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TIDI - killing EVE slowly

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Velicitia
XS Tech
#41 - 2013-10-24 11:18:04 UTC
Signal11th wrote:


Which is great if you are in the fight but not so great if you have no interest in the fight or participation but still have to suffer tidi for 2 hours whilst it goes on and your 10+ jumps away.

Personally Ive got better things to do with my time.


I never said it was a perfect solution ... but better that you're in TiDi than black-screening because of a fight 10 jumps out, isn't it?

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Silvetica Dian
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#42 - 2013-10-24 11:19:19 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Posting in a stealth buff icelandic server hamsters thread.


sexual abuse of hamster is wrong and you should feel bad.

Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
#43 - 2013-10-24 11:23:10 UTC
@Baudolino There is TiDi and there is your own lag. From my experience and some tests this has 2 sources. Network issues which for me are not totally minor, for example my overview was lagging quite a bit from FC calls, and what was really there. And this is backed up from killmails. The second issue is one my wife has on her smaller laptop. It simply falls behind. So we were finished the first fleet fight and had warped to new targets, while she was still in the middle of the first fight. This is a hardware issue.

These were nullsec roams and combined fleet sizes where about 200-300 ships. there was TiDi but don't remeber how much. Couldn't have been worse than 50% and probably closer to 75%.

AKA the scientist.

Death and Glory!

Well fun is also good.
Signal11th
#44 - 2013-10-24 11:32:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Signal11th
Velicitia wrote:
Signal11th wrote:


Which is great if you are in the fight but not so great if you have no interest in the fight or participation but still have to suffer tidi for 2 hours whilst it goes on and your 10+ jumps away.

Personally Ive got better things to do with my time.


I never said it was a perfect solution ... but better that you're in TiDi than black-screening because of a fight 10 jumps out, isn't it?



Not really no. What's the difference? I couldn't do what I had planned so closed the client and did something else so although petty I couldn't play the game to what I think is an acceptable standard because someone else somewhere else was playing his/her game.

God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!
Kalrissia
Temporal Incursion
#45 - 2013-10-24 11:50:42 UTC
I'm wondering what the changes to the Interceptor's will do to large scale battle escalations under TIDI rules. Those fighting will be stuck in a time warp whilst would be tourists, gankers etc can now warp to the fight from nearly anywhere in the map.

Sort of imagining half the online playerbase converging and colliding in three of four systems whilst the other half wonder what the fuss is about and then continue to lock the next roid and carry on watching SpongeBob and Squarepants.

However, I do prefer TIDI.



Note: Odd as I typed this that the words gankers, etc, playerbase and roid all come up with red lines but SpongeBob doesn't.
Tyrton
Imbecile MIiss Managment and Disasters
Intergalactic Interstellar Interns
#46 - 2013-10-24 12:10:05 UTC
Dalmont Delantee wrote:
Oh god someone doesn't quite understand what tidi is and why its there.

Please can CCP just lock his client up for 2 hours then make him appear in a station.

The fight to stop lag is still ongoing, tidi just helps that.



ThisBig smileBig smileBig smileBig smileBig smileBig smileBig smileBig smile
Ka'Narlist
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#47 - 2013-10-24 12:45:57 UTC
I'm really wondering how many of those snotty people replying here ahve fought in a huge fleet battle with max TiDi and Lag

So I'll just quote myself from antoher thread about this.
Ka'Narlist wrote:

Sure TiDi is much better as random lags where the people first on grid or in system can shoot the ones still loading and its what makes such huge fights possible.

But it can't be the solution, only a step to the solution. Because fighting in max. TiDi sucks, it really sucks like hell and it drags fights which would be resolved under normal circumstances in half an hour over hours and hours where you have to sit there waiting that your mod cycled down to click it and wait for another 10 or 15 minutes to click it again.

Yes hardware has its limits but if one server node can't handle such a huge fight than two should do it or a whole group of them. If Eve currently can't let the ongoings in a system or on a grid get handled by a servercluster this should be the direction to develop it further. I know it will not be easy or quick or cheap but imho that is the direction ccp has to take if they really want to brag about being able to handle huge space fights.

