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[Rubicon] Sisters of EVE faction ships

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Maximus Andendare
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#2121 - 2013-10-25 13:56:43 UTC
I think everyone's going on about it only launching 4 drones, which is fine. If the argument is "it doesn't feel right" or "drone ships with less than 5 drones QQ," then that's not a fault of the ship. The ship is going to perform well given its kit. It's an exploration ship. It scans well and can do 6/10s. There's really not an issue here. Stop arguing for 5 drones because its cute. It'll be nice to have less drones to worry about being shot down.

Aside from the optimal range being a bit of a miss (over the laser cap usage reduction for more sustain in the armor tank), the ship is going to perform very well in many areas while being outclassed by more specialized covops for combat scanning or HACs, for example, for better/more capable/faster plexing or pvp.

Stratios is looking to be a very nice ship.

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MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#2122 - 2013-10-25 14:17:27 UTC
Maximus Andendare wrote:
I think everyone's going on about it only launching 4 drones, which is fine. If the argument is "it doesn't feel right" or "drone ships with less than 5 drones QQ," then that's not a fault of the ship. The ship is going to perform well given its kit. It's an exploration ship. It scans well and can do 6/10s. There's really not an issue here. Stop arguing for 5 drones because its cute. It'll be nice to have less drones to worry about being shot down.

Aside from the optimal range being a bit of a miss (over the laser cap usage reduction for more sustain in the armor tank), the ship is going to perform very well in many areas while being outclassed by more specialized covops for combat scanning or HACs, for example, for better/more capable/faster plexing or pvp.

Stratios is looking to be a very nice ship.


what is so wrong with removing one turret hard point and adding back the 5th drone and reducing the drone bonus to 7.5%

thats just a slight increase to overall dps... but 5 drones man!

i mean 5 is soo much better then 4... and i am ocd!!!

clap clap clap.

no but serious 5 do it...

make us happy beavers...

4 at 10% = 6
5 at 7.5% + 6.875

say it with me 5 at 7.5%!

it makes sense... and it feel right.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Dehval
Ascendance Rising
Ascendance..
#2123 - 2013-10-25 14:39:19 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
Maximus Andendare wrote:
I think everyone's going on about it only launching 4 drones, which is fine. If the argument is "it doesn't feel right" or "drone ships with less than 5 drones QQ," then that's not a fault of the ship. The ship is going to perform well given its kit. It's an exploration ship. It scans well and can do 6/10s. There's really not an issue here. Stop arguing for 5 drones because its cute. It'll be nice to have less drones to worry about being shot down.

Aside from the optimal range being a bit of a miss (over the laser cap usage reduction for more sustain in the armor tank), the ship is going to perform very well in many areas while being outclassed by more specialized covops for combat scanning or HACs, for example, for better/more capable/faster plexing or pvp.

Stratios is looking to be a very nice ship.


what is so wrong with removing one turret hard point and adding back the 5th drone and reducing the drone bonus to 7.5%

thats just a slight increase to overall dps... but 5 drones man!

i mean 5 is soo much better then 4... and i am ocd!!!

clap clap clap.

no but serious 5 do it...

make us happy beavers...

4 at 10% = 6
5 at 7.5% + 6.875

say it with me 5 at 7.5%!

it makes sense... and it feel right.

5 at 5% would keep the dps close to what the nerfed version gets and would satisfy all the people who have clinically diagnosed themselves with "OCD". It I don't personally mind 4 drones. Bringing the drone bandwidth back up to 125 with the new reduced bay means you only get 150m3 to fill with spares (assuming two full flights of heavies/sentries) rather than 200m3 of spare drone space. Regardless;

5 at 5% = 6.25 = Sweet spot.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#2124 - 2013-10-25 14:46:49 UTC
Dehval wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
Maximus Andendare wrote:
I think everyone's going on about it only launching 4 drones, which is fine. If the argument is "it doesn't feel right" or "drone ships with less than 5 drones QQ," then that's not a fault of the ship. The ship is going to perform well given its kit. It's an exploration ship. It scans well and can do 6/10s. There's really not an issue here. Stop arguing for 5 drones because its cute. It'll be nice to have less drones to worry about being shot down.

Aside from the optimal range being a bit of a miss (over the laser cap usage reduction for more sustain in the armor tank), the ship is going to perform very well in many areas while being outclassed by more specialized covops for combat scanning or HACs, for example, for better/more capable/faster plexing or pvp.

