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August Summit Minutes

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Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#21 - 2013-10-23 17:06:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
Just for sh!ts and giggles: how's it going? :)

Also, I hope those ghost sites dropping materials and blueprints for 1st ever player made implants are not that earthshaking project Jester mentioned in one of his posts some time ago. Please, say that there is some really great feature just around the corner.


I wonder what % of the minutes will be about Rubicon "surprise" stuff and what % is going to be worth the wait.

In case that your maths are as faulty as mine, let me state that we're 27 days to Rubicon and 54 since the summer summit.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#22 - 2013-10-23 19:06:24 UTC
I doubt there is any big surprise stuff waiting for us. I would gamble if there is it is something that will change Eve but in the long run rather than with Rubicon release. Devs seem to constantly hint that what we will get now is just a foundation for future so I guess most of changes are in backend systems that nobody really will notice until they will implement features out of them. Features like new modules, ships, ways of travelling, fleet, corp and asset management, something everybody can click or see or experience by some butterfly effect.

Invalid signature format
mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#23 - 2013-10-24 12:44:57 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
Just for sh!ts and giggles: how's it going? :)

Also, I hope those ghost sites dropping materials and blueprints for 1st ever player made implants are not that earthshaking project Jester mentioned in one of his posts some time ago. Please, say that there is some really great feature just around the corner.


I wonder what % of the minutes will be about Rubicon "surprise" stuff and what % is going to be worth the wait.

In case that your maths are as faulty as mine, let me state that we're 27 days to Rubicon and 54 since the summer summit.


Yeah, we're slower than past CSMs.


Deal with it. Cool

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#24 - 2013-10-24 14:04:33 UTC
mynnna wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
Just for sh!ts and giggles: how's it going? :)

Also, I hope those ghost sites dropping materials and blueprints for 1st ever player made implants are not that earthshaking project Jester mentioned in one of his posts some time ago. Please, say that there is some really great feature just around the corner.


I wonder what % of the minutes will be about Rubicon "surprise" stuff and what % is going to be worth the wait.

In case that your maths are as faulty as mine, let me state that we're 27 days to Rubicon and 54 since the summer summit.


Yeah, we're slower than past CSMs.


Deal with it. Cool


I do know that you can't speed up CCP's side of the minutes and so my criticism was not towards the CSM, but CCP.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
None ofthe Above
#25 - 2013-10-24 21:12:54 UTC  |  Edited by: None ofthe Above
Jester/Ripard has an update here:

http://jestertrek.blogspot.com/2013/10/csm8-status-report-week-twenty-four.html

Complete with a Dinsdale Comment already. Always interesting.

Please do remember it's not done till it's released, so don't forget to bug Dolan. That's an important part of activism.

I do continue to advise to release individual session minutes as they become available/approved, instead of waiting for them all to be done. I believe I noted that was something that was considered/planned this time. I do understand a number of them were done fairly quickly but not yet approved? Sitting in Dolan's inbox?

The minutes are on the verge of becoming of historical interest only. Mitigating factors not withstanding *cough*blinkgate*cough*, the value of the minutes decreases rapidly over time.

CSM has worked with CCP to get them to release information earlier. The dev blogs I think obviated the need for the minutes a bit. And part of the credit for that does go to CSM, but still very frustrating to not have the minutes months now after the summit. Both CSM and CCP need to look at doing better on the minutes though, just embarrassing for both parties.

The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit.
None ofthe Above
#26 - 2013-10-24 21:19:50 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
mynnna wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
Just for sh!ts and giggles: how's it going? :)

Also, I hope those ghost sites dropping materials and blueprints for 1st ever player made implants are not that earthshaking project Jester mentioned in one of his posts some time ago. Please, say that there is some really great feature just around the corner.


I wonder what % of the minutes will be about Rubicon "surprise" stuff and what % is going to be worth the wait.

In case that your maths are as faulty as mine, let me state that we're 27 days to Rubicon and 54 since the summer summit.


Yeah, we're slower than past CSMs.


