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Question about cloaking
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Leo Sagan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2013-09-25 07:51:14 UTC
Hey guys !

I have a newbie question about the cloaking devices (and the MWD cloaking trick I guess).

Every time I enter in a new system with my blockade runner, while I'm still "gate cloaked", I select the next gate and then I hit the "jump through" button. After that, I immediately cloak again. And almost every single time I do it, I notice this :

1) My ship is gate cloaked, on my screen : it is (almost) invisible and is untargetable
2) When I start moving, my ship becomes visible even though I already turned my cloaking device on. It is very short, mayby one second.
3) My ship becomes (almost) invisible again while going into warp.

My questions are :

1) Is this normal or is there a way to stay invisible during the whole process ?
2) Am I targetable during *this* second ? Or is it just a visual effect ?

Thanks in advance for your replies :-)
Marc Callan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2013-09-25 08:55:26 UTC
1) That's a normal effect of the transition from gate-cloak to on-board cloak (I'm assuming you're talking about a covert ops cloak).

2) You're targetable in that second, depending on whether the server "tick" is working for you or against you; they're able to commence lock during that one tick, but you're only in trouble if they're able to achieve lock in the same tick. Which is possible if you're up against a well-organized gate camp with heavily boosted sensors.

"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." - Kurt Vonnegurt
Leo Sagan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2013-09-25 09:09:48 UTC
Thanks for your quick reply, Marc.
So I guess I'm as safe as I can be in my blockade runner, unless I'm facing a "well organized group". Since there is no real reason for such a group to target me, I guess I'm as safe as I can be and just have to hope for the best. Big smile
Marc Callan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-09-25 10:03:05 UTC
Leo Sagan wrote:
Thanks for your quick reply, Marc.
So I guess I'm as safe as I can be in my blockade runner, unless I'm facing a "well organized group". Since there is no real reason for such a group to target me, I guess I'm as safe as I can be and just have to hope for the best. Big smile


Be careful if you're operating in lowsec; those "well-organized groups" may be looking not for you, but for any target of opportunity. I've had the misfortune of getting locked up, pointed, and shredded by a gate camp while in a blockade runner before. (It wouldn't have been half so bad if I hadn't been freighting someone else's stuff as a favor.) If they've got insta-locking setups, figure your odds of slipping the camp are about fifty/fifty. I like to fit a couple of warp core stabs and a nanofiber unless I really need the extra room in the cargohold, just to be sure. That's saved me from at least one gate camp that locked me up.

"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." - Kurt Vonnegurt
Leo Sagan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2013-09-25 10:26:50 UTC
@Marc : actually, what I meant is : "there is no reason for a well organized group to target *me* specifically, but if they happen to be here, they will target me", which is good enough for me. I mean, there is a risk, I accept it and (as long as I don't do any big mistake) if they can get me and my ship, gratz to them.

Your reply is *very* interesting and raises 2 questions for me :

1) About "insta-locking" : I heard about that before and it's puzzling me. Some say there are setups allowing you to "insta-lock" someone while others say that it is "impossible". What do you mean by "insta locking" ? Is it really like : "I click and *poooof* this guy is locked" ? Or rather : "I click and, well, the guy is locked *after* 3 seconds, and most guys are so surprised (because it is not instalock but it is still damn fast) that they just die" ?

2) Overall, judjing by your own experience, would you say that even if there is always a risk, travelling through lowsec with your blockade runner is pretty safe if you're careful, or is it really dangerous ?

Thanks Big smile
Marc Callan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2013-09-25 11:04:31 UTC
1) "Insta-lock" means a sub-1-second lock time, which is entirely possible with interceptors or other ships being buffed by remote sensor boosters. Since the EVE servers work on one-second ticks, a lock time of under 1 second is functionally instantaneous.

2) Generally, the riskiest gates are those at the transition from hisec to lowsec; once you're past that threshold, careful flying in lowsec should get you where you need to go without too much trouble. Null-sec is a different matter entirely, what with warp bubbles.

"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." - Kurt Vonnegurt
Lilliana Stelles
#7 - 2013-09-25 12:13:28 UTC
A scan resolution of 1400mm+ is usually considered "insta-locking" even against a tiny ships. There are cruisers and BCs specifically fit for this in many lowsec gatecamps.