Stratios is looking to be a very nice ship.


what is so wrong with removing one turret hard point and adding back the 5th drone and reducing the drone bonus to 7.5%

thats just a slight increase to overall dps... but 5 drones man!

i mean 5 is soo much better then 4... and i am ocd!!!

clap clap clap.

no but serious 5 do it...

make us happy beavers...

4 at 10% = 6
5 at 7.5% + 6.875

say it with me 5 at 7.5%!

it makes sense... and it feel right.

5 at 5% would keep the dps close to what the nerfed version gets and would satisfy all the people who have clinically diagnosed themselves with "OCD". It I don't personally mind 4 drones. Bringing the drone bandwidth back up to 125 with the new reduced bay means you only get 150m3 to fill with spares (assuming two full flights of heavies/sentries) rather than 200m3 of spare drone space. Regardless;

5 at 5% = 6.25 = Sweet spot.




or how about 10% for medium and lights and 5% for heavy and sentries?

as a reduction to 5% for medium and light drones would be a heavy handed nerf.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#2125 - 2013-10-25 14:48:15 UTC
erg cz wrote:
Henk Brombir wrote:
IMO the stration should be a drone boat. Increase the drone bandwirth with 25 and drop a gun slot or something


With cloak, probe launcher, drone link augmentor, remote repairer and salvager fitted, you do not have lasers fitted anyway. I can live without salvager or remote repairer, but I do need full flight of sentry drones for ninja WH exploration...

Ambassador Spock wrote:
giving this ship 125 mb/sec + no turrets (maybe only 3 highs?) would have added a unique and interesting ship to the game.


100500 times this. We need DIFFERENT ships, with dfferent gameplay. And that could be one. But not with the castrated bandwidth.



you just want an ishtar that can wark cloaked. Nope.. that is exaclty what they are tryign to avoid.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#2126 - 2013-10-25 14:55:27 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
erg cz wrote:
Henk Brombir wrote:
IMO the stration should be a drone boat. Increase the drone bandwirth with 25 and drop a gun slot or something


With cloak, probe launcher, drone link augmentor, remote repairer and salvager fitted, you do not have lasers fitted anyway. I can live without salvager or remote repairer, but I do need full flight of sentry drones for ninja WH exploration...

Ambassador Spock wrote:
giving this ship 125 mb/sec + no turrets (maybe only 3 highs?) would have added a unique and interesting ship to the game.


100500 times this. We need DIFFERENT ships, with dfferent gameplay. And that could be one. But not with the castrated bandwidth.



you just want an ishtar that can wark cloaked. Nope.. that is exaclty what they are tryign to avoid.


can you point out where they wanted tracking/speed/optimal range bonus for the ship?

just because total damage would be simular does not mean applied damage is.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Dehval
Ascendance Rising
Ascendance..
#2127 - 2013-10-25 15:03:02 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
[snip]
or how about 10% for medium and lights and 5% for heavy and sentries?

as a reduction to 5% for medium and light drones would be a heavy handed nerf.

The problem is that it just starts to complicate things by adding more bonuses to compensate. 10% but only 100bandwidth is the easiest and most direct way to avoid this problem as it nerfs the problem region (Heavies/Sentries) without harming the lower drone classes. Nerfing the damage bonus in any way is going to hurt Lights and Mediums a lot more than it will hurt the others. Making them two separate bonuses will give the ship 6 total bonuses, 7 if you count the ability to use a covert cloak.

I believe people will just need to deal with only having 4 sentries least CCP bloats this ship with even more bonuses to balance everything.
Gabriel Locke
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2128 - 2013-10-25 15:18:21 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
I know there was some voices (yours especially Omnathious) who preferred the 5 virus strength version, but we talked about it quite a bit and the intended trade off with cov ops wasn't really needed because cov ops aren't built around a hacking role. They are meant more as probers and intel gatherers rather than hacking ships, so that means we can boost the SOE ships' roles as explorers without causing problems.

I should also add that the overwhelming majority of people really wanted to see it go to 10 strength.


The Astero still needs an extra highslot.
Henk Brombir
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2129 - 2013-10-25 15:28:10 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
erg cz wrote:
Henk Brombir wrote:
IMO the stration should be a drone boat. Increase the drone bandwirth with 25 and drop a gun slot or something


With cloak, probe launcher, drone link augmentor, remote repairer and salvager fitted, you do not have lasers fitted anyway. I can live without salvager or remote repairer, but I do need full flight of sentry drones for ninja WH exploration...

Ambassador Spock wrote:
giving this ship 125 mb/sec + no turrets (maybe only 3 highs?) would have added a unique and interesting ship to the game.


