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Dropping Mac support?

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Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#21 - 2013-10-09 19:35:21 UTC
NexusWatcher wrote:
Dersen Lowery wrote:
Marthe Friggin Stewart wrote:
Anyone heard about twitch.tv support built into client.

How will this work on a Mac?


*omitted*

However, DX11 will be on by default "where supported" in the Rubicon update. When will Cedega offer that support? More to the point, when will it offer that support reliably?


This. Another reason CCP will more than likely drop support.

OpenGL should be more widely supported since the team-up with STEAM (who also supports OpenGL), but it seems to me they more than likely will not support it, again, due to the "big fish" analogy with the larger player base on Windows.

OS X uses openGL; why not continue with it (since Windows can us it too) when the benchmarks between OpenGL and Directx are pretty much on par and is more *open source* in a sense instead of tied down like Directx is. Just my 2 cents.


At least for the time being, we have the answer I expected: Macs will continue to run DX9. However, since the goal for Rubicon is simply to have a DX11 client that performs at least as well as the DX9 client, there's no loss... yet.

CCP Seagull is, or at least was, a Mac user. We have two Mac users on CSM, including the chair. Nevertheless, I think the tipping point will be portables. CCP is hilariously late to this party, contemplating fitting tools and API access apps just as tablets crest the performance point where they can run EVE Online itself (if not at max setttings). In the portable OS realm, it's OpenGL as far as the eye can see. That may be what finally tips them over.

In the mean time, part of me can understand why they're not eager to learn a new API and rewrite a whole huge layer of the game as they learn a new API and rewrite the same whole huge layer, and write a replacement for the POS code, and work on who knows how many other baseline parts of the game. Nevertheless, I don't believe it's a question of whether, just a question of when.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!
Bawb Zennshinagas
Zennshinagas LLC.
#22 - 2013-10-09 20:54:11 UTC
GM Karidor wrote:
It would be quite interesting to know where you heard this rumor from exactly, because it would be just that, a rumor.

To clarify this:
I have been asking around a bit and no, we have no plans whatsoever regarding dropping the support for Macs at this point in time or in the near future. There have been some changes to the minimum system requirements not too long ago which resulted in some older Macs falling out of the supported hardware spectrum (see https://community.eveonline.com/support/knowledge-base/article.aspx?articleId=124 for the current requirements), though.



SO when is the OS X 10.9 patch coming? :)

I can only dream of the day my maxed out retina macbook pro can actually play this game without freezing up constantly.
Ghost Mori
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2013-10-12 00:40:11 UTC
Dropping OSX support would be simply crazy. They will lost so much proffit. I myself use a few computers and a few different O/S, but my Mac is by far the most powerful, hence I use it for EVE. This would also personally cost me buying a Windows games machine. Not happy.
Xania Zennshinagas
Zennshinagas LLC.
#24 - 2013-10-20 07:16:48 UTC
GM Karidor wrote:
It would be quite interesting to know where you heard this rumor from exactly, because it would be just that, a rumor.

To clarify this:
I have been asking around a bit and no, we have no plans whatsoever regarding dropping the support for Macs at this point in time or in the near future. There have been some changes to the minimum system requirements not too long ago which resulted in some older Macs falling out of the supported hardware spectrum (see https://community.eveonline.com/support/knowledge-base/article.aspx?articleId=124 for the current requirements), though.



So why has a longstanding bug that has not only been confirmed for devs, but climbed to 27 pages of users affected, and makes the game entirely unplayable on some machines still not been fixed?

Why has there not been a patch for OS X 10.9 which is coming on tuesday?

Why does the sticky still say retribution 1.1?

Why does my $2800 maxed out retina macbook pro struggle to even play this game?


Mac support may not be "officially" dropped, but as far as most of us are concerned, its not up to par and many of us can't even play the game. Is that not the same as dropping support? You could atleast do us the honor and just tell us we're never going to see a fix.
Arthur Aihaken
Kenshin Academia.
Kenshin Shogunate.
#25 - 2013-10-23 11:23:10 UTC
You can't drop what doesn't exist in the first place...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Clendestined
Perkone
Caldari State
#26 - 2013-10-23 15:44:16 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
You can't drop what doesn't exist in the first place...



