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The Quadruple nerf of Marauders

Author
Vince Mctavern
Anara Sol
#21 - 2013-10-14 17:51:22 UTC
Supreme clientele wrote:
OHMERGAWD.....please beat the tractor bonus with a lead pipe until it comes off this ship class. We use Noctis and deployable tractor these days. Maurauders dont need a tractor bonus.

Eh? The deployable tractor module doesn't even exist yet so no, 'we' don't use it. Personally I also don't use a Noctis to salvage either, since it takes longer to bookmark each pocket, swap ships and return to clean up than it takes me to just tractor/salvage 'on the go' during a mission. Please leave the tractor bonus as it is.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#22 - 2013-10-14 18:53:11 UTC
OP is a bastion of incompetence.

I should buy an Ishtar.

Aglais
Ice-Storm
#23 - 2013-10-14 19:15:05 UTC
Supreme clientele wrote:
stop cryng no one hates pve. Mauraders are broken and need nerfbat big time. these things godtank everything that isnt a dread. so lets get real stop the crying and let these things get corrected. u want to pve do it in a raven


This has to be a troll post because they tank even better than before in bastion mode to the point that you do actually need caps to kill them from what I have heard in 6C.
Vince Mctavern
Anara Sol
#24 - 2013-10-15 02:15:26 UTC
Aglais wrote:
This has to be a troll post because they tank even better than before in bastion mode to the point that you do actually need caps to kill them from what I have heard in 6C.

Hint: Neuts. They don't like it up 'em. Big smile
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#25 - 2013-10-15 03:33:27 UTC
Supreme clientele wrote:
OHMERGAWD.....please beat the tractor bonus with a lead pipe until it comes off this ship class. We use Noctis and deployable tractor these days. Maurauders dont need a tractor bonus.


but it's good for looting the can with the stupid damsel in it. no ******* way am I warping back to station and coming back with a noctis just for that crazy lady.

if anything the tractor bonus should get better to compete with the noctis. going back to station and switching ships is a waste of time!

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#26 - 2013-10-15 06:39:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Alvatore DiMarco
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
Supreme clientele wrote:
OHMERGAWD.....please beat the tractor bonus with a lead pipe until it comes off this ship class. We use Noctis and deployable tractor these days. Maurauders dont need a tractor bonus.


but it's good for looting the can with the stupid damsel in it. no ******* way am I warping back to station and coming back with a noctis just for that crazy lady.

if anything the tractor bonus should get better to compete with the noctis. going back to station and switching ships is a waste of time!


This. All of it.
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#27 - 2013-10-17 11:21:56 UTC
But with the new deployable structure, it's not necessary to waste targeting and highslots on tractors. Just pop it open at the start of your mission (and pay a bit of attention)

Then stick, I dunno, smartbombs (again, attention) or auto targeters (for the +1 lock total) in the highs.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.

TheFace Asano
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#28 - 2013-10-17 14:00:20 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
A Man Divided wrote:
Supreme clientele wrote:
stop cryng no one hates pve. Mauraders are broken and need nerfbat big time. these things godtank everything that isnt a dread. so lets get real stop the crying and let these things get corrected. u want to pve do it in a raven


Yea the Raven is the only ship and the ideal ship in PVE.....I hope Devs never listen to people like you.


Rest assured that they don't.

Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Wall of ... let's just not go there.


So let's examine your points:

1. Please do enlighten me on how a dev originating from Pandemic Legion or Band of Brothers or Goonswarm or Red Frog has any bearing on anything.

While it's true that the Paladin and Golem saw their drone bandwidth reduced by two-thirds, the Kronos and Vargur only lost 25Mbit. You don't really need drones on the Golem and you shouldn't really need them on such a long-range platform as a Paladin. As far as pulling drones back in, I tend to pull in my light drones pretty quickly. It helps to keep them close to the ship. Your last complaint is false too - drones begin attacking as soon as they're in range; they just apply it more poorly before the MWD cycles off.

By the way, you make hundreds of millions of ISK an hour and you're whining about replacing four or five million ISK per site? Really?

Learn to fly your ship. Learn to fly in a fleet. Learn how tracking works and modify your tactics accordingly.


2. The warp acceleration is pretty lousy, granted. However, I think you're being a little bit overdramatic. When I say "a little bit" I really mean "incredibly and overwhelmingly, to the point of comedy". It will affect Incursion income for sure, but mission income won't be affected all that noticeably.

