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[Rubicon] Ghost Sites & Ascendancy Implant Set

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Senn Denroth
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#201 - 2013-10-22 00:32:49 UTC
CCP Affinity wrote:
Yes, these sites will not always be available and they are fast paced in and out, no nonsense sites that trigger a timer the second the first capsuleer warps to them. I am reading the opinions on here about removing the sites from the system scanner but for a site that will appear so rarely... having it only be accessible to players in exploration fits when it happens to spawn is just a bit weird. If this was a new site that would be available as often as the exploration sites, I wouldn't even think twice about changing this area of the design... but I think when you test them out on SISI you will see how weird it would be to make this very rare content exclusively for players lucky enough to be in exploration fits at the time. It's enough that you will definitely need a data or relic analyser.


Welcome to the definition of exploration, going to the effort of exploring and finding something.. Not having it pop up flashing all over the overview.

I get it that you want it accessible to everyone, but for those explorers that log in for a couple of hours to scan down things that other people are too lazy to scan in the hopes of finding something actually worth something, these sites will be run by all the noobs that idle on their computers all day or just randoms that are passing through a system. How is that fair? I hope the site blows up in their face or something Blink

I look forward to testing them out on SISI but I hope the spawn rate & difficulty get tweaked along the way.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#202 - 2013-10-22 00:51:27 UTC
CCP Affinity wrote:
Yes, these sites will not always be available and they are fast paced in and out, no nonsense sites that trigger a timer the second the first capsuleer warps to them. I am reading the opinions on here about removing the sites from the system scanner but for a site that will appear so rarely... having it only be accessible to players in exploration fits when it happens to spawn is just a bit weird. If this was a new site that would be available as often as the exploration sites, I wouldn't even think twice about changing this area of the design... but I think when you test them out on SISI you will see how weird it would be to make this very rare content exclusively for players lucky enough to be in exploration fits at the time. It's enough that you will definitely need a data or relic analyser.



If they are this rare, they probably should not require one of those modules either.

I had envisaged them being around the spawn rates of gravimetric anomolies but cleared out quicker, based on that I could see people doing other things (say running lowsec escalations) having an analyzer in their cargo. Site appears on the scanner, boom, you warp out of your escalation, refit the analyzer, and run the site.

But if they are so rare that everyone in the system is hoping to see one and checking the system scanner every minute, the site will be over by then.

Personally I can handle flying around with an analyzer on a ship (I prefer the Ishtar and I can live with dropping my the second web, although having only one web would have cost me a big kill on the weekend) but most ships don't have that flexibility. Shield tanked ships in particular suffer greatly from losing a mid slot.


I guess the heart of this issue is - do you intend these sites as a bonus for people that are already explorers, or as something that, whenever it pops up, a quarter of local flies to and fights over? I think the latter would add much more to EVE overall, rather than just pushing a few more mission runners to swap to exploration and the falls in decryptor price that would go along with that.

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Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#203 - 2013-10-22 00:54:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Michael Harari
The % bonus should be more like 30% imo, which is more in line with most implant sets

Also, its very strange to say that you dont want the sites to be only open to people in exploration fits, and then require modules that are wholly useless outside of exploration fits to run the site

Edit: How about requiring them to be probed down, but once someone begins the site anyone can warp to it?
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#204 - 2013-10-22 02:32:20 UTC
Michael Harari wrote:
The % bonus should be more like 30% imo, which is more in line with most implant sets

Also, its very strange to say that you dont want the sites to be only open to people in exploration fits, and then require modules that are wholly useless outside of exploration fits to run the site

Edit: How about requiring them to be probed down, but once someone begins the site anyone can warp to it?



heheh you really want to make sure you are ready to gank them huh :-).

Crap I'll have to put a probe launcher in my utility high to probe down the damn super cosmo runner?!?! Common he probed it out let the entire system warp to him for killing :-P

Yaay!!!!
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#205 - 2013-10-22 03:09:24 UTC
CCP Affinity wrote:
I am reading the opinions on here about removing the sites from the system scanner but for a site that will appear so rarely... having it only be accessible to players in exploration fits when it happens to spawn is just a bit weird. If this was a new site that would be available as often as the exploration sites, I wouldn't even think twice about changing this area of the design... but I think when you test them out on SISI you will see how weird it would be to make this very rare content exclusively for players lucky enough to be in exploration fits at the time. It's enough that you will definitely need a data or relic analyser.