100500 times this. We need DIFFERENT ships, with dfferent gameplay. And that could be one. But not with the castrated bandwidth.



you just want an ishtar that can wark cloaked. Nope.. that is exaclty what they are tryign to avoid.


Yes, I think the majority wants a Ishtar that can warp cloaked. What's the big difference?
Ambassador Spock
Doomheim
#2130 - 2013-10-25 15:49:58 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
you just want an ishtar that can wark cloaked. Nope.. that is exaclty what they are tryign to avoid.


How many midslots would I have to sacrifice to get the drone tracking/range/speed bonuses of the Ishtar? The Ishtar is still a better drone boat no matter how you look at it.

 --  - Ambassador Spock

"Vulcans never bluff."
Niena Nuamzzar
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#2131 - 2013-10-25 15:55:17 UTC
Ambassador Spock wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
you just want an ishtar that can wark cloaked. Nope.. that is exaclty what they are tryign to avoid.

How many midslots would I have to sacrifice to get the drone tracking/range/speed bonuses of the Ishtar? The Ishtar is still a better drone boat no matter how you look at it.

If Stratios is not just cloaked Ishtar it certainly requires laser turret damage bonus!
Rikard Nomm
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2132 - 2013-10-25 16:10:10 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:


you just want an ishtar that can wark cloaked. Nope.. that is exaclty what they are tryign to avoid.


this is nowhere near a fair comparison.

the isthar has bonuses to
heavy drone tracking, velocity
sentry optimal, tracking
all drone damage, control range

the stratios, even in its previous form could not hold a candle to the damage application or range of an ishtar.

i really feel that giving it back the 125 mb/s and reducing the damage bonus to 7.5% is a perfect balance to the situation here, if were going to listen to all of the EFT warrioring. but the reality is that its paper DPS is nowhere near as applicable as people claim it to be.

people flying the way this ship was intended (as indicated by the virus strength bonus) will be using at MOST 2 turret slots, many only 1 or none. taking away a 5th large drone is a massive blow to the ability run difficult sites.
Sixx Spades
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#2133 - 2013-10-25 16:18:10 UTC
Boy, this is sure starting to look more like a cloaky Prophecy than the droneboat I was excited for.

Using a weapon as a deterrent in a diplomatic situation is only viable when you have proven that you have deployed it in the past and are willing to use it in the future.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#2134 - 2013-10-25 17:00:51 UTC
Just as an FYI -- those of you who are so desperate to bargain your fifth drone back should realize that removing a single laser from the ship is in no way going to make up for the addition of a fifth drone. Given that there is no bonus to medium energy turret damage on this ship, the obvious fitting choice for increasing the Stratios' damage is the Drone Damage Amplifier. As such, adding one drone back and removing one turret adds WAY more damage to the ship than I think is desired. I could see arguments for removing the lasers entirely for the drone, but even then I'm not sure it would keep things in balance, and it would remove some of the "flavor" of the ship as being a Gallente / Amarr hybrid.

Frankly, I would just let it go. The only REAL argument for having the fifth drone is that it means it's not as difficult for people to shoot down your entire flight of drones, but with a 400 m^3 drone bay, I say "WAHHHH." Believe me, I like fives. We here at GBS LOGISTICS AND FIVES SUPPORT [MY 5S] support fives with all of our hearts and souls, but sometimes you just gotta realize that not everything is meant to be in fives.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#2135 - 2013-10-25 17:02:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Sgt Ocker
Maximus Andendare wrote:
I think everyone's going on about it only launching 4 drones, which is fine. If the argument is "it doesn't feel right" or "drone ships with less than 5 drones QQ," then that's not a fault of the ship. The ship is going to perform well given its kit. It's an exploration ship. It scans well and can do 6/10s. There's really not an issue here. Stop arguing for 5 drones because its cute. It'll be nice to have less drones to worry about being shot down.

Aside from the optimal range being a bit of a miss (over the laser cap usage reduction for more sustain in the armor tank), the ship is going to perform very well in many areas while being outclassed by more specialized covops for combat scanning or HACs, for example, for better/more capable/faster plexing or pvp.

