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Drug Booster Balancing issues

First post First post
Author
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#21 - 2011-11-16 04:25:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Hans Jagerblitzen
I wanted to add that I think the current system incorporates risk and reward, one of the core elements of EvE's game design. The risk of harm can be managed with skills and practical knowledge (like most things in EvE) but never completely eliminated. Many pilots still choose to use drugs knowing that they don't have all the support skills or implants, and are willing to take the risk anyways.

The mystique that surrounded boosters, their illegality, the potential for side effects (even if minimal in some situations) and the psychological effect it has on pilots ( I know many that superstitiously "refuse to abuse") is part of what makes them fun and immersive. It's a huge loss to that fun to just wipe away all risk of harm, just to see them used more often.

This just smells a little too much like forcing a feature "iteration" just to pad a list of fixes for the winter expansion. I think this is a great gameplay element to explore and develop, but to my knowledge (correct my if I'm wrong) fixing boosters isn't really high up on the player's gimme list, so I'd much rather see this given some proper balancing attention rather than rushed out the door just because.

The side effects could be mixed up a little on the boosters, making more combinations viable, or allowing for multiple use. The addiction and hangover ideas mentioned in this thread would be rad too, and would preserve the important element of risk (or at least perceived risk). But please, lets see boosters truly worked and expanded upon on rather than being simply gutted for the sake of change.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary

Grukni
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#22 - 2011-11-16 08:38:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Grukni
Zi'Boo wrote:
One proposal that was mentioned ages ago and I liked was for boosters to separate the bonus time from the penalty time and also include some form of addiction.

So for example your booster gives you 20% more repping for 2 hours, but for the 24 hours after it wears off you suffer some penalty (either to repping or maybe to some other functions like it is today).

It was also suggested that you can delay that hangover by taking another booster, but the next hangover will be even stronger and possibly longer.

What could also be done is to reduce the effectiveness of the hangover killing booster. So say first one gives you 20%, but if you take another one of the same type while your under the penalty it only gives you 17% or 15% and the next one even less.

Obviously it would have to be balanced so that you can't just take a booster for your play time that day, then log off and come back fresh the next day and take another booster for the whole session.


Very smart, indeed. I would like to see this.

Removing the side effects is a bad thing for the EVE underworld. Side effects should not go, but may be nerfed (so that skills have a greater effect in reducing side effects) or changed somewhat the mechanics as you propose.

I guess CCP wants a more widespread use of boosters so they can introduce the new game mechanics for smuggling they talked about at the fanfest. I've always had a possitive attitude to a boost to the underworld part of EVE (were WiS could play a role)
S0NFANNA
Cause For Concern
#23 - 2011-11-16 19:06:32 UTC
Zendoren wrote:
Would like a dev's response on this.

Also, what will i do with my lo-grade Edge implants now ???


This is a good point, I checked on SiSi, the low-grade edge implants still give a reduction to booster side effects (kind of pointless if there are no side effects)

Please CCP give us a response on this, these changes need more consultation and consideration please!
TrollFace TrololMcFluf
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#24 - 2011-11-16 19:21:55 UTC
The amount of tears in this thread is epic "not worth using them anymore" lol what a pathetic little carebear

BUT on a more serious note the EDGE implants really need to be looked at on sisi other than being expensive to buy it appears that nothing has been done to change there effects
Daedalus Arcova
The Scope
#25 - 2011-11-16 19:57:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Daedalus Arcova
From a Wikipedia page on banned video games:
Quote:
Content that contains ... the promotion of illegal drug use would still lead to games being refused classification [in Australia].

Perhaps my tinfoilhattery wasn't so wide of the mark! Lol

Assuming Australian video game classification laws don't come into it, CCP really ought to stop and think about this. There's something very cool about the underworld nature of boosters.

While the new boosters will still be worth using, the 'dangerous' ones we know and love are just so much more fun. Surely that's the most important thing?
Daedalus Arcova
The Scope
#26 - 2011-11-16 19:57:47 UTC
Fix the ******* forums.
Akturous
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2011-11-17 01:31:39 UTC
TrollFace TrololMcFluf wrote:
The amount of tears in this thread is epic "not worth using them anymore" lol what a pathetic little carebear

BUT on a more serious note the EDGE implants really need to be looked at on sisi other than being expensive to buy it appears that nothing has been done to change there effects


...Yes....carebear.....Add some content you ******* trollface. Better still use a real character on the forums.

Vote Item Heck One for CSM8

Nikuno
Atomic Heroes
#28 - 2011-11-17 10:20:58 UTC
EDGE IMPLANTS



Come on CCP, still no response as to what you're going to do with these while you wreck boosters!
Svennig
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#29 - 2011-11-17 10:37:22 UTC
I don't use boosters, but these changes seem a bit harsh. Boosters were hard to come by before, and are now not worth buying, so I can see them dying out.
AkiRoss
Rez Corporation
#30 - 2011-11-17 13:22:50 UTC  |  Edited by: AkiRoss
I am sorry but, the new version of Boosters have slightly the same bonuses than preceding (with skill lvl V). So they are far from being useless ... same bonus, no malus !

