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Remote rep to avoid gank?
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Johny Tyler
Solar Forged
#1 - 2013-10-18 20:19:12 UTC
I hope this qualifies as a "tactic."

I was thinking about getting an alt to do mining in high sec while I study for school.

I know ganking occasionally happens. Since I already fly a logi I was thinking I would just sit a cap stable logi beside the miner alt and stagger the rep cycles so hopefully anyone who took more than one volley to gank couldn't do it.

But then I am not even sure what would happen in this situation. Would my reps stop while eve asked me if I want to continue repping? Then secondly I am not sure what the ROE (rules of engagement) in high sec are like. The only pvp I have done in high sec has been during a war. If I was repping my miner then someone shot at him and I continue to rep, would I be vulnerable to retaliation from the corp/fleet of the other player, or just by the other player himself? Or if he gets concorded will he be able to come back with another ship and blow up my logi, or will concord not allow him to fly a ship in the system for a time?

Sorry this isn't a question about more hardcore pvp. But it would help me to know some more specifics about high sec ROE and how they would apply in this situation.

Thanks,
JT
Anslo
Scope Works
#2 - 2013-10-18 20:34:51 UTC
Remote rep could be neuted. Your best bet might be 4-6 cap chained augorors RRing miners and themselves. Even then, they might not be able to rep through the deeps, and will go suspect to be freely engaged by aggressors.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#3 - 2013-10-18 21:35:57 UTC
yeah that would work but they might just gank your logi first, so make sure to buffer it.

Gevlon Goblin would suggest you just fit your retriever/mack for max tank instead of yield and they'll leave you alone (for the most part). If you want an alt to be AFKing alongside a miner, you might as well just have the alt in a retriever.

If you do have gank issues, just pack up and move to a different constellation. Miner gankers are common, but they are not everywhere.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Humang
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#4 - 2013-