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Nosygamer's analysis of indirect RMT via Lottery Sites (SOMER etc.)

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Druthlen
The Carlisle Group
#21 - 2013-10-22 12:33:05 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
And it is a surprise to no one that CCP are knowingly allowing RMT for people like somer


Thats because it isn't RMT Big smile

Anyone that isn't involved in this can see it is RMT. I knew you would be in the forum though defending your blink rmt scheme.
RAW23
#22 - 2013-10-22 12:35:04 UTC
Jowen Datloran wrote:
This deal does indeed have the stench of RMT associated with it. I can only assume that the appropriate people within CCP have been kept unaware or it would have shot down already.


You are a good and trusting man. Unfortunately, the evidence suggests that your assumptions about CCP are probably overly generous.

There are two types of EVE player:

those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not.
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#23 - 2013-10-22 12:41:24 UTC
I thought this was already the general consensus. Very interesting and methodically written out though, but it hasn't really changed the way I look at the situation. Just confirms what has been said really.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf
Prince Kobol
#24 - 2013-10-22 12:48:17 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
And it is a surprise to no one that CCP are knowingly allowing RMT for people like somer


Thats because it isn't RMT Big smile

Since you can convert the blinks into isk with 100% if thats true and you can have CCP convert the GTC into plex which convert into isk as well you end up with:

GTC purchase -> Plex -> isk
7 dollars to Somer -> Blinks -> isk

First line legit
Second line RMT

You'll probably say well Somer would get that 7 dollars anyway but they wouldn't because they wouldn't be selling as many GTC without selling the Isk.


The problem is that it is not true.

Once you your 200mil isk credit you have to spend it on blinks and win to get it back.

Can you 100% convert your 200mil credit to 200mil isk.. no.

Even if you manage to blink on all the available slots you still do not get your 200mil back.
Prince Kobol
#25 - 2013-10-22 12:49:55 UTC
Druthlen wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
And it is a surprise to no one that CCP are knowingly allowing RMT for people like somer


Thats because it isn't RMT Big smile

Anyone that isn't involved in this can see it is RMT. I knew you would be in the forum though defending your blink rmt scheme.


Well it is not my scheme although damn I wish it was and that is what a lot of people have a problem with, it not them making bundles of isk and cash legally, even thou they could if they choose to as it is quite easy to do Big smile
Baali Tekitsu
AQUILA INC
#26 - 2013-10-22 12:50:10 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
And it is a surprise to no one that CCP are knowingly allowing RMT for people like somer


Thats because it isn't RMT Big smile

Since you can convert the blinks into isk with 100% if thats true and you can have CCP convert the GTC into plex which convert into isk as well you end up with:

GTC purchase -> Plex -> isk
7 dollars to Somer -> Blinks -> isk

First line legit
Second line RMT

You'll probably say well Somer would get that 7 dollars anyway but they wouldn't because they wouldn't be selling as many GTC without selling the Isk.


The problem is that it is not true.

Once you your 200mil isk credit you have to spend it on blinks and win to get it back.

Can you 100% convert your 200mil credit to 200mil isk.. no.

Even if you manage to blink on all the available slots you still do not get your 200mil back.


If youre lucky you get even more.

RATE LIKE SUBSCRIBE
RAW23
#27 - 2013-10-22 12:55:35 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:

The problem is that it is not true.

Once you your 200mil isk credit you have to spend it on blinks and win to get it back.

Can you 100% convert your 200mil credit to 200mil isk.. no.

Even if you manage to blink on all the available slots you still do not get your 200mil back.


Are you being deliberately obtuse or do you really think that adding in a small mechanism of chance is all it takes to stop something being RMT? You would be fine with swapping isk for RL cash if on one in every hundred transactions, determined randomly, the isk seller didn't pay up?

There are two types of EVE player:

those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not.
Jori McKie
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#28 - 2013-10-22 13:00:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Jori McKie
Prince Kobol wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
And it is a surprise to no one that CCP are knowingly allowing RMT for people like somer


Thats because it isn't RMT Big smile

Since you can convert the blinks into isk with 100% if thats true and you can have CCP convert the GTC into plex which convert into isk as well you end up with:

GTC purchase -> Plex -> isk
7 dollars to Somer -> Blinks -> isk

First line legit
Second line RMT

You'll probably say well Somer would get that 7 dollars anyway but they wouldn't because they wouldn't be selling as many GTC without selling the Isk.


The problem is that it is not true.

Once you your 200mil isk credit you have to spend it on blinks and win to get it back.

Can you 100% convert your 200mil credit to 200mil isk.. no.

