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Verdict in on Trial

Author
Anslo
Scope Works
#21 - 2013-10-19 15:47:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Anslo
TomHorn wrote:
Elokur may have been found innocent. If he stays within the Federation i think he will be dead within a year. The true Gallente will not forget what he did to their kind. Like James says it wil be best if goes back to where he belongs.

Not everyone in the fed is a xenophobic *******. He'll be just fine. Like I said, I'd be more than happy to help pay for e kid's security for a long while. Anybody know how to contact him or his representative?

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Kyllsa Siikanen
Tuonelan Virta
#22 - 2013-10-19 17:01:10 UTC
Um, pretty sure no one called the Gallente racist "for no reason".

You know, the attacks on him AND on Midular were both fueled by racist sentiment.

Glad he's free. Maybe our justice system could learn a few things here?

“Crying is all right in its own way while it lasts. But you have to stop sooner or later, and then you still have to decide what to do.” 

― C.S. Lewis 

Ayallah
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2013-10-20 13:00:42 UTC
Eating crows seems to have gained popularity.

And I told you so.

Goddess of the IGS

As strength goes.

Seriphyn Inhonores
Elusenian Cooperative
#24 - 2013-10-20 13:28:28 UTC
TomHorn wrote:
Elokur may have been found innocent. If he stays within the Federation i think he will be dead within a year. The true Gallente will not forget what he did to their kind. Like James says it wil be best if goes back to where he belongs.


I consider myself a true Gallente, and don't give a **** what he did. I mean, the Federation has hundreds of planets and billions of people with a near-infinite amount of opinions. He could even buy an island on Synchelle III and he will be forgotten about.

Planets are big. Let's not forget that. This has all been localized to the Synchelle system, since there have been no reports of riots beyond.

It would be stupid, anyway. "Let's riot against our local planetary government that had nothing to do with something that took place in a jurisdiction lightyears away!"
Gabriel Darkefyre
Gradient
Electus Matari
#25 - 2013-10-20 13:57:41 UTC
Seriphyn Inhonores wrote:
TomHorn wrote:
Elokur may have been found innocent. If he stays within the Federation i think he will be dead within a year. The true Gallente will not forget what he did to their kind. Like James says it wil be best if goes back to where he belongs.


I consider myself a true Gallente, and don't give a **** what he did. I mean, the Federation has hundreds of planets and billions of people with a near-infinite amount of opinions. He could even buy an island on Synchelle III and he will be forgotten about.

Planets are big. Let's not forget that. This has all been localized to the Synchelle system, since there have been no reports of riots beyond.

It would be stupid, anyway. "Let's riot against our local planetary government that had nothing to do with something that took place in a jurisdiction lightyears away!"


Indeed. However, for some, They honestly don't give a damn either way regarding the verdict, they just want an excuse for a fight. Had Elokur been found guilty, you would probably have found many of the same "rioters" creating havoc in favour of releasing Elokur.

I'm glad the Gallente Legal System worked as it should have. I am, however, concerned regarding the competence of the FIO Investigations and Prosecutions. This is the second High Profile case they've botched in Recent times where the evidence they've gathered has not stood up to scrutiny in Court. That Singer being the other one.

I mean, if Elokur's Injuries were too serious for him to be able to give chase from the scene of the assault, why did they push the angle of him continuing to pursue his attackers after they ran? Surely that would have been the first question asked in the investigation?

Did they push this case to court only to prove the system works?



Andrea Okazon
Laurentson INC
#26 - 2013-10-20 14:30:07 UTC
Gabriel Darkefyre wrote:


I'm glad the Gallente Legal System worked as it should have. I am, however, concerned regarding the competence of the FIO Investigations and Prosecutions. This is the second High Profile case they've botched in Recent times where the evidence they've gathered has not stood up to scrutiny in Court. That Singer being the other one.

