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Crime & Punishment

 
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Station games and Factional Warfare
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Eliza Loney
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2013-10-20 23:23:03 UTC
This is going to be a whine post!

Yes I lost a ship or two this way, yes I think it is wrong.

I recently joined the Gallente militia in the fight against the Caldari. I had gone to the Federal Defense Union station in Villore(0.5) to check out the LP rewards available. When I un-docked a Caldari FW target pilot with 100M+ SP in a fast locking Legion killed both my ship and pod on the un-dock ( less than 10km away).

Now while I understand that I am a valid war target and this whole thing was perfectly valid / legal in EvE, I fail to understand why a Caldari FW pilot can even get close to the stations without he guns lighting them up. They are at war after all. Its not an affiliated corp, it is the two main corps fighting the war.

I think this is wrong, I would expect my corp and faction militia to at least attempt to ill this guy for even being close by, never mind killing frigates on the undock.

Please comment below to see if this is enough of a problem to get CSM /CCP to address it.
Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
#2 - 2013-10-20 23:35:37 UTC
Nelson will be along shortly to address your problem.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#3 - 2013-10-21 01:19:19 UTC
Would you like to purchase a revenge contract?

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Eliza Loney
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-10-21 01:28:48 UTC
Sadly if the 750 million isk bounty is not enough I can't afford a revenge contract anyway
Violet Crumble
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#5 - 2013-10-21 04:26:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Violet Crumble
1. Villore, although it has some Navy NPCs flying around, is fairly easy to move around in without seeing them; and

2. Ctrl + Space to stop ship and re-dock if you see an enemy on grid when you undock. You have invulnerabilty for 30 seconds unless you do something to make your ship move off it's undock path. So it's easy enough to avoid being killed.

If you are not taking the time, right next to FW space, to check your grid when you undock from a station, then you probably should start doing that.

I kind of get where you are coming from, but it's only Navy NPCs that will attack the Caldari in Gallente empire space, not gate guns, station guns, Concord, Customs or the Police. It's up to the military NPCs to react, not the civilian NPCs. So if there aren't any Navy present, then you need to take care of your own safety.

Funtime Factory - We put the fun back in funtime
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#6 - 2013-10-21 05:00:50 UTC
I am shocked at this accusation.
Members of the honorable Caldari militia would not ever take part in such a dishonorable act.

If I were you, I would only undock in Officer Fit T3 cruisers from now on just to be safe.

Will have a word to fellow members of CalMil tonight and pass around a donation plate to fully reimburse the ship that was so wrongfully sploded.
I can not believe such evil could exist in eve and especially among the wonderful and painfully good looking members of Caldari Militia.


You should post about this in all sections of the forums so that everyone in Eve is aware that when you join a 23/7/365 war you can be shot at 23/7/365.

W&T is where is is most likely to be seen as It is the Faction Warfare section. Please cross post there.


If the Gallente NPCs didn't kill the WT then there is only one logical way to solve this - Delete the NPC's.

But to be fair - Gallente NPC's are like Gallente PC's. They didn't shoot him because they only had 10-1 number advantage.
Once the Gallente NPC's get 20x the numbers up - they should be ready to attack that lone evil Caldari.







(Whoever killed the OP - nice work)

https://soundcloud.com/ibanezlaney
Iudicium Vastus
Doomheim
#7 - 2013-10-21 05:09:55 UTC
Yeah, I see that kind of bs all the time in Amarr FW. Worse yet I see Minmatar militia hanging casually around Amarr, a 1.0 system AND main Amarr family trade hub and racial home system, so WTF?! Makes no logical sense at all.

But I then undock in a heavy tanked battleship BC or even BS and stare them down and see if they make a move.

[u]Nerf stabs/cloaks in FW?[/u] No, just.. -Fit more points -Fit faction points -Bring a friend or two with points (an alt is fine too)
Jade Marbles
Marble Ventures
#8 - 2013-10-21 11:07:47 UTC
Eliza Loney wrote:
n 10km away).