3. You see, contrary to what you experience in your hyper-specialized and super-narrow armor incursion fleet, there are tons of fat, slow ships out there with no web bonus at all who handle elite frigs getting under their guns every single day. You're basically saying you can't do the same thing they do while having the same tools available to you that they have.

While it doesn't directly address anything you've said so far, I just want to point out that in the natural world, overspecialization of a species tends to lead directly to its extinction. Feel free to chew on that for a little bit.


4. Do you even have any idea what kind of senseless sperg you are typing? First you complain that it takes so long to get into warp and so long to travel but then you talk about how you're going to be sitting at a gate or station waiting for the Weapons Timer to expire. Are they adding Incursion Sites right on top of gates and stations now? Having a weapons timer does not force you to remain in a site. It does not restrict acceleration gates.

There aren't even that many gankers in highsec unless your Marauder is fully deadspace/officer-fitted. Even if it is and they do appear, just put Bastion back on and tank them until CONCORD arrives.

Every time I go into Bastion on SiSi to kill belt rats (mostly because I feel like it rather than for any practical reason) my weapons timer has always expired by the time I finish warping back to the station.

If you happen to be the type who drops Bastion to salvage a room before moving on to the next, you'll be salvaging the final room of the mission while your Weapons Timer counts down. A minute is a lot shorter than what you make it out to be with your antics.

You're right though, it will have an effect on PvE income - it will increase it. The time you shave off of each mission or site by having more DPS fitted on account of needing fewer tanking modules will translate into higher ISK/hr.

Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:

Like I said, kudo's to the null sec dev's who dreamed up all these hits to PvE income, with no doubt the well-meaning help of certain CSM members.

The last time you instituted a quadruple nerf, it was on incursions, and you had to back out some of the changes, but only after the expense of wrecking some incursion communities. You remember those communities, the type pf players who were quite happy to participate in an MMO setting, as opposed to null sec solo ratting?

So bravo CCP devs, bravo. I am certain one where you will ignore points like this, because you guys have had to grind oh so many sites while being in PL or making so many Youtube vids of solo/small gang work in Null, which gives you unique insight into how PvE works.


Personal attacks and tinfoil, because that's the way to get listened to around here.

Perhaps instead of making butthurt flame-rants because your precious ISK/hr has been touched, you can be a contributor to the solution of how Marauders should be rebalanced. All you're accomplishing right now is making yourself into a justification for all the insults and resentment the Incursion communities receive.

Then again, I'm not surprised. I think I can count on one hand the number of times an incursion pilot has come on the forums and not made a spectacle of themselves.


Exactly my thoughts....
Vinyl 41
AdVictis
#29 - 2013-10-17 14:28:05 UTC
Caellach Marellus wrote:
But with the new deployable structure, it's not necessary to waste targeting and highslots on tractors. Just pop it open at the start of your mission (and pay a bit of attention)

Then stick, I dunno, smartbombs (again, attention) or auto targeters (for the +1 lock total) in the highs.


we got some insight on how the structure will work and it will tractor 1 object at time with t2 tractor speed ( 600m/s) - dont abandon your bonused tractors yetTwisted
Minnie Ryder
Flippin DaBird Corporation 2
#30 - 2013-10-18 05:27:55 UTC
Vinyl 41 wrote:
Caellach Marellus wrote:
But with the new deployable structure, it's not necessary to waste targeting and highslots on tractors. Just pop it open at the start of your mission (and pay a bit of attention)

Then stick, I dunno, smartbombs (again, attention) or auto targeters (for the +1 lock total) in the highs.


we got some insight on how the structure will work and it will tractor 1 object at time with t2 tractor speed ( 600m/s) - dont abandon your bonused tractors yetTwisted


Haven't ever used a salvager, tractor or salvage drone on a marauder. Never will. Hoped that the new structure would be useful, guess that was stupid. As its currently outlined it'll be ignored. But there's still the Noctis, which I'd use to salvage anyway.
Caellach Marellus
Stormcrows
#31 - 2013-10-18 11:12:18 UTC
Vinyl 41 wrote:
Caellach Marellus wrote:
But with the new deployable structure, it's not necessary to waste targeting and highslots on tractors. Just pop it open at the start of your mission (and pay a bit of attention)

Then stick, I dunno, smartbombs (again, attention) or auto targeters (for the +1 lock total) in the highs.


we got some insight on how the structure will work and it will tractor 1 object at time with t2 tractor speed ( 600m/s) - dont abandon your bonused tractors yetTwisted


Why? I can just leave the module to do it's work from the start, I'll use the target slots to focus on actually killing things rather than worry about chasing wrecks. Sure it's one wreck at a time, but with four guns I'm killing one ship at a time. Passive tractor+salvage means I can focus purely on min/maxing for killspeed, anything the module picks up on the side is a bonus.

