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CNR vs Rubicon Golem
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Ira Kin Mayaki
Perkone
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-10-22 19:53:26 UTC
Simple question for a Level 4 Raven class ship. Which one will be better when Rubicon comes out?

I been reading lot of marauder re balancing that comes with Rubicon expansion but nothing is clear. I am 20 days away from getting a golem but then again I could stick with my CNR and spend those 20 days training something else.

I know there is no solid info on what will happen but so far what do you guys think? Stick with CNR or wait for this "new" Golem?

[u]Eve Anime channel: Anime Arigatou[/u]
Apex Bex
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#2 - 2013-10-22 20:15:46 UTC
I've been playing around with the Golem on Sisi [when they had a Rubicon build going] and it's pretty damn powerful.

With Bastion active my Torps go to around 44KM's for a total of about 1400 DPS, Javelins out to 80KM's for about 950 DPS and a >1400 DPS tank [set up for Angels].

With the ability to MJD every minute the range of Torps won't be an issue. If the targets do out range the Rage Torps, switch to Javelins.

I seriously doubt the RNI can compete.

[Golem, Rubicon]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Ballistic Control System II

Large Micro Jump Drive
Gistum A-Type Medium Shield Booster
Gist C-Type Explosive Deflection Field
Gist C-Type Kinetic Deflection Field
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Target Painter II
Target Painter II

Torpedo Launcher II, Nova Rage Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II, Nova Rage Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II, Nova Rage Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II, Nova Rage Torpedo
Bastion Module I
Domination Large Proton Smartbomb
Small Tractor Beam II
Salvager II

Large Rocket Fuel Cache Partition II
Large Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II

Warrior II x5
Hobgoblin II x5
Salvage Drone I x5

Disciple of Bob
Caleidascope
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2013-10-22 20:29:32 UTC
If the Bastion mod works like they said so far, I will upgrade to Golem.

I fly cruise missile lmjd fits. So Bastion mod fits perfectly into my play style.

Life is short and dinner time is chancy

Eat dessert first!
Kirkwood Ross
Golden Profession
#4 - 2013-10-22 20:53:24 UTC
Rubicon Marauders will own the hi-sec level 4 security missions for solo players. Bastion module pretty much allows for a 2 slot omni tank with massive damage/application.
m3talc0re X
The Motley Crew of Disorder
The Gorram Shiney Alliance
#5 - 2013-10-22 21:42:07 UTC
Besides all that's already been said, what exactly are you training that's 20 days away from the Golem? Advanced Weapon Upgrades? Caldari BS 5?
Ira Kin Mayaki
Perkone
Caldari State
#6 - 2013-10-22 21:48:30 UTC
Advanced weapon upgrades

[u]Eve Anime channel: Anime Arigatou[/u]
stoicfaux
#7 - 2013-10-23 02:05:03 UTC
I would probably do this. Rely on the Bastion mode to tank, use the MWD for the few cases where there's some gate travel. 13m of cap with everything but the MWD running. ~30 w/o the tractors. 1.5 minutes with the MWD.

The problem with torps is that you're still looking at ~45km of effective range for T1/CN. CN may do 10% more DPS than Fury, but you're going to lose DPS when MJD'ing, and you have more volley counting to worry about with the slower moving torpedoes. Rage torp DPS probably isn't worth the loss of time in ammo switching and dealing with it's ~38km range.

[Rubicon Golem, lazy mode]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Ballistic Control System II

Pithum C-Type Medium Shield Booster
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Cap Recharger II
100MN Microwarpdrive II

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Small Tractor Beam II
Small Tractor Beam II
Small Tractor Beam II
Bastion Module I

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II

Hobgoblin II x10
Salvage Drone 1 x5


Marauders should go back up to 75m3 of done bay, but still keep the 25m bandwidth nerf.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#8 - 2013-10-23 04:18:47 UTC
This is what I have in my eft. that said I'm not sure I'll be able to rip out my t2 rigs on my current golem, although I might just go guy another golem. faction torps do 70 dps more (42 dps with reload included). rage just seem like a pain in the ass to use. and well javs are just a disappointment these days.

I was really hoping the golem would benefit from the added speed that the standard raven got with its rebalance.

with the 5s tp change might not even need that many tps. fit some other stuff instead.