The only valid issue pointed there is about the Edge Set, not yet updated :)
Daedalus Arcova
The Scope
#31 - 2011-11-17 13:45:46 UTC
AkiRoss wrote:
I am sorry but, the new version of Boosters have slightly the same bonuses than preceding (with skill lvl V). So they are far from being useless ... same bonus, no malus !


But it's not as much fun. I like the risk of side-effects whenever I use boosters.
AkiRoss
Rez Corporation
#32 - 2011-11-17 13:55:47 UTC
EvE is not fun. EvE is real Twisted
S0NFANNA
Cause For Concern
#33 - 2011-11-17 16:06:45 UTC
AkiRoss wrote:
I am sorry but, the new version of Boosters have slightly the same bonuses than preceding (with skill lvl V). So they are far from being useless ... same bonus, no malus !

The only valid issue pointed there is about the Edge Set, not yet updated :)


This is not true, there is a dramatic reduction in the bonuses from the new boosters even with level 5 skills.
Level 5 skills and a standard blue pill will reward a 12.5% bonus to shield boost, but it used to give 20% (7.5% is a signigicant reduction). Other boosters are similarly affected.
Zhula Guixgrixks
Increasing Success by Lowering Expectations
#34 - 2011-11-17 16:39:45 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
I wanted to add that I think the current system incorporates risk and reward, one of the core elements of EvE's game design. ....
The mystique that surrounded boosters, their illegality, the potential for side effects (even if minimal in some situations) and the psychological effect it has on pilots ( I know many that superstitiously "refuse to abuse") is part of what makes them fun and immersive. It's a huge loss to that fun to just wipe away all risk of harm, just to see them used more often.
.


Good points. Revisiting boosters is a good idea, but risk vs. reward is not in place anymore with side effects removed.
Boosters will just become mandatory for every PvP and even PvE situation. No thrill, no risk, just standard & boring stuff.

CCP, please keep those side effects in place.

0ccupational Hazzard --> check out the true love story 

Emperor Salazar
Remote Soviet Industries
Insidious Empire
#35 - 2011-11-17 16:59:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Emperor Salazar
So lets recap.

Your logic is:

1. Remove side effects
2. Decrease potential boost
3. Increase potential duration

Others have already said why this is complete and utter failure so I won't get into that. You guys need to get your heads out of your as*ses and redo this.

Here ismy proposal if you aren't planning a whole revamp, but rather stat changes. For the purpose of this, I will use the current tranquility skill names.

1. Do not remove side effects. Simply make it so that you can only get 1 side effect. This would work as such: Consume booster, game runs your skills/implants percentage to see if you get a side effect. If you do, game runs random chance of which potential side effect you get. No more of this 0-4 potential side effect crap. THIS RIGHT HERE IS THE BIGGEST PROBLEM WITH BOOSTERS RIGHT NOW.

2. Decrease current side effect chance of improved and strong drugs by 5%. This would mean standard (20%), improved (25%), strong (30%)

3. Duration is fine, leave it as is. 1 hour at level 5 for a rank 1 skill is quite good.

Revamp wise, you guys need to reevaluate how many bpcs for boosters have dropped and are out there versus how much gas is actually mined and figure something out. In about 2 weeks in Fountain I managed to get about 30x 50-run standard exile bpcs. Now that sounds great, but the amount of gas needed to produce that is ridiculous. On top of that, pushing 1500 boosters is lol. Either reduce build costs, reduce production runs or make harvesting more efficient (reduce size of gas maybe?).

Also, you realize no one knows about boosters right? And by no one I mean its like 10% of us that actually know they exist/have potential. You need to add some civilian/synth boosters to tutorial missions.

K. Now please go back to the drawing board.
St Mio
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#36 - 2011-11-17 17:02:44 UTC
Ferox hull variation with gas mining bonuses please, thanks ♥
Ellianna Angel
Doomheim
#37 - 2011-11-17 17:06:43 UTC
Also, you need to change the Hardwiring - Eifyr and Co. 'Alchemist' XA-1 & XA-2 if you intent to go through with these changes.
Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#38 - 2011-11-17 17:07:58 UTC


I think there needs to be risk Vs Reward. I know CCP wants to push the booster market for various reasons and see the outcome for when it comes to expanding them as part of the gameplay - but the issue right now is that they are going too far in "Decriminalizing" boosters.


They need to look at where else they can put penalties that still includes RISK but not necessarily in the form of the specific penalties being presented.


I think this needs further discussion between the DEVELOPERS and the Players!


Can we get Dev response here?

Where I am.

Jiji Hamin
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2011-11-17 18:43:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Jiji Hamin
They should make it so you can make boosters more easily in lowsec.
Zircon Dasher
#40 - 2011-11-17 18:50:00 UTC
Jiji Hamin wrote:
They should make it so you can make boosters more easily in lowsec.


It already is relatively easy. It is just a tedious process.

Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'.