Deal with it. Cool


I do know that you can't speed up CCP's side of the minutes and so my criticism was not towards the CSM, but CCP.


If they have no influence on this then something is deeply broken.

While it's not entirely under their control, they should be hammering Dolan to get his side done. Tracking down which devs need to sign off on things and poking them to do so. If it is stuck then they need to be speaking up. (Which they are, tentatively, as is probably appropriate at this juncture.)

Not willing to give them a free pass on this entirely. Am willing to agitate on their behalf to CCP.

Free the Minutes CCP! While it still means something. (And get those last couple done would ya CSM?)

The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit.
mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#27 - 2013-10-24 21:33:34 UTC
I don't think I'm too concerned about being "embarrassed" in the eyes of pundits such as yourself, and if that viewpoint extends to others, well, we'll live.

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#28 - 2013-10-24 22:06:34 UTC
Are you concerned about spending time on writing something that has no value for readers? Because if minutes won't see light of day before devs spill all the beans in blogs and F&I threads this is what will happen. So you can hi5 all you want sitting on your high horse of indifference and being all blaze about us but "we are slower, deal with it" is sh!tty response.

Invalid signature format
mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#29 - 2013-10-24 22:38:36 UTC
Minutes haven't really ever been an avenue for leaking or previewing upcoming features, to the best of my knowledge, so I'm not really sure what you think you'd have gotten if we'd delivered them, say, three weeks after the summit and before Rubicon was even announced.

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
None ofthe Above
#30 - 2013-10-24 23:04:11 UTC
mynnna wrote:
I don't think I'm too concerned about being "embarrassed" in the eyes of pundits such as yourself, and if that viewpoint extends to others, well, we'll live.


Apathy about getting your job done noted and will be revisited next election cycle.

And yes, I am dealing with it. I'll be dealing with it more aggressively as time marches on.

The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit.
None ofthe Above
#31 - 2013-10-24 23:09:08 UTC
mynnna wrote:
Minutes haven't really ever been an avenue for leaking or previewing upcoming features, to the best of my knowledge, so I'm not really sure what you think you'd have gotten if we'd delivered them, say, three weeks after the summit and before Rubicon was even announced.


Actually that is an interesting point.

As the devblogs roll out about things covered in sessions less of the minutes are covered by NDA. Coordinating those sessions so they get released soon after the devblogs is worth considering.

This may have already have occured to you all from an insiders perspective. Has that already been a topic of conversation? Coordinating Devblogs and the release of minutes? It honestly seemed to take you folks by surprise, the early release of information and test server deployments. That could just be due to your following the NDA.

The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit.
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#32 - 2013-10-24 23:30:39 UTC
Yeah, take your time, let next CSM finish them.

Invalid signature format
mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#33 - 2013-10-25 00:24:21 UTC
None ofthe Above wrote:
mynnna wrote:
I don't think I'm too concerned about being "embarrassed" in the eyes of pundits such as yourself, and if that viewpoint extends to others, well, we'll live.


Apathy about getting your job done noted and will be revisited next election cycle.


hahaha

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Ahahahhahahahahahhahahahhaahhahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahhaha

There is no eye rolling smiley in the world that is large enough to convey my eye rolliness at this post. Once upon a time you justified hiding behind that alt so that your message "might be considered despite who you are" or some such. Don't worry though - I can't speak for everyone but at this point my opinion would be that any of the fourteen of us would be insane to take you seriously, whatever name you post with.

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
None ofthe Above
#34 - 2013-10-25 01:50:48 UTC
mynnna wrote:
None ofthe Above wrote:
mynnna wrote:
I don't think I'm too concerned about being "embarrassed" in the eyes of pundits such as yourself, and if that viewpoint extends to others, well, we'll live.


Apathy about getting your job done noted and will be revisited next election cycle.


hahaha

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Ahahahhahahahahahhahahahhaahhahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahhaha

There is no eye rolling smiley in the world that is large enough to convey my eye rolliness at this post. Once upon a time you justified hiding behind that alt so that your message "might be considered despite who you are" or some such. Don't worry though - I can't speak for everyone but at this point my opinion would be that any of the fourteen of us would be insane to take you seriously, whatever name you post with.