Now while I understand that I am a valid war target and this whole thing was perfectly valid / legal in EvE, I fail to understand why a Caldari FW pilot can even get close to the stations without he guns lighting them up.

The factions are at war, DED isn't involved.

So all they have to deal with is the faction police.
And they are not much to worry about.

Alternatively, rally your militia and kick them out? It is, afterall, Gallente highsec they're harrassing you in.
Paul Tsukaya
Doomheim
#9 - 2013-10-21 22:08:23 UTC
Subjects to study:
* Insta dock and undock bookmarks
* Tanking your ship so you don't get 1 volleyed
* Safely warping out your pod when you lose your ship
* Undock invulnerability.
* Aggression timers.
* Faction police mechanics.

If you're going to survive anywhere, even highsec, you want to become the one playing the station games rather than the one getting played. You don't need 100m sp and expensive ships to come out on top.
Harreeb Alls
God of Terrorr
Domain Research and Mining Inst.
#10 - 2013-10-22 05:54:55 UTC
Ctrl space, and either re-dock or warp to an instant undock bookmark.

That is how to avoid this, however, I do agree that this system has some issues. The faction police use E-war, the problem is that being damped by the gallente police, webbed by the minmatar police, or tracking disrupted (is it neuts? not to familiar with their police... anyway) by the amarr has no where near the same affect as being JAMMED by the caldari police. One of these things stops you from fighting the police and camping the enemy militia high sec docs, the rest do not. The other issue is the fact that they can dock at all. In faction warfare you cannot dock in the low sec systems which enemy milita controls. I think this should include high sec. In minmatar FW the Hek and rens undocks are camped quite often by amarr militia. They often use Legions with 200+k ehp. So in order to do anything about this you literally to have them aggressed, scrammed, webbed and then have about 20 battleships in order to break their tank in time before they can deaggress and dock. But they also might have neutral logi, which will rep them and then dock.

I don't have a problem with this behavior, but it is WAY, WAY, WAY toooooo difficult to punish it. You need an amazing setup, patience, and a little luck or incompetence on their part just to land 1 kill on some one who probably gets 10 kills per hour doing this. It's a situation of massive reward and nearly 0 risk.

One change I think that could fix a ton of the lame high sec station games that go on with not only the factions but wardecs in general is to just modify the aggression timer. Maybe double or quadruple the time it takes to dock after aggressing in high sec.
Why should the timer be the same for high security space as it is in low security space?

At least there would be some risk for these people. If they see a bunch of war targets in local, they just dock. If you wait in the next system with a fleet, you lose half the time you have to kill them when you jump gate and warp to the station. They will deagress as soon as they see the local spike with war targets.

These mechanics suck, and their is way to much benefit to playing station games, and not nearly enough risk. It is way too difficult to punish them.
Paul Tsukaya
Doomheim
#11 - 2013-10-22 17:45:25 UTC
I made a thread about this in features and ideas: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=289005

Let me know your thoughts!
Malcolm Shinhwa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2013-10-22 17:51:19 UTC
Eliza Loney wrote:
Sadly if the 750 million isk bounty is not enough I can't afford a revenge contract anyway


Bounties are pointless. If someone can and wants to shoot another player in Eve, they shoot them. The bounty doesn't even factor in to the equation. You wasted your isk.

[i]"The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental[/i]."
Baaldor
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#13 - 2013-10-22 18:09:34 UTC
Iudicium Vastus wrote:


But I then undock in a heavy tanked battleship BC or even BS and stare them down and see if they make a move.




..................HHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!
Baron' Soontir Fel
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#14 - 2013-10-22 22:32:54 UTC
high sec FW station games are really dumb.... especially because the enemy can dock in your station if you undock in something bigger than he can take.
Sean Parisi
Blackrise Vanguard
#15 - 2013-10-24 21:19:59 UTC
If you take no actions you can simply redock up. Live your life as a filthy Gallentean Peasant and everyone else would be happier.