Even if you manage to blink on all the available slots you still do not get your 200mil back.



Doesn't matter at all, if that is required to "RMT" stuff more will do it. If that what Nosy described isn't RMT and CCP won't shut it down/declare it as RMT, what do you think will happen with all the assets/ISK Goons, N3, PL, old money like X-traders have?
Hell there are even some individuals out there with Xtrillions in their coffers, the race is on.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." - Abrazzar
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#29 - 2013-10-22 13:06:48 UTC
Surprised this thread is not locked yet.

I am reasonably sure the letters R M T, are flagged by some forum bot spider program at CCP and sirens go off as soon the word shows up.
Frying Doom
#30 - 2013-10-22 13:11:08 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Surprised this thread is not locked yet.

I am reasonably sure the letters R M T, are flagged by some forum bot spider program at CCP and sirens go off as soon the word shows up.

Not if it has the words Somer in it.

Then it is just business as usual.Lol

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Frying Doom
#31 - 2013-10-22 13:15:05 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
And it is a surprise to no one that CCP are knowingly allowing RMT for people like somer


Thats because it isn't RMT Big smile

Since you can convert the blinks into isk with 100% if thats true and you can have CCP convert the GTC into plex which convert into isk as well you end up with:

GTC purchase -> Plex -> isk
7 dollars to Somer -> Blinks -> isk

First line legit
Second line RMT

You'll probably say well Somer would get that 7 dollars anyway but they wouldn't because they wouldn't be selling as many GTC without selling the Isk.


The problem is that it is not true.

Once you your 200mil isk credit you have to spend it on blinks and win to get it back.

Can you 100% convert your 200mil credit to 200mil isk.. no.

Even if you manage to blink on all the available slots you still do not get your 200mil back.

So you are saying that a scheme where I give you 200,000,000 credits to convert and after appropriate laundering I give you 199,999,999.99 isk back that would not be RMT?

Just because Somer takes a 25% laundering fee does not mean that it is not RMT, it just means that Somer is being paid to launder it.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Prince Kobol
#32 - 2013-10-22 13:27:37 UTC
RAW23 wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:

The problem is that it is not true.

Once you your 200mil isk credit you have to spend it on blinks and win to get it back.

Can you 100% convert your 200mil credit to 200mil isk.. no.

Even if you manage to blink on all the available slots you still do not get your 200mil back.


Are you being deliberately obtuse or do you really think that adding in a small mechanism of chance is all it takes to stop something being RMT? You would be fine with swapping isk for RL cash if on one in every hundred transactions, determined randomly, the isk seller didn't pay up?


Yes because as you say its chanced base.

Its is a very fine line but there it is.
Prince Kobol
#33 - 2013-10-22 13:29:49 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
And it is a surprise to no one that CCP are knowingly allowing RMT for people like somer


Thats because it isn't RMT Big smile

Since you can convert the blinks into isk with 100% if thats true and you can have CCP convert the GTC into plex which convert into isk as well you end up with:

GTC purchase -> Plex -> isk
7 dollars to Somer -> Blinks -> isk

First line legit
Second line RMT

You'll probably say well Somer would get that 7 dollars anyway but they wouldn't because they wouldn't be selling as many GTC without selling the Isk.


The problem is that it is not true.

Once you your 200mil isk credit you have to spend it on blinks and win to get it back.

Can you 100% convert your 200mil credit to 200mil isk.. no.

Even if you manage to blink on all the available slots you still do not get your 200mil back.

So you are saying that a scheme where I give you 200,000,000 credits to convert and after appropriate laundering I give you 199,999,999.99 isk back that would not be RMT?

Just because Somer takes a 25% laundering fee does not mean that it is not RMT, it just means that Somer is being paid to launder it.


Nope because what you are doing is not chanced base.

As I have said before it is a fine line but there you go.

Also why is it now a problem?

Somer has been running for 3+ now yet all of a sudden its bad?

Its not like they have been hiding in the shadows is it.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#34 - 2013-10-22 13:33:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucas Kell
Prince Kobol wrote:
The problem is that it is not true.

Once you your 200mil isk credit you have to spend it on blinks and win to get it back.

Can you 100% convert your 200mil credit to 200mil isk.. no.