When your gut instincts tell you something is wrong, trust them. When your heart tells you something is right, ignore it, check with your brain first. Accept nothing, challenge everything.

Melisandre Freewoman
What is Dead May Never Die
#32 - 2013-10-21 11:14:51 UTC
Or you could just deploy two or more tractor structures, depending on restrictions that may have been mentioned that I haven't read about yet.
CMD Ishikawa
New Eden Public Security Section 9
#33 - 2013-10-21 17:45:15 UTC  |  Edited by: CMD Ishikawa
Daniel Plain wrote:
OP is a bastion of incompetence.


This...!!! ... +1 !!!

Hahaha

All this changes are very exciting, I had not been interested in Marauders until now...
Julius Priscus
#34 - 2013-10-21 18:41:34 UTC
wanna make use of your drones???

simple..

one bs at say 50km away... deploy drones. send them after the bs.

the elite frigs chase your drones... then pick off elite frigs as they burn away from you.

or better yet pick em off as they burn towards you from 100km away
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#35 - 2013-10-21 18:43:12 UTC
CMD Ishikawa wrote:
Daniel Plain wrote:
OP is a bastion of incompetence.


This...!!! ... +1 !!!

Hahaha

All this changes are very exciting, I had not been interested in Marauders until now...


Whatever.....

You just commented you have not been interested in Marauders, so doubtless, you have not flown them.
Then you agree with someone who disputes my actual testing on Sisi.

Your opinion mean nothing.
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#36 - 2013-10-22 04:23:08 UTC
So having flown both a paladin and a vargur I'm very looking forward to bastion mode.

1) Drones are fine, I'm gonna go ahead and run Worlds Collide and use dones and not lose a single one. pfffft

2) I don't care THAT much but if you're using a marauder for missions you have a 50/50 chance of being a bling fit kind of guy. How about you go and get that Ascendancy set?

3) Never fit a web anyway, if I let anything get under 10km besides maybe a frigate or two I did something wrong anyway

4) 60 seconds is nothing, quit yer bitching

The Drake is a Lie

Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#37 - 2013-10-22 05:52:03 UTC
Xercodo wrote:
So having flown both a paladin and a vargur I'm very looking forward to bastion mode.

1) Drones are fine, I'm gonna go ahead and run Worlds Collide and use dones and not lose a single one. pfffft

2) I don't care THAT much but if you're using a marauder for missions you have a 50/50 chance of being a bling fit kind of guy. How about you go and get that Ascendancy set?

3) Never fit a web anyway, if I let anything get under 10km besides maybe a frigate or two I did something wrong anyway

4) 60 seconds is nothing, quit yer bitching


Dinsdale is an incursioner, not a missioner. He's also more rabid and frothy-mouthed than usual, so whatever you do try not to make direct eye contact.

The best thing for you to do is just perma-dec his corp.
Mr Chop-Chop
InsufficientFunds LLC.
#38 - 2013-10-22 08:00:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Chop-Chop
It just hit me! Shocked

People who were doing it wrong before the nerf are not complaining because they never understoodthe full capability of the marauder.

"Oh, i dont use drones/web. "


"Oh, 70km with scorch, that's awesome."


"It's just like before, but better because now the rats wont jam me."


Did it ever enter your minds that maybe you just dont know what you're doing?
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#39 - 2013-10-22 18:51:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Alvatore DiMarco
Mr Chop-Chop wrote:
It just hit me! Shocked

People who were doing it wrong before the nerf are not complaining because they never understoodthe full capability of the marauder.

"Oh, i dont use drones/web. "


"Oh, 70km with scorch, that's awesome."


"It's just like before, but better because now the rats wont jam me."


Did it ever enter your minds that maybe you just dont know what you're doing?


Did it ever enter your mind that maybe you are the one who doesn't know what you're doing?

Honestly, this feels like a troll post so I won't reply further.
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#40 - 2013-10-22 19:25:47 UTC
Oh also, another point with the drones:

Lately, I've been running with 10 hobgobs and 5 salvage drones

With the salvage drones I could then have my paladin set up with 3 tractors that I then used to pull in stuff while the salvage drones went off on their own cleaning.

But now with the 25 m3 drone bay I can't do that, the space HAS to goto the hobgobs.

So now what'll do is bring the new auto tractor looting module, drop it early into a mission room, and fit myself with 3 salvagers instead. :P

The Drake is a Lie

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