Stratios is looking to be a very nice ship.
I doubt you will see the new version able to run 6/10's. Its strong point for being able to run 6/10's was to be its ability to out-range npc's, with that ability lessened and more dps needing to be applied from limited dps turrets. 6/10s will be a push and a hard push at that.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#2136 - 2013-10-25 17:13:41 UTC
Querns wrote:
Just as an FYI -- those of you who are so desperate to bargain your fifth drone back should realize that removing a single laser from the ship is in no way going to make up for the addition of a fifth drone. Given that there is no bonus to medium energy turret damage on this ship, the obvious fitting choice for increasing the Stratios' damage is the Drone Damage Amplifier. As such, adding one drone back and removing one turret adds WAY more damage to the ship than I think is desired. I could see arguments for removing the lasers entirely for the drone, but even then I'm not sure it would keep things in balance, and it would remove some of the "flavor" of the ship as being a Gallente / Amarr hybrid.

Frankly, I would just let it go. The only REAL argument for having the fifth drone is that it means it's not as difficult for people to shoot down your entire flight of drones, but with a 400 m^3 drone bay, I say "WAHHHH." Believe me, I like fives. We here at GBS LOGISTICS AND FIVES SUPPORT [MY 5S] support fives with all of our hearts and souls, but sometimes you just gotta realize that not everything is meant to be in fives.
If you setup for "exploration" (the role for which the ships was being designed) you only have 3 turrets so have essentially lost more dps. For a ship that was being touted as "versatile and awesome", it has become just a little mediocre ..

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#2137 - 2013-10-25 17:17:01 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Querns wrote:
Just as an FYI -- those of you who are so desperate to bargain your fifth drone back should realize that removing a single laser from the ship is in no way going to make up for the addition of a fifth drone. Given that there is no bonus to medium energy turret damage on this ship, the obvious fitting choice for increasing the Stratios' damage is the Drone Damage Amplifier. As such, adding one drone back and removing one turret adds WAY more damage to the ship than I think is desired. I could see arguments for removing the lasers entirely for the drone, but even then I'm not sure it would keep things in balance, and it would remove some of the "flavor" of the ship as being a Gallente / Amarr hybrid.

Frankly, I would just let it go. The only REAL argument for having the fifth drone is that it means it's not as difficult for people to shoot down your entire flight of drones, but with a 400 m^3 drone bay, I say "WAHHHH." Believe me, I like fives. We here at GBS LOGISTICS AND FIVES SUPPORT [MY 5S] support fives with all of our hearts and souls, but sometimes you just gotta realize that not everything is meant to be in fives.
If you setup for "exploration" (the role for which the ships was being designed) you only have 3 turrets so have essentially lost more dps. For a ship that was being touted as "versatile and awesome", it has become just a little mediocre ..

That's kind of what a nerf is supposed to do.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#2138 - 2013-10-25 17:25:07 UTC
I believe the thread, lacking any other feedback from CCP, is probably finished. In closing, we can all agree that, despite taking a slight nerf, the Stratios is still a fearsome ship with amazing damage and damage application in a covert droppable package. While it might not be as useful as a gimmick DED complex ship as it was when it did more damage, it's easy to understand that, despite what anyone might have said, the relevancy for one ship at one gimmick DED complex is completely irrelevant, not a design goal, and should be dismissed as the offhand comment that it was instead of being written on stone slabs and carried down a mountain.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Xolve
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2139 - 2013-10-25 17:28:30 UTC
Look at all these bads still talking about using Ogres without a drone speed bonus...
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#2140 - 2013-10-25 17:35:39 UTC
Querns wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Querns wrote:
Just as an FYI -- those of you who are so desperate to bargain your fifth drone back should realize that removing a single laser from the ship is in no way going to make up for the addition of a fifth drone. Given that there is no bonus to medium energy turret damage on this ship, the obvious fitting choice for increasing the Stratios' damage is the Drone Damage Amplifier. As such, adding one drone back and removing one turret adds WAY more damage to the ship than I think is desired. I could see arguments for removing the lasers entirely for the drone, but even then I'm not sure it would keep things in balance, and it would remove some of the "flavor" of the ship as being a Gallente / Amarr hybrid.

Frankly, I would just let it go. The only REAL argument for having the fifth drone is that it means it's not as difficult for people to shoot down your entire flight of drones, but with a 400 m^3 drone bay, I say "WAHHHH." Believe me, I like fives. We here at GBS LOGISTICS AND FIVES SUPPORT [MY 5S] support fives with all of our hearts and souls, but sometimes you just gotta realize that not everything is meant to be in fives.
If you setup for "exploration" (the role for which the ships was being designed) you only have 3 turrets so have essentially lost more dps. For a ship that was being touted as "versatile and awesome", it has become just a little mediocre ..

That's kind of what a nerf is supposed to do.
But is nerfing the ship out of its intended role before it even gets to the test server really a good way to go?

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.