While I can see your perspective, I think you are perhaps holding onto the trunk of the proverbial elephant while I am touching its ear. From my perspective, any kind of rewarding content intended to encourage player interaction should more reward the people who are equipped for that type of content. In your case, "equipped" means carrying a relic analyzer. I would suggest that being "equipped" for random in-space content should also include at least a core probe scanner.

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Greygal
Redemption Road
Affirmative.
#206 - 2013-10-22 05:15:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Greygal
Michael Harari wrote:
Also, its very strange to say that you dont want the sites to be only open to people in exploration fits, and then require modules that are wholly useless outside of exploration fits to run the site

Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
Because CCP do not want this content to be totally ignored by the 98% of people that are not presently in a ship with scanning equipment onboard.

If your scanning equipment is two jumps away, by the time you get there, fit it and get back the site will already have been completed in most space.

Rare sites and required specialist equipment that somewhat cripples fittings on smaller ships do not work together. Even requiring midslot exploration modules will be a pain, but I expect most people running other content will be able to just carry one of those in their cargo while running say missions then dock and refit. Losing one mid slot doesn't gimp a fit the way losing a high slot and a lot of CPU does.


Or you could just carry one of the new Depots ("mobile homes") and assorted modules. When you happen to find one of the new Ghost sites, drop your Depot, refit your ship appropriately, complete the Ghost site, change your fit back, unanchor your depot, and get back to whatever it was you were doing before you happened across the Ghost site :)

No need to waste time docking up and refitting or traveling back and forth to where your hacking equipment is stowed.

What you do for yourself dies with you, what you do for others is immortal.

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Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#207 - 2013-10-22 05:52:35 UTC
One question unrelated to the previous argument (which I won't comment on again; I've stated my position enough).

Will these sites be tuned to be roughly equally available at all times, or will there be a tendency to favor those that play immediately after downtime (as with some other site types)?

I'd suggest you have them instantly respawn somewhere else when cleared, and have them up in 2% of each type of system at any given time (highsec, lowsec, non-sovereign nullsec, sovereign nullsec and wormhole space); and have them somewhat favor more dangerous systems within each category (so non-contiguous highsec systems might be overrepresented on average; likewise C5/C6 systems).

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Talcuris
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#208 - 2013-10-22 06:47:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Talcuris
Considering the warp speed changes, these sites will be insanely dangerous to do if they really are immediately obvious on the anomaly overview.
Any ceptor scout will drop on you like a ten ton banhammer within moments of jumping into your system while you have that nice big hacking game screen to distract you ...
On the other hand, I can totally see fitting an analyzer on an interceptor and going for a long range roam. Bubble immune, insane speed, practically uncatchable.
Don't really know how this going to turn out, good, bad, no idea.

Edit: thinking some more on this, dangerous doesn't begin to describe it. Way worse than mining ice anomalies, because there you usually have intel from the surrounding systems. With the new ceptor/dictor speeds, any neutral coming into the systems means you absolutely have to break off right this moment because they'll be on you in seconds, and once tackled it's either cyno time or the rest of the gang will catch up and say hello and goodbye.

Maybe consider disabling cynos inside these anomalies like in complexes so there's a faint fighting chance?

Bigger ships that are better equipped to fight basically means better target nowadays, I don't really see any way that these sites aren't suicide traps for anything but stabbed cloaky tech 3's (yuck) or interceptors that are fast enough to run. Think I'll call mine Brave Sir Robin ...

Well, at least ghost sites will never be boring this way Cool
Random Woman
Very Professional Corporation
#209 - 2013-10-22 07:52:18 UTC
CCP Affinity wrote:
Yes, these sites will not always be available and they are fast paced in and out, no nonsense sites that trigger a timer the second the first capsuleer warps to them. I am reading the opinions on here about removing the sites from the system scanner but for a site that will appear so rarely... having it only be accessible to players in exploration fits when it happens to spawn is just a bit weird. If this was a new site that would be available as often as the exploration sites, I wouldn't even think twice about changing this area of the design... but I think when you test them out on SISI you will see how weird it would be to make this very rare content exclusively for players lucky enough to be in exploration fits at the time. It's enough that you will definitely need a data or relic analyser.