Not a forum alt. 
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#8 - 2013-09-25 13:25:31 UTC
Worth noting is that if your timing on the covops cloak is good, even an "insta-lock" camp will be unable to get you.
Eggs Ackley
#9 - 2013-09-25 16:33:38 UTC
Lilliana Stelles wrote:
A scan resolution of 1400mm+ is usually considered "insta-locking" even against a tiny ships. There are cruisers and BCs specifically fit for this in many lowsec gatecamps.



The good news is that most gate camps are pickup groups full of pent-up teens who never even think of this.
Nerath Naaris
Pink Winged Unicorns for Peace Love and Anarchy
#10 - 2013-09-26 07:42:41 UTC
One other thing: Warping directly gate-to-gate can be potentially dangerous as smartbomb gatecamps can be set up in such a way that you warp directly into them when coming from another gate.
Those are rare, though.
Still, it is safer to take a detour to a point (celestial for example) that is way out of the gate-to-gate line since you will then approach the target gate from a different angle.

Think of a triangle if that helps.

Je suis Paris // Köln // Brüssel // Orlando // Nice // Würzburg, München, Ansbach // Saint-Étienne-du-Rouvray

Je suis Berlin // Fort Lauderdale // London // St. Petersburg // Stockholm

Je suis [?]
Maliandra
Doomheim
#11 - 2013-10-22 04:34:16 UTC
Kahega Amielden wrote:
Worth noting is that if your timing on the covops cloak is good, even an "insta-lock" camp will be unable to get you.
How do you time it though?

No way to see =/
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#12 - 2013-10-22 05:21:31 UTC
Be aware that instalock gatecamps can have a Phobos (a Heavy Interdiction Cruiser) with massive sensor boosting, which can land an 'infinite point' on you. That's a warp scrambling effect that ignores any sources of warp core strength your ship has (inherent WCS on a blockade runner or venture, or WCS from one or more Warp Core Stabilizer modules).

An instalock Phobos can easily tank the gate guns for long enough for their gang to offer a ransom opportunity and/or shred your ship.

The only defense against that situation is to use a scout, something you should always, always do whenever moving a ship and/or cargo worth over a billion ISK through lowsec.


It can of course be fun to send a cheap battleship into a gatecamp like that deliberately (a Hyperion with three local repair modules works a charm; a Slepnir with two XL Ancillary Shield Boosters will do too), and while you are talking to the attackers about a ransom, your six friends jump in and kill everything.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Major Trant
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2013-10-23 15:36:41 UTC
Maliandra wrote:
Kahega Amielden wrote:
Worth noting is that if your timing on the covops cloak is good, even an "insta-lock" camp will be unable to get you.
How do you time it though?

No way to see =/

It is pure luck, you can't choose.
Fighter Maurset
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2013-10-24 09:48:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Fighter Maurset
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:

It can of course be fun to send a cheap battleship into a gatecamp like that deliberately (a Hyperion with three local repair modules works a charm; a Slepnir with two XL Ancillary Shield Boosters will do too), and while you are talking to the attackers about a ransom, your six friends jump in and kill everything.


Leo:
You know when players start refering to battleships as "cheap" (100-200Million) then they got lotsa money.
I dont have. But its still funny hearing how expensive things gets refered to as cheap Smile

However that interesting thing is that when you dont have money, you learn to tweak your setup to be able to manage the job with the limited money you have. Thats a good thing...

If my pilot is certain to face death... I want full ramming speed towards the enemy ship...
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#15 - 2013-10-24 16:30:02 UTC

A hint: The proper order when traveling cloaked is:
1rst: Hit "align" to your destination.
2nd: Hit cloak.
3rd: Hit MWD (if you want/need to).
4th: Hit "warp to" your distination.

Reasoning for the "align" order instead of the "warp to" order: If you are in nullsec, and you hit warp to, and someone puts up a bubble around you... your ship stops moving because the warp gets canceled. This makes you much, much easier to decloak. If you hit align to instead, the bubble going up doesn't stop your ship, leaving you powering out of the bubble towards your destination.

Reasoning for cloaking before activating your prop mod: After you cloak, you have about 2 seconds to turn on any and all modules you want to on your ship. If you hit the mwd first, your sig blooms before you cloak, making it easier to "insta-lock" you.

Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#16 - 2013-10-24 16:36:15 UTC

If trying to move a battleship through nullsec or lowsec safely, fit a cloak and an Micro Jump Drive.

Go through a gate and see hostiles:
a.) Align to a distant celestial.
b.) Cloak
c.) MJD
..... wait 9-12s for the MJD to activate...
..... MJD automatically decloaks you and shoots you forward 100km's towards your destination.
d.) Spam warp to destination and insta-warp as soon as you finish the MJD.

It is possible to be caught if someone powers out to you, decloaks you, and scrams you before the MJD activates.... but this is fairly difficult and unlikely to happen.

You probably don't want to warp gate to gate... as you can use the MJD once every 3 minutes.. and if they chase you, you won't be able to use the trick again. It is better to warp to a moon (at range) and cloak up 3 minutes between running gates if there are hostiles about.
Gallastian Khanid
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2013-10-24 19:36:11 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

A hint: The proper order when traveling cloaked is:
1rst: Hit "align" to your destination.
2nd: Hit cloak.
3rd: Hit MWD (if you want/need to).
4th: Hit "warp to" your distination.

Reasoning for the "align" order instead of the "warp to" order: If you are in nullsec, and you hit warp to, and someone puts up a bubble around you... your ship stops moving because the warp gets canceled. This makes you much, much easier to decloak. If you hit align to instead, the bubble going up doesn't stop your ship, leaving you powering out of the bubble towards your destination.

Reasoning for cloaking before activating your prop mod: After you cloak, you have about 2 seconds to turn on any and all modules you want to on your ship. If you hit the mwd first, your sig blooms before you cloak, making it easier to "insta-lock" you.



He has a Blockade Runner. They can fit covops cloaks. Thus the fine gentleman in this thread can just warp cloaked.

Your advice is correct if your character is flying a T1 industrial or a Deep Space Transport.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#18 - 2013-10-24 21:06:01 UTC
Gallastian Khanid wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

A hint: The proper order when traveling cloaked is:
1rst: Hit "align" to your destination.
2nd: Hit cloak.
3rd: Hit MWD (if you want/need to).
4th: Hit "warp to" your distination.

Reasoning for the "align" order instead of the "warp to" order: If you are in nullsec, and you hit warp to, and someone puts up a bubble around you... your ship stops moving because the warp gets canceled. This makes you much, much easier to decloak. If you hit align to instead, the bubble going up doesn't stop your ship, leaving you powering out of the bubble towards your destination.

Reasoning for cloaking before activating your prop mod: After you cloak, you have about 2 seconds to turn on any and all modules you want to on your ship. If you hit the mwd first, your sig blooms before you cloak, making it easier to "insta-lock" you.



He has a Blockade Runner. They can fit covops cloaks. Thus the fine gentleman in this thread can just warp cloaked.

Your advice is correct if your character is flying a T1 industrial or a Deep Space Transport.


I realize he's flying a blockade runner. My advice is still appropriate.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#19 - 2013-10-24 22:20:45 UTC
Fighter Maurset wrote:
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:

It can of course be fun to send a cheap battleship into a gatecamp like that deliberately (a Hyperion with three local repair modules works a charm; a Slepnir with two XL Ancillary Shield Boosters will do too), and while you are talking to the attackers about a ransom, your six friends jump in and kill everything.


Leo:
You know when players start refering to battleships as "cheap" (100-200Million) then they got lotsa money.
I dont have. But its still funny hearing how expensive things gets refered to as cheap Smile

However that interesting thing is that when you dont have money, you learn to tweak your setup to be able to manage the job with the limited money you have. Thats a good thing...


Hyperions are actually quite cheap because the insurance payout on them is higher than most BSes. While the hull might be 175m or so, the loss is really only 60m + modules or so.

Plus the ship is pretty much indestructible while it has capacitor so it's perfect for use like that.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Tialano Utrigas
Running with Dogs
Out of the Blue.
#20 - 2013-10-25 10:45:06 UTC
Simple latency between peers means that unless you are EXTREMELY slow, although you will be visible on their overviews for a second you will not be targetable.

Instead of instalock this and that that most guys are warning you of, what you actually need to be aware of are fast frigs like Interceptors who will de-cloak and point you before you've aligned out and warped.
That is the biggest killer of cloaky ships. Insta lock doesnt do **** if you are a competent pilot.