Even if you manage to blink on all the available slots you still do not get your 200mil back.
As Frying Doom said above.
Blink pay out 80% so by giving you 200m credit, they are giving you 160m isk. If they wanted you to have 200m isk, they'd give you 250m credit.
I really don;t know how you can continue to try to tell us that blink don't RMT.
Let's super simplify for you to get it:

I've simplified the figures so you might understand
This is the state beforehand:

Blink RL wallet $0
Your RL wallet $35
Markee RL wallet: $0
Blink ISK wallet: 1200m (0m reserved for credit)
Your Credit: 0m
Your ISK wallet: 0m

You buy a GTC for $35. Markee gets that and pays somer, let's just say $5 for simplicity. Somer give you 200m credit. This makes the following state:

Blink RL wallet $5
Your RL wallet $0
Markee RL wallet: $30
Blink ISK wallet: 1200m (200m reserved for credit)
Your Credit: 200m
Your ISK wallet: 0m

Now you play blink, buying all of the tickets for a 200m lottery with a 160m prize. You win 160m isk. Now it looks like this:

Blink RL wallet $5
Your RL wallet $0
Markee RL wallet: $30
Blink ISK wallet: 1040m (0m reserved for credit)
Your Credit: 0m
Your ISK wallet: 160m

Do you see how blink have decreased their isk wallet, while increasing yours, and increased their RL wallet? That's RMT. They paid you isk to engage in a transaction which game them real money.
Just because they jammed the extra step in the middle that has their own made up "credit" currency does not stop it being RMT. They get sales which net them cash by "giving" out their isk. The only difference between them and a straight up RMTer that gets banned every day is the terminology.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#35 - 2013-10-22 13:39:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucas Kell
As for "it's chance based". We get that they give out their credit which can be used as a chance based thing, but that doesn't stop it being isk. You would choose to gamble it.
Besides, even if it was forced to be chance based, they are still giving isk to players in exchange for their fee. If you gamble it int 10m blocks 20 times, someone gets 8m of the isk they have given out for each lottery. Or are you also saying it's not RMT if the guy getting the isk is not the same as the guy paying the cash? If that's the case then I can buy you isk on an RMT site right? And you can buy me isk there? Surely?

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Prince Kobol
#36 - 2013-10-22 13:42:21 UTC
Been waiting for Lucas to appear :)

Hows it going?
Calisto Thellere
#37 - 2013-10-22 13:43:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Calisto Thellere
Lucas Kell wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
The problem is that it is not true.

Once you your 200mil isk credit you have to spend it on blinks and win to get it back.

Can you 100% convert your 200mil credit to 200mil isk.. no.

Even if you manage to blink on all the available slots you still do not get your 200mil back.
As Frying Doom said above.
Blink pay out 80% so by giving you 200m credit, they are giving you 160m isk. If they wanted you to have 200m isk, they'd give you 250m credit.
I really don;t know how you can continue to try to tell us that blink don't RMT.
Let's super simplify for you to get it:

I've simplified the figures so you might understand
This is the state beforehand:

Blink RL wallet $0
Your RL wallet $35
Markee RL wallet: $0
Blink ISK wallet: 1200m (0m reserved for credit)
Your Credit: 0m
Your ISK wallet: 0m

You buy a GTC for $35. Markee gets that and pays somer, let's just say $5 for simplicity. Somer give you 200m credit. This makes the following state:

Blink RL wallet $5
Your RL wallet $0
Markee RL wallet: $30
Blink ISK wallet: 1200m (200m reserved for credit)
Your Credit: 200m
Your ISK wallet: 0m

Now you play blink, buying all of the tickets for a 200m lottery with a 160m prize. You win 160m isk. Now it looks like this:

Blink RL wallet $5
Your RL wallet $0
Markee RL wallet: $30
Blink ISK wallet: 1040m (0m reserved for credit)
Your Credit: 0m
Your ISK wallet: 160m

Do you see how blink have decreased their isk wallet, while increasing yours, and increased their RL wallet? That's RMT. They paid you isk to engage in a transaction which game them real money.
Just because they jammed the extra step in the middle that has their own made up "credit" currency does not stop it being RMT. They get sales which net them cash by "giving" out their isk. The only difference between them and a straight up RMTer that gets banned every day is the terminology.



Nice and informative post thank you!

So we can presume indirect RMT is ok with CCP then right, cool!
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#38 - 2013-10-22 13:43:37 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Been waiting for Lucas to appear :)

Hows it going?
Been good :p and you?
You know I can't keep out of these ones.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Prince Kobol
#39 - 2013-10-22 13:44:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Prince Kobol
Lucas Kell wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
Been waiting for Lucas to appear :)

Hows it going?
Been good :p and you?
You know I can't keep out of these ones.



Cool..

Yeah I know.. doesn't make it a good thread without your input :)
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
#40 - 2013-10-22 13:46:29 UTC
Why is this still under discussion?

CCP is guilty as sin of profiteering and their not apologizing for it.

Get over it.

Not today spaghetti.