I really hope ccp doesn't consider TiDi as their end solution, but is constantly looking for better solutions.
Baaldor
Blackwater USA Inc.
Deepwater Hooligans
#48 - 2013-10-24 13:06:57 UTC
Ka'Narlist wrote:
I'm really wondering how many of those snotty people replying here ahve fought in a huge fleet battle with max TiDi and Lag

So I'll just quote myself from antoher thread about this.
Ka'Narlist wrote:

Sure TiDi is much better as random lags where the people first on grid or in system can shoot the ones still loading and its what makes such huge fights possible.

But it can't be the solution, only a step to the solution. Because fighting in max. TiDi sucks, it really sucks like hell and it drags fights which would be resolved under normal circumstances in half an hour over hours and hours where you have to sit there waiting that your mod cycled down to click it and wait for another 10 or 15 minutes to click it again.

Yes hardware has its limits but if one server node can't handle such a huge fight than two should do it or a whole group of them. If Eve currently can't let the ongoings in a system or on a grid get handled by a servercluster this should be the direction to develop it further. I know it will not be easy or quick or cheap but imho that is the direction ccp has to take if they really want to brag about being able to handle huge space fights.

I really hope ccp doesn't consider TiDi as their end solution, but is constantly looking for better solutions.



I am wondering how many people have actually experienced soul crushing lag prior to TIDI.

Because there were epic battles fought in slide show mode and we seem to figure out how to make it work. v0v


Other than that, the best method to deal with it....get naked, Cheetos, ben bag chair, 420 and rub one out, then hang with your mates on coms linkng NSFW in Jabber.

Xavier Higdon
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#49 - 2013-10-24 13:07:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Xavier Higdon
Sorry, double post.
Xavier Higdon
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#50 - 2013-10-24 13:08:02 UTC
Ka'Narlist wrote:
I'm really wondering how many of those snotty people replying here ahve fought in a huge fleet battle with max TiDi and Lag

So I'll just quote myself from antoher thread about this.
Ka'Narlist wrote:

Sure TiDi is much better as random lags where the people first on grid or in system can shoot the ones still loading and its what makes such huge fights possible.

But it can't be the solution, only a step to the solution. Because fighting in max. TiDi sucks, it really sucks like hell and it drags fights which would be resolved under normal circumstances in half an hour over hours and hours where you have to sit there waiting that your mod cycled down to click it and wait for another 10 or 15 minutes to click it again.

Yes hardware has its limits but if one server node can't handle such a huge fight than two should do it or a whole group of them. If Eve currently can't let the ongoings in a system or on a grid get handled by a servercluster this should be the direction to develop it further. I know it will not be easy or quick or cheap but imho that is the direction ccp has to take if they really want to brag about being able to handle huge space fights.

I really hope ccp doesn't consider TiDi as their end solution, but is constantly looking for better solutions.



Of course CCP is constantly working to improve this game. You call others snotty, and yet here you are demanding more without knowing a thing about what more requires. You, as well as most others that think EVE is about the CFC calling a CTA because someone touched them in a naughty place, seem to believe CCP should only focus on improving hardware so that you can blob harder. And then you don't even have the courtesy to find out what it would take to do so. They aren't running a laptop. A little more RAM or a better graphics card won't cut it. It would take more than their yearly income to even begin creating a system without lag, and in doing so they would alienate all but a fraction of their playerbase. So tell me again who the snotty people are? The ones that are thankful to CCP for working hard to alleviate lag, or you and your friends demanding they drop everything else and do what you want?
Alduin666 Shikkoken
Doomheim
#51 - 2013-10-24 13:09:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Alduin666 Shikkoken
Would you rather have a chance of extracting ships at 10% speed or black screen with your 15 minute logoff timer still in effect? Decisions decisions.