I completeley agree, its way to much to ask to fit exploration equipment on a ship in order to access exploration content.

I am looking forward to see the new gates that lead to W-space, making that kind of content more accessibile for all of eve, while concord protects those sites and shoots everything tageting the poor player (npcs included).
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#210 - 2013-10-22 08:18:41 UTC
Talcuris wrote:
Considering the warp speed changes, these sites will be insanely dangerous to do if they really are immediately obvious on the anomaly overview.
Any ceptor scout will drop on you like a ten ton banhammer within moments of jumping into your system while you have that nice big hacking game screen to distract you ...


Perhaps the developers feel that this will inevitably lead to conflict, rather than restricting the use of this feature to hisec and safe deep nullsec?

Perhaps some people will specifically fly around in small fast ships (e.g: T1 interceptors and astrometrics frigates packed with hacking mods and implants) specifically to "ninja" any ghost sites that they come across. There's no need to be distracted if your hacking power is so great that you can just apply the Hungry Hippos strategy to relic analysis :)

Talcuris wrote:
Well, at least ghost sites will never be boring this way Cool


Victory favours the brave Cool

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Talcuris
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#211 - 2013-10-22 08:32:42 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:

Victory favours the brave Cool


Yeah, it just _might_ be a bit much that an enemy interceptor can be on top of you in the time it takes a cruiser to align if you do so the moment he pops up in local. No exaggeration, ceppies are THAT fast on the test server.
We'll see.
seth Hendar
I love you miners
#212 - 2013-10-22 08:51:29 UTC
CCP Affinity wrote:
Yes, these sites will not always be available and they are fast paced in and out, no nonsense sites that trigger a timer the second the first capsuleer warps to them. I am reading the opinions on here about removing the sites from the system scanner but for a site that will appear so rarely... having it only be accessible to players in exploration fits when it happens to spawn is just a bit weird. If this was a new site that would be available as often as the exploration sites, I wouldn't even think twice about changing this area of the design... but I think when you test them out on SISI you will see how weird it would be to make this very rare content exclusively for players lucky enough to be in exploration fits at the time. It's enough that you will definitely need a data or relic analyser.

since we are speaking of anoms and exploration, could it be possible that the scanner overlay be really deactivated when i set it to off.

actually, it cycle twice even in off.

it' good looking and all, but only when i need it, in wich case i turn it ON, but when i travel or do any other think non related, this is just polluting my screen every jump.

it's already a pita to do several jump because we cannot turn off the animation or AT LEAST the camera swinging, please make this change: overlay OFF => i don't see it when entering system / space at all...

thanks
Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#213 - 2013-10-22 09:11:06 UTC
Hi.

Having digested this thread, I think I can see what you are aiming at with this new feature and I must applaude you for the design which I believe will bring a new interesting dynamic to the game.

In general the design appears good.

Will there be a slight warning, say 3 seconds, before the NPCs appear? Could be a change in the music *hint hint*.

Will these NPCs be comparable to the 'veteran' types used in the Epic Arcs? Because those guys are nasty in numbers.

Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook 

Sephira Galamore
Inner Beard Society
Kvitravn.
#214 - 2013-10-22 09:43:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Sephira Galamore
Re: probes vs. analyzers:
Having probes out and scanning at the exact time such a site is in system seems very unlikely and I can see why they do not prefer this.
Forcing you to quickly refit an analyzer, when not equipped, may still allow you to be at the site in time.
CCP Affinity
C C P
C C P Alliance
#215 - 2013-10-22 09:48:46 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
One question unrelated to the previous argument (which I won't comment on again; I've stated my position enough).

Will these sites be tuned to be roughly equally available at all times, or will there be a tendency to favor those that play immediately after downtime (as with some other site types)?