[Golem, Cruise t2 rof rig]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System

Pithum C-Type Medium Shield Booster
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Republic Fleet Target Painter
Republic Fleet Target Painter
Republic Fleet Target Painter
Republic Fleet Target Painter
100MN Afterburner II

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Fury Cruise Missile
Small Tractor Beam II
Small Tractor Beam II
Salvager II

Large Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I
Large Bay Loading Accelerator II

Hornet II x5
Hobgoblin II x5
Warrior II x5

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Oxide Ammar
#9 - 2013-10-23 08:41:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Oxide Ammar
Kirkwood Ross wrote:
Rubicon Marauders will own the hi-sec level 4 security missions for solo players. Bastion module pretty much allows for a 2 slot omni tank with massive damage/application.


Show me something that Marauders bring that any pimped navy faction BS can't do, NPC EWAR Immunity ? it's mote point if you have enough dps and tank to wipe them in 2-3 salvos. Range? cruise missiles have enough range to reach any npc in any mission without burning single cycle of your AB/MWD.

The only 2 reasons I can see overcome the navy BS line (still imo are not that important) :
- CCP embedded enough tank in Marauders that can make you save up in mods and you can go tech II / faction mods maximum.
- Marauders in highsec won't be on any killmail for long long time even if it's carrying plexes, deploy bastion mode point at gankers and laugh.

Lady Areola Fappington:  Solo PVP isn't dead!  You just need to make sure you have your booster, remote rep, cyno, and emergency Falcon alts logged in and ready before you do any solo PVPing.
The Djego
Hellequin Inc.
#10 - 2013-10-23 14:24:01 UTC  |  Edited by: The Djego
If you used a mwd fitted max gank golem so far, the changes are pretty bad and gimp the hull(less speed, what is a big deal since it is already to slow and less dps with sentry). If you just look for a brain afk way to tank L4, ignore EW and hammer stuff down with CMs it gets a bit better at this.

As for marauder vs faction BS, if you look at torps it is currently like this:

[Golem, New Setup 1]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System

Domination Target Painter
Domination Target Painter
Domination Target Painter
Core A-Type 100MN Microwarpdrive
Pith A-Type Large Shield Booster
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

Torpedo Launcher II, Nova Rage Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II, Nova Rage Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II, Nova Rage Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II, Nova Rage Torpedo
Salvager II
Small Tractor Beam II
Small Tractor Beam II

Large Bay Loading Accelerator II
Large Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I


Garde II x2
Hobgoblin II x3
Hobgoblin II x2

vs

[Raven Navy Issue, New Setup 1]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Co-Processor II

Pith X-Type Large Shield Booster
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Gist A-Type 100MN Microwarpdrive
Domination Target Painter
Domination Target Painter
Pithum A-Type Kinetic Deflection Amplifier

Torpedo Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Torpedo
Torpedo Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Torpedo

Large Rocket Fuel Cache Partition II
Large Dynamic Fuel Valve II
Large Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II


Garde II x3
Hobgoblin II x2
Hobgoblin II x3

I was actually hoping that the golem finds back to her old spot as final word for torp BS. However given that the slightly higher dps and better application currently doesn't manage to give it a edge over the CNR, simply because the CNR is a lot faster in range and needs to burn less cap with the MWD the changes currently simply make it worse as a torp ship. If you consider to balance out the lack of range on torps with javelins you should never fitted torps to begin with, since CMs are downright better.

Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#11 - 2013-10-23 15:21:38 UTC
Oxide Ammar wrote:
Show me something that Marauders bring that any pimped navy faction BS can't do.


- the paladin will outrange the nightmare, with the nightmare's tracking bonus being easily compensated by an extra tracking computer.
- the vargur already outranges the (shield) machariel and will even more with bastion.
- the kronos will be a uniquely viable blaster mission platform.
- if you think that ewar immunity is not relevant in lvl4 missions, you probably never ran lvl4 missions.

that enough? cause i have more...

I should buy an Ishtar.
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
#12 - 2013-10-23 15:31:04 UTC
For me, I'm gonna likely use both. In mission like BR Blockade, I sit in place anyways, so a Pally or Golem works well enough there. For missions where I need to move about, like Dread Pirate Scarlet, I will likely rely on the CNR. Overall, depending on your playstyle (Pally looks really good with the changes, Vargur not so much), marauders will either be a godsend for you or waste of space. As said, I will still likely use the Golem in some missions, but the CNR has replaced it for me as my main go-to L4 boat (the extra low and rig on the CNR is actually really cool, wish the Golem had another low to play with at least). Too bad the animations aren't that impressive.