Glad I could bring you a good laugh today, chuckles.

The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#35 - 2013-10-25 08:45:19 UTC
mynnna wrote:
Minutes haven't really ever been an avenue for leaking or previewing upcoming features, to the best of my knowledge, so I'm not really sure what you think you'd have gotten if we'd delivered them, say, three weeks after the summit and before Rubicon was even announced.


Then your knowledge is seriously faulty. Minutes use(d) to be a way to begin the hype for the upcoming expanions, mainly the next one and hinting into the following ones.

But then, if you think that the minutes are not relevant, that your job writing them and CCP's job reviewing and Ok'ing them is not relevant, and all in all it's a waste... well... you're entitled your opinion and as a Goon you don't need to care **** about what anyone else thinks, yet you're not doing any favor to the CSM, present and future. If what you speak to CCP after traveling to Iceland with our money is not relevant, then you better stay at home and shut up.What?

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Flamespar
WarRavens
#36 - 2013-10-25 10:16:44 UTC
I like reading the minutes for the little glimpses into the discussions that inform the final designs that it provides.
mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#37 - 2013-10-25 12:42:02 UTC  |  Edited by: mynnna
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
mynnna wrote:
Minutes haven't really ever been an avenue for leaking or previewing upcoming features, to the best of my knowledge, so I'm not really sure what you think you'd have gotten if we'd delivered them, say, three weeks after the summit and before Rubicon was even announced.


Then your knowledge is seriously faulty. Minutes use(d) to be a way to begin the hype for the upcoming expanions, mainly the next one and hinting into the following ones.

I suppose we'll all have to settle for hinting into the following ones and getting little glimpses at how features in Rubicon may have started, then.

Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
But then, if you think that the minutes are not relevant, that your job writing them and CCP's job reviewing and Ok'ing them is not relevant, and all in all it's a waste... well... you're entitled your opinion and as a Goon you don't need to care **** about what anyone else thinks, yet you're not doing any favor to the CSM, present and future. If what you speak to CCP after traveling to Iceland with our money is not relevant, then you better stay at home and shut up.What?


There's apparently an evil copy of me about, saying things that I... well... didn't. I mean seriously, where did this "relevance" thing come from? That they're later than years past, yes, that they probably provide less juicy tidbits than you hope for (which may or may not be wrong I guess) yes. That they're irrelevant though?

Question

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
Rengerel en Distel
#38 - 2013-10-25 13:11:45 UTC
A seemingly throw away line about POS having an effect on only a small niche of the community lead to a threadnaught and hopefully a course correction from CCP. The minutes are really the only chance most players will have to hear debates like that straight from the Devs, even if it is after CCP has scrubbed them. From the tone of the F&I threads, most features for Rubicon were already well on their way to being done when the summit took place, so there was already little chance for course corrections with Rubicon.

The minutes now are more of a chance for the players to see how the CSM and CCP interact. Which CSM were vocal, which just let issues go, etc. Which CSM seemed to know what they were talking about, which were just happy to be there, etc.

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#39 - 2013-10-25 13:17:11 UTC
Rengerel en Distel wrote:
From the tone of the F&I threads, most features for Rubicon were already well on their way to being done when the summit took place, so there was already little chance for course corrections with Rubicon.


This is pretty incorrect in quite a few cases and is something I hope shows through in the minutes, actually.

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
Rengerel en Distel
#40 - 2013-10-26 13:36:32 UTC
mynnna wrote:
Rengerel en Distel wrote:
From the tone of the F&I threads, most features for Rubicon were already well on their way to being done when the summit took place, so there was already little chance for course corrections with Rubicon.


This is pretty incorrect in quite a few cases and is something I hope shows through in the minutes, actually.


We all hope so too, though by now, the Dinsdales will just think you altered the minutes after CCP already made the changes.

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
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