I'd suggest you have them instantly respawn somewhere else when cleared, and have them up in 2% of each type of system at any given time (highsec, lowsec, non-sovereign nullsec, sovereign nullsec and wormhole space); and have them somewhat favor more dangerous systems within each category (so non-contiguous highsec systems might be overrepresented on average; likewise C5/C6 systems).



They will not be linked at all to downtime - it will be random. The distribution and difficulty will both be tweaked along the way until we get to a place we are happy with :)

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Team Astro Sparkle
CCP Affinity
C C P
C C P Alliance
#216 - 2013-10-22 09:50:48 UTC
seth Hendar wrote:
CCP Affinity wrote:
Yes, these sites will not always be available and they are fast paced in and out, no nonsense sites that trigger a timer the second the first capsuleer warps to them. I am reading the opinions on here about removing the sites from the system scanner but for a site that will appear so rarely... having it only be accessible to players in exploration fits when it happens to spawn is just a bit weird. If this was a new site that would be available as often as the exploration sites, I wouldn't even think twice about changing this area of the design... but I think when you test them out on SISI you will see how weird it would be to make this very rare content exclusively for players lucky enough to be in exploration fits at the time. It's enough that you will definitely need a data or relic analyser.

since we are speaking of anoms and exploration, could it be possible that the scanner overlay be really deactivated when i set it to off.

actually, it cycle twice even in off.

it' good looking and all, but only when i need it, in wich case i turn it ON, but when i travel or do any other think non related, this is just polluting my screen every jump.

it's already a pita to do several jump because we cannot turn off the animation or AT LEAST the camera swinging, please make this change: overlay OFF => i don't see it when entering system / space at all...

thanks


You should speak to Team Five 0 about this :)

♥ CCP Affinity ♥

Follow me on Twitter

Game Designer for EVE Online

Team Astro Sparkle
CCP Affinity
C C P
C C P Alliance
#217 - 2013-10-22 09:54:17 UTC
Sephira Galamore wrote:
Re: probes vs. analyzers:
Having probes out and scanning at the exact time such a site is in system seems very unlikely and I can see why they do not prefer this.
Forcing you to quickly refit an analyzer, when not equipped, may still allow you to be at the site in time.



Also this gives you the option to go anyway, without the analyzer and get a chance at reclaiming the loot through less legitimate means

♥ CCP Affinity ♥

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Game Designer for EVE Online

Team Astro Sparkle
CCP Affinity
C C P
C C P Alliance
#218 - 2013-10-22 09:54:52 UTC
Jowen Datloran wrote:
Hi.

Having digested this thread, I think I can see what you are aiming at with this new feature and I must applaude you for the design which I believe will bring a new interesting dynamic to the game.

In general the design appears good.

Will there be a slight warning, say 3 seconds, before the NPCs appear? Could be a change in the music *hint hint*.

Will these NPCs be comparable to the 'veteran' types used in the Epic Arcs? Because those guys are nasty in numbers.


The NPCs are still being tweaked but they should be pretty tough and yes, there will be a slight delay

♥ CCP Affinity ♥

Follow me on Twitter

Game Designer for EVE Online

Team Astro Sparkle
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#219 - 2013-10-22 09:56:36 UTC
CCP Affinity wrote:
Sephira Galamore wrote:
Re: probes vs. analyzers:
Having probes out and scanning at the exact time such a site is in system seems very unlikely and I can see why they do not prefer this.
Forcing you to quickly refit an analyzer, when not equipped, may still allow you to be at the site in time.



Also this gives you the option to go anyway, without the analyzer and get a chance at reclaiming the loot through less legitimate means


Now, what is 'less legitimate' about euthanizing a hacking ship (humanely, of course), its pilot's escape capsule, and searching its cargo hold to ensure nothing goes to waste?

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#220 - 2013-10-22 09:58:44 UTC
CCP Affinity wrote:

The NPCs are still being tweaked but they should be pretty tough and yes, there will be a slight delay



Will the rats be akin to mission rats (primarily posing a threat through predictable incoming damage), or more akin to Sleeper AI (posing threats through a somewhat unpredictable combination of damage, capacitor warfare, other EWAR and warp scrambling)?


And can you please give some of them smartbombs, just to keep droneboat pilots like myself on our toes.


I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com