Some people will likely fall in love with the marauders in general, some will sell them. The only reason I'm not selling mine yet is because I will at least try it out before I decide to do so (keeping an open mind, but I doubt I will keep the Golem in the long run).

"Tomahawks?"

"----in' A, right?"

"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."

"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
Maxx Phobos
#13 - 2013-10-23 16:37:41 UTC
i've been flying a fully skilled CNR for years and after trying the Golem on SISI i immediately ran and bought the golem on TQ, the change is pretty nice so far.

I haven't used Torps since the range nerf several expansions ago but on the New Bastion Golem I will definitely be using them again , Pushing 50k with Scourge Rage torps using implants and rigs is what i've been wanting, 1150 dps not to shabby.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#14 - 2013-10-23 16:57:25 UTC
Most people who fly battleships in level 4's use prop mods to get closer to the targets. I have slown most ships, even my mach, as a stationary battleship due to sentry drone use mostly. I found pulling targets with a target painter works well. With the new 5 second cycle time this will be exceptionally useful. The addition of the MJD cooldown will be paramount coupled with bastion mode. You will be able to jump into range 90%+ of the time.

However, is the question a bit slanted? I mean, I seldom, if ever, see people posting about/flying a torp RNI. I personally don't like the RNI much for missions over the RS or TFI as it is because they both get 1200 applicable DPS.

Quote:

If the Bastion mod works like they said so far, I will upgrade to Golem.

I fly cruise missile lmjd fits. So Bastion mod fits perfectly into my play style.


Whats the advantage if you're going CM to CM?

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Thaddeus Eggeras
Urkrathos Corp
#15 - 2013-10-23 17:58:49 UTC
Golem before or after Rubicon will ALWAYS do better then the CNR, many more bonuses, and tougher. The RS is great for PvE though, one of the best for it, VERY skill intense though.
AskariRising
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#16 - 2013-10-24 13:04:40 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:
Oxide Ammar wrote:
Show me something that Marauders bring that any pimped navy faction BS can't do.


- the paladin will outrange the nightmare, with the nightmare's tracking bonus being easily compensated by an extra tracking computer.
- the vargur already outranges the (shield) machariel and will even more with bastion.
- the kronos will be a uniquely viable blaster mission platform.
- if you think that ewar immunity is not relevant in lvl4 missions, you probably never ran lvl4 missions.

that enough? cause i have more...


i noticed you didnt mention anything about the golem...
Kirkwood Ross
Golden Profession
#17 - 2013-10-24 18:13:22 UTC
If you want to do level 4 security mission in hi-sec train for the golem. The 2-3 mod tank, the immunity to e-war, tractors for mission items and salvage some battleships as you go. The massive bonus to target painters will blow up sig radius from annoying frigs/cruisers. It's just a sweet deal. You can T2 fit a golem and it is still great.

On a side note: with bastion activated I've noticed that cruise missiles aren't countered by npc defender missiles. not sure if it's a bug or not but the npc defender's just go right past them and then turn around and never catch up.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#18 - 2013-10-24 18:35:51 UTC
Oxide Ammar wrote:

Show me something that Marauders bring that any pimped navy faction BS can't do, NPC EWAR Immunity ? it's mote point if you have enough dps and tank to wipe them in 2-3 salvos.

You can't out-dps not being able to target things. Also, tracking disruption.

Quote:
- CCP embedded enough tank in Marauders that can make you save up in mods and you can go tech II / faction mods maximum.
- Marauders in highsec won't be on any killmail for long long time even if it's carrying plexes, deploy bastion mode point at gankers and laugh.


You are clueless.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Kirkwood Ross
Golden Profession
#19 - 2013-10-24 18:52:16 UTC
Oxide Ammar wrote:
- Marauders in highsec won't be on any killmail for long long time even if it's carrying plexes, deploy bastion mode point at gankers and laugh.


Alpha
Caleidascope
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2013-10-24 20:22:53 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:

Whats the advantage if you're going CM to CM?

EWAR immunity.

Life is short and dinner time is chancy

Eat dessert first!
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