE ships or making the sites harder do you? Instead, the most popular ships for doing these sites got better, and we got stuff like drone damage amplifiers, RIGS, and t3s. Don't play the BS "group content" card.


This is exactly my point -- the anger being levied here with the constant references to marginal Eve PVE content is directly related to the fact that a ship previously thought to cut the time taken to run these sites is being nerfed below the threshold where changing ships is required.

It could have been worse -- CCP could have made this change after you had purchased your new toys but before you managed to waddle into a DED complex to actually use it. :V

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.