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Hi-sec profits need to be nerfed in order to expand player activity into low/null

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Postumius Aculeo
United Freemerchants Society
#141 - 2013-10-21 20:20:40 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:

The issue here is that the half that want to change it are mainly in 0.0 and seem to want to do it to force those in hisec into 0.0. Those in hisec don't want to go to 0.0 and cannot see why their ISK levels should be nerfed to force them to do something they won't do and ruins their enjoyment by making it harder to gain shiny stuff.


This argument has come up in every single thread Malcanis has just verbally sighed about. "You want highsec nerfed so you can force highsec people into other sec areas." People want to be able to live and thrive in their own areas that's the simple. Its only easy to do this in highsec because its rewarded so well for the risk that is there. I don't see officer/faction fit vindicators as a common site in lowsec, I don't see it in nullsec or wormholes either. The reason for that is its not rewarded enough for people do decide its a good idea to do that.

I'm going to make the claim that the average person has a hard time thriving in their own space outside of highsec so they make alts and sit them in highsec to enable their actions outside of highsec.

That's only the case because reward > > > risk in highsec.


No, no, no, and NO! That's only the case because most who choose to live in low/null are predominately into PvP, and PvP is a low-nil ISK reward activity. The real argument seems to boil down to those engaged in a low-payoff (ISK-wise) activity demanding that all other activities be nerfed until they pay about the same. "How dare mission runners and miners be able to make money in high sec while I lose hundreds of millions in PvP!" If you want to make large amounts of ISK, do something intended to make ISK. Problem solved.
Postumius Aculeo
United Freemerchants Society
#142 - 2013-10-21 20:27:58 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:


The issue here is that the half that want to change it are mainly in 0.0 and seem to want to do it to force those in hisec into 0.0. Those in hisec don't want to go to 0.0 and cannot see why their ISK levels should be nerfed to force them to do something they won't do and ruins their enjoyment by making it harder to gain shiny stuff.


Aaaaaaand paranoia again! "You just want to make me go to low/nullsec so you can gank me!"

No, they don't. That's just you protecting your golden goose. It's always the same trite and tired response when people tell you that highsec is raking in the cash at an inappropriate level.

So, there are two real possibilities here. Either people who like highsec will stay in highsec because they're cowards and won't go anywhere that doesn't have CONCORD.

Or, they will go because they will only go where the most money can be made, in which case we still need to nerf highsec because the very existence of those people in highsec is a damning condemnation of how much obscene amounts of money can be made there in almost total safety.

So, people who are in highsec now are there for one of two reasons: safety, or money. If they are there for safety, then they won't leave anyway. If they are there for money, that just goes to show that it's too lucrative.


Since we know money can also be made in low/null with the difference really being that it is more dangerous, then the amount of money made in high sec should not really bother you because you would also be making money. The choice of living in dangerous sapce is one players make by themself. If you want non-consentual PVP to not cost you a ship, then you ahve to live in more risky place. CCP made sure that you can also make money in the PVP zones but your own choice mean you have to put more effort into it. Prove to me that the risk/reward ratio is more skewed than CCP intended and I will support your crusade because it will be then proven that the game is not balanced as it should be. Until you can do that, I will go with my own theory of "It's currently implemented the way CCP wants it".

It's not like nerfing the income of high-sec would be hard if they really wanted to nerf it.


CCP have nerfed null income many times but have not nerfed high sec income to match. Over the years this has resulted in an imbalance.


Hate to put my head in the lion's mouth, but your assertion is demonstrably false. There are people reporting making billions in a single day in a HAC running anoms in null; high sec has no revenue stream that can come close to equaling that. Yes, you have to go hunt another anom once you clear each, but if the numbers reported are accurate, than it follows that even the limited supply of anoms provides a much better income than unlimited supplies of L4's.
Yarda Black
The Black Redemption
#143 - 2013-10-21 20:34:27 UTC
Since my motivation to move out of H-sec wasn't ISK-based, I disagree with this argument.


It bothers me that this exact proposal (including every "argument" in it) has been made 5*12 = 60 times since I started playing.

Although the OP could have easily copied and pasted parts from a near limitless supply of identical posts, I'm gonna give him/her credit and asume thats not the case. I'll just be disappointed about the lack of research before posting.

Can somebody copy and past my reply in about a week or three when this post shows up all "new" ? Thanks!
Minabunny
Bogus Brothers Corporation
#144 - 2013-10-21 20:45:58 UTC
You mean force people into low or nullsec.
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#145 - 2013-10-21 20:46:03 UTC
Until Hi-Sec can't make more than 100 isk/hour - they will never be satisfied.

Lvl 4 loot tables have been nerfed three times I can think of (large turret drop rate, meta -0-, and refining rates of items), mission rewards have been nerfed, mission bounties have been nerfed and bounties were nerfed on individual rats across the board. The number of higher end rats (per mission) were nerfed as well, I believe.

Mining has been made more lucrative via the removal of gun mining in the drone regions (and via nerfing the loot tables of the rats), so that's a "buff" for all regions of space (whether they want to take advantage of it in low/null is irrelevant).

Manufactuing (I thought) was supposed to get a Buff in 0.0 - has that not happened? I admit, I haven't kept up with K-Space news for more than a year.

People play the areas they're comfortable with. When they're ready to move, they'll move.

Kicking them isn't going to help.


Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.
Black Canary Jnr
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#146 - 2013-10-21 21:43:16 UTC
Mascha Tzash wrote:
Not beeing "forced" to come online at 3 AM for a CTA or having to do pixellabour to pay a pixelrent for some pixelspace is very convenient for me.


Carebear myths through and through.
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#147 - 2013-10-21 21:46:59 UTC
As there have been numerous threads about more or less the same topic in the recent past, this one gets a lock.

The rules:
16. Redundant and re-posted threads will be locked.

As a courtesy to other forum users, please search to see if there is a thread already open on the topic you wish to discuss. If so, please place your comments there instead. Multiple threads on the same subject clutter up the forums needlessly, causing good feedback and ideas to be lost. Please keep discussions regarding a topic to a single thread.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)