Get out of here and go troll your Marauder thread. "Doesn't exist," you say. Leaps and bounds tells you how sad and little your mind ideally is if you keep thinking this one-track mind method. Thinking Windows is the only way to go? Sorry to say, it's not.
seth Hendar
I love you miners
#27 - 2013-10-24 14:25:32 UTC
Dersen Lowery wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
Communications from Devs on this forum has been very very spotty. Subscriber after subscriber posts problems and pleads for a CCP response, and none comes. Its like they do not care. And that is a sign that they are planning on dropping support.


What's even more amazing is that we now have two Mac using CSMs--Trebor and Ali--and apart from occasional (and welcome!) appearances by, e.g., CCP Konflikt, it's definitely not a first-rate experience. It's kind of sad to have to chose between mediocre games with brilliant Mac clients (WoW, GW2) and a really good game with a mediocre client (EVE).

On top of that, since OS X is a UNIX-a-like, it even ships with a robust Python engine. Oh, well. I suppose there's nothing for it but to hope that, with so much attention turned to overhauling EVE's guts, someone figures that writing an OpenGL layer for EVE is cheaper and more future-proof[1] than taking up developer time trying to get their client to work with a brittle piece of middleware that they don't control (Cider).

[1] All mobile platforms use OpenGL


actually most mobile platfrom use openGL ES, wich is NOT OpenGL but a lighter version of OpenGL.

but i do agrre, even if i'm not playing eve on mac, that an OpenGL would be better for maintenance and would possibly open a linux version.
Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#28 - 2013-10-24 15:08:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Dersen Lowery
seth Hendar wrote:
actually most mobile platfrom use openGL ES, wich is NOT OpenGL but a lighter version of OpenGL.

but i do agrre, even if i'm not playing eve on mac, that an OpenGL would be better for maintenance and would possibly open a linux version.


As kith and kin, it's a lot closer to full OpenGL than DirectX is. I'm not sure whether it would be easier to do a full OpenGL version and cut down to OpenGL ES for portables, or to do a full OpenGL ES version than then scale it up for personal computers.

OpenGL ES 3.0 closes a number of important gaps, and it's shipping in iOS 7.

The change would allow for a full, no-excuses Linux version, which I support wholeheartedly.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!
Arthur Aihaken
Kenshin Academia.
Kenshin Shogunate.
#29 - 2013-10-26 18:50:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Clendestined wrote:
Get out of here and go troll your Marauder thread. "Doesn't exist," you say. Leaps and bounds tells you how sad and little your mind ideally is if you keep thinking this one-track mind method. Thinking Windows is the only way to go? Sorry to say, it's not.

Get bent. I run on a Mac, and have reported a never-ending series of bugs to CCP directly - all of which have gone completely unacknowledged. For EVE Mac support to exist, it has to be there in the first place. And it's non-existent. Or do I have to cite the corrupted icon thread as case-in-point?

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Thoregon Aubaris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2013-11-04 20:15:11 UTC
Opening the map inside a station crashes the client (since dec 2012!). I wasn't the only one with this problem but dev's or gm's never even replied to the thread. They will ignore such problems as long as possible. "Deal with it or change to windows." That's what they think, and it shows.
Ristlin Wakefield
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#31 - 2013-11-08 19:18:20 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
As far as I can tell is a assumption based on two facts:

Macs have a freeze bug that has been present for months. Absolutely no work has been done on it. It sure looks like CCP has no plans to address this problem, which leads to the assumption that CCP has no plans to support the Mac at all. Its like CCP is saying "Why fix that problem when we are planning on dropping support?"

Why would CCP not fix a problem that, to some level, effects every Mac user and is resulting in lost subscriptions if they are planning on continuing support?

Communications from Devs on this forum has been very very spotty. Subscriber after subscriber posts problems and pleads for a CCP response, and none comes. Its like they do not care. And that is a sign that they are planning on dropping support.


Indeed, this freeze bug has been stupid. I'm on a pretty beefed up Mac that can't seem to run EVE even on low-settings without dying. I've lost several ships now to this stupid freeze bug. Looks like I have no choice but to use Bootcamp and that's already a suboptimal choice...sigh.

I have a lover, her name is EVE. I see her every night and all she asks in return is that I have a pilot's license.
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