I mean, if Elokur's Injuries were too serious for him to be able to give chase from the scene of the assault, why did they push the angle of him continuing to pursue his attackers after they ran? Surely that would have been the first question asked in the investigation?

Did they push this case to court only to prove the system works?



Dealing with federal incompetence is actually part of the system.
Seriphyn Inhonores
Elusenian Cooperative
#27 - 2013-10-20 14:59:43 UTC
Elokur was not a Federal case, neither was Broteau. The singer Hanvyner was, though.
Gabriel Darkefyre
Gradient
Electus Matari
#28 - 2013-10-20 15:10:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Gabriel Darkefyre
Seriphyn Inhonores wrote:
Elokur was not a Federal case, neither was Broteau. The singer Hanvyner was, though.


Perhaps Elokur was not a purely Federal Case, but there was certainly direct Federal Involvement with the Investigation as he was handed straight to the SDII by the Local Police for Questioning.

Question is whether the decision to lay charges was purely a decision from the Synchelle Authorities, or if they brought the case to trial following pressure from the SDII.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#29 - 2013-10-20 17:18:49 UTC
Normally, in the State, questions as to Elokur's competence to give chase would be handled by forensic and medical experts. It is entirely likely that it never would have come to a tribunal.

In the Federal system, however, there is a big difference between the case being dropped and an actual exoneration before the law. I believe the questions involved in this case may have been sufficiently weighty that the prosecutor wouldn't have been happy in his own mind without them being settled by the so-called 'jury of his peers'. Also, a jury decision is freer of politics than an elected or appointed official's decision.

In any case, there were no turns taken here that I didn't expect. The two legal teams seem to have asked all the right questions.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Koratta Keng
Keng Mining and Mineral
#30 - 2013-10-22 22:33:30 UTC
News Source
This may bring more trouble to the matter.
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2013-10-22 22:42:58 UTC
The Republic not only destroyed the Yulai station causing us to get invaded but then five years later, actually invaded us.

Yeah, the Republic isn't trustworthy, it doesn't take a lot to see this. It's honestly extremely puzzling how we are still "allies". The Federation has gained little to nothing from this "alliance". You can even make the argument that we've suffered losses from this "alliance".

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#32 - 2013-10-22 23:04:19 UTC
The Federation has gained a measure of survival from the alliance with the Republic. Speaking based on the political situation ten years ago, if it hadn't been for that alliance we would likely have decided to shatter you as a threat and brought our Amarrian friends along for the ride.

A lot of the other stuff that politician had to say is certainly a valid way of interpreting things, though.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#33 - 2013-10-22 23:22:25 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
The Federation has gained a measure of survival from the alliance with the Republic. Speaking based on the political situation ten years ago, if it hadn't been for that alliance we would likely have decided to shatter you as a threat and brought our Amarrian friends along for the ride.

A lot of the other stuff that politician had to say is certainly a valid way of interpreting things, though.

Thank you Pieter, the "statter" bit made me chuckle and I needed a laugh today.

Even so, times change.

The era of trust between the Federation and Tribal Entity is over.

The denial of some makes it no less true.
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2013-10-23 00:19:29 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
The Federation has gained a measure of survival from the alliance with the Republic. Speaking based on the political situation ten years ago, if it hadn't been for that alliance we would likely have decided to shatter you as a threat and brought our Amarrian friends along for the ride.

A lot of the other stuff that politician had to say is certainly a valid way of interpreting things, though.


Ten years ago, hell, even five years ago, an Amarr-Caldari coalition could easily dominate the Federation, with or without the Minmatar as our allies. Now? Not so much, provided we play our cards right and stay on the defensive. Our military is stronger than ever.

And besides, the Republic has ironically proved to be a greater threat to the Federation than the Empire ever was. I sincerely hope every day that the situation turns around. The Republic and Federation were great friends for a while, Shakor ruined that.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!