Honor is a fools prize. [I]Glory is of no use to the dead.[/I]

Be a man! Post with your main! ~Vas'Avi Community Manager
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#52 - 2013-10-24 13:15:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Ramona McCandless
Once
There was this kid who


Got into a fleet fight
And couldnt come to sku-wel


and when
He finally made it

His
Ship

Had turned from a rifter
intoapod


He couldnt quite explain it
He'd always just flowwwwwn
there


mmmmm mmmm mmmm mmmm
mmmmm mmmm mmmm mmmm

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Trii Seo
Goonswarm Federation
#53 - 2013-10-24 13:21:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Trii Seo
TiDi is actually quite the simple, yet elegant solution to the lag problem without enforcing insane population caps. I'm not talking 2-3k population caps, I'm talking 100-200.

I've ran into one instance where TiDi couldn't hold back the lag: 6VDT. Modules started to bug out, with a Covert Cyno lapsing for 2-3 times its cycle on a single charge for instance. Compared to many battles where it did succesfully kill the lag, I'd say on that mission CCP can hang a big "mission accomplished" banner and drink some beer out of cups. Naturally, cups made out of Units of Lag - so dense, all matter seems to slow down around them!

Proud pilot of the Imperium

Arek'Jaalan: Heliograph
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#54 - 2013-10-24 14:51:07 UTC
Xain deSleena wrote:
For those that don't know TIDI is short for Time Dialation. It is a part of the game that traps pilots in an an almost frozen like state of gameplay. As an example warping from one gate to another while TIDI is in effect can take several minutes.

TIDI was introduced to EVE to combat the 'lag monster' which brought several non-memorable past battles to a standstill. It was CCP's way of saying hey we killed the lag monster. I had experienced TIDI running at 10% during the battle in FR-B1H that cost Black Legion many super capitals.

Now with several expansions in EVE since TIDI was introduced nobody it seems cares about TIDI or the fact that the lag monster still exists. If the lag monster can never be killed and TIDI is to continue then please add this to the game.

When TIDI is running in a system and falls below 50% or some reasonable amount then block pilots from entering the system until TIDI runs at a reasonable rate.

If I was BL I would be petitioning every super loss since they were trapped at playing the game at a speed of a tortoise while all the rabbits came flooding in from far and wide.


Black Legion were not slow to use the exact same effect to kill goon supers in Akasai.

Population caps are far, far too easy to metagame.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#55 - 2013-10-24 14:53:55 UTC
I recommend that people who are concerned by lag (since lag is actually the problem here, not TiDi) watch Veritas' presentation at this year's fanfest.

tl;dr: The "easy wins" vs the lag monster have been won. The remaining wins are going to be much harder (and will therefore take longer), but there are still some big wins available.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Hinata' Hyuga
WillPower and Courage Corporation
#56 - 2013-10-24 15:10:27 UTC
Snakebyte Jack wrote:
At least its easier to take a 'ninja-p i s s' under Tidi.


Not to mention Ninja Dinner, Ninja Dish Washiing, Ninja Laundry Unloading, Ninja Dog Walking, and a Ninja Nap.
No Means No
meh fackit
#57 - 2013-10-24 15:13:15 UTC
CCP uses tidi cause theres no broadband internet in iceland.
Treborr MintingtonJr
S.N.O.T
S.N.O.T.
#58 - 2013-10-24 15:18:55 UTC
TIDI is awesome, it means I can fight, go to the toilet and cook dinner (with greater success) at the same time. Might even have time to walk to Co-op and back :-) huzzah
Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#59 - 2013-10-24 15:25:39 UTC
Treborr MintingtonJr wrote:
TIDI is awesome, it means I can fight, go to the toilet and cook dinner (with greater success) at the same time. Might even have time to walk to Co-op and back :-) huzzah

Just wait until you discover the wonders of drone assist fleets.
Hinata' Hyuga
WillPower and Courage Corporation
#60 - 2013-10-24 15:26:00 UTC
Treborr MintingtonJr wrote:
TIDI is awesome, it means I can fight, go to the toilet and cook dinner (with greater success) at the same time. Might even have time to walk to Co-op and back :-) huzzah


TiDi = Time I Do Important-things-I've-been-procrastonating