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Crossroads about my training: Shield or Armor
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Plekter
U96E
#1 - 2013-10-21 17:42:28 UTC
I will be joining a wormhole corporation once I'm done with training. Right now my skillplan includes ships like Tengu and Phoenix, but I'm not sure if those shield ships are used much in WH-s. Are there good corporations that live in shield holes?

Should I just get a Proteus and Moros?
Bane Nucleus
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#2 - 2013-10-21 17:43:42 UTC
Always train both.

No trolling please
Alundil
Rolled Out
#3 - 2013-10-21 18:07:26 UTC
Confirming, train all the things. Except the Phoenix.

I'm right behind you
Glyndi
Doom Generation
Best Intentions.
#4 - 2013-10-21 18:12:01 UTC
Phoenix shouldn't be apart of your training :)

But definitely train for both, You won't always be doing things in your home hole.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#5 - 2013-10-21 20:17:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Batelle
its not a question of which to train, its a question of which order to train them it. Hull upgrades 5 is core for all ships and unlocks all t2 resistance mods as well. Repair systems 5, shield compensation 5 is only necessary if you're a shield/armor focused pilot. shield operation/management is core for everyone, get those to 5. Tactical shield manipulation 4 unlocks t2 shield hardeners, even an armor focused pilot should get this.

Eve skills are all about training time vs marginal benefit, and balancing the two to get optimal return on your investment. The skills to use most t2 shield or armor mods is relatively basic, just a handful of low-rank 4's and 5's. So again, your ship choice merely dictates the order or priority that you train them. The only skills where your ship choice dictates what you skill AT ALL would be stuff like getting the compensation skills to 5, or training the capital sized shield boosters or armor reps (local).

So yeah, if you want to fly a Phoenix, you'll still want the armor compensation skills, you just don't need to train them to level 5. But more importantly, don't train a Phoenix, because right now its awful.

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Oska Rus
Free Ice Cream People
#6 - 2013-10-21 20:45:04 UTC
Phoenix must be buffed to havens sooner olater to make capital tengu!
Aquila Sagitta
Blue-Fire
#7 - 2013-10-21 21:43:39 UTC
Don't listen to the trolls drakes are some of the best site running ships in the game besides the tengu. And the phoenix is just like a massive drake. Can practically solo c5/c6 sites Big smile

Blue-Fire Best Fire
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#8 - 2013-10-21 21:44:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Miton
Shields are for girls. Be a man and armour tank all the things.

Considering the entire shield tanking skill plan is shield upgrades 4 and tactical shield manipulation 4, both totaling a grand 4 day skill plan, there's really no reason NOT to train shield tanking. No other shield skills are useful in any way (unless you plan on active tanking for PVE..... i guess....).
Armour actually needs hull upgrades to 5 and your armour comps actually matter and should be pushed to 5 at some point. CCP also added honeycombing (nfi what the new name is) to add another skill you need to 4-5.

In all seriousness, armour is the way to go for wormholes.
Yes you should be able to fit T2 shield hardeners and extenders but that's about it. The only ship that should be shield active tanked in a WH is a PVE tengu, maybe cyclone hulls for PVP if that's your thing but armour is hands down more used in wspace and for good reason.

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Evangelina Nolen
Sama Guild
#9 - 2013-10-21 22:11:17 UTC
What jack said, train shield t2 hardeners & extenders, then go to armor. Don't bother training past tengu for caldari.
Don't train the Phoenix. Ever.
Plekter
U96E
#10 - 2013-10-21 22:29:53 UTC
Good suggestions here.

The main thing putting me off is not training the shield or armor skills. It's the fact that with Proteus I actually have to train hybrids up. I guess It's something that just needs to be done.
Shaok Rikku
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2013-10-22 00:36:14 UTC
I've got max shield and armor skills, and I have to say I tend to favor shield over armor as wel as a lot of the shield ships appeal to me. that being said I can pull up some stupidly amazing tank on shield ships more so than armor. but like most things it is very situational to your environment and your fleet.

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Messoroz
AQUILA INC
#12 - 2013-10-22 00:53:51 UTC
Train hull tanking, **** shield and armor, its boring.
Pobunjenik
Resbroko Liberation Fleet
#13 - 2013-10-22 12:24:38 UTC
Armor tengu and shield legions are all you'll ever need.
Rall Mekin
End-of-Line
#14 - 2013-10-22 15:17:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Rall Mekin
Train core skills like capacitor to high levels first (eventually all to V). Get your core armor tanking and shield tanking skills. Any serious wormhole group is going to want versatile pilots.

HOWEVER, I will point out:

At -EOL we prioritize armor. We even PVE in armor (rr legions/Proetei) predominantly. We do have tengu pilots who I'll probably never convince to give those up (they are good ships), but I'll put it this way:

I have two guys, one only has armor skills and one only has shield skills, and I can only afford to take 1 currently. I will take the armor guy every time, because we live in wormhole space. We fight at 0 on holes and want good resists with the smallest sig possible--that's going to be armor HACs, T3s, Guardians/Oneiros.

That doesn't mean we don't do shield. If we go out of wormhole space, we either go kitchen sink for lulz or a shield nano fleet (usually). We love taking frigates to FW space and just spam all the sites for kills.... So, we use it, but in wormhole space, at least for us, armor takes primacy.

If I were you, I'd get in a good armor T3 (loki probably, as it can go both armor and shield and is always useful in a wh group), get my armor comps up, and then work on shield. I would then train Naglfar, as that is the new dread flavor of the month, though Moros is by no means terrible (Its still slightly better in some ways).

Anyway, just my thoughts.
Deathly hope Cesaille
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2013-11-28 13:36:21 UTC
You will see Armour fleets as commonplace over shield unless fights are to be had in a Pulsar hole.

Many people above me have said it, but i will reiterate:
Hull upgrades 5
Armour compensations to 4 minimum (Explosive to 5)
Armour layering 4
These are your minimum skills for Armour tank.

Training for a Tengu is not a bad idea as it is brilliant for PvE in C1-C4.
Some capitals can speed tank a Phoenix's Torps... That's all i'll say about that.
If you were to go for an Armour T3 i would recommend a Proteus from personal preference.

Most WH Corporations will be happy to accept you providing you have basic tanking skills, can fly a T3 (not as much of a big deal in lower classes) and Decent scanning skills.

Another thing to remember for when you become spacerich. Slaves boost armour HP, Shield tanks have no equivalent implants apart from active tanking.