Constantin Baracca
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#35 - 2013-10-23 03:43:56 UTC
Gabriel Darkefyre wrote:
Seriphyn Inhonores wrote:
Elokur was not a Federal case, neither was Broteau. The singer Hanvyner was, though.


Perhaps Elokur was not a purely Federal Case, but there was certainly direct Federal Involvement with the Investigation as he was handed straight to the SDII by the Local Police for Questioning.

Question is whether the decision to lay charges was purely a decision from the Synchelle Authorities, or if they brought the case to trial following pressure from the SDII.


My lawyer told me that even if I killed someone in self-defense, even the most blatant self-defense, in Gallente space, I might as well prepare myself to be arrested. I might be cleared, but if you kill someone the Gallente like to consider it murder until proven otherwise.

Luckily, the situation that snippet of information was preparing me for never materialized, but it's always something to keep in mind in the Federation.

"What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"

-Matthew 16:26

Ollie Rundle
#36 - 2013-10-23 04:45:17 UTC
Constantin Baracca wrote:
Gabriel Darkefyre wrote:
Seriphyn Inhonores wrote:
Elokur was not a Federal case, neither was Broteau. The singer Hanvyner was, though.


Perhaps Elokur was not a purely Federal Case, but there was certainly direct Federal Involvement with the Investigation as he was handed straight to the SDII by the Local Police for Questioning.

Question is whether the decision to lay charges was purely a decision from the Synchelle Authorities, or if they brought the case to trial following pressure from the SDII.


My lawyer told me that even if I killed someone in self-defense, even the most blatant self-defense, in Gallente space, I might as well prepare myself to be arrested. I might be cleared, but if you kill someone the Gallente like to consider it murder until proven otherwise.

It's not quite that simple.

Contrary to what you suggest, the Federal Constitution mandates for a presumption of innocence in all the criminal proceedings of its member states leaving the burden of proof with the prosecution. You are correct, however, that an alleged crime, regardless of its nature, must be investigated and prosecuted if it is determined there is a case to answer.

To use Elokur's case as the example, there were two alleged crimes committed. The first was by the three men that attacked him - this is common assault, referred to under whatever legal term the local Synchelle jurisdiction decides to designate and define it as. The accused in this case were deceased, so there was no need to prosecute it.

The second alleged crime relates to the deaths of those three men at Elokur's hands - in this case the potential outcomes needing to be decided upon included murder, manslaughter or self-defense. That was the reason for the trial - via counsel Elokur pleaded not guilty to murder/manslaughter on grounds of self-defense, and the prosecution's attempts to prove him guilty were dismissed by a jury of peers.

I am not familiar with what specific legal rights the Synchelle jurisdiction where this incident took place extends to those accused of major crime.

It may be they have a 'bail' system. It may that they do not and are legally within their rights to hold the accused indefinitely while awating trial.

It is more likely to be somewhere between those two extremes - why?

Because the Federal Charter - the foundation document of the Federation - stipulates its member state's right to self-governance only so long as their laws respect and abide by the titles of the Constitution. The titles pertaining to Freedom, Equality and Justice in particular would seem to mandate against local legislation that proposes indefinite incarceration for those awaiting trial without some form of objective judicial oversight or review system in place.

As to the involvement of SDII - this probably eventuated as a result of recent events and the particulars of this case. There has been an upsurge in racial tensions within the Federation, sparked by the assassination of a prominent Minmatar politician by a deranged Gallente nationalist before becoming inflamed by the breakdown of diplomatic relations that followed it, the tragic consequence of the actions of the Republic military forces in Colelie and the terrorist actions involving Minmatar extremists which resulted in further loss of life for Federal citizens after that.

It's in this context of destabilised internal political security and under their responsibility for pro-actively identifying incidents, groups or individuals that might lead to further destabilisation that I believe SDII were invited by local authorities to become involved. To my knowledge, there is no objective evidence of this invitation to be involved having any direct impact on either the local authority's investigation, the decision to prosecute or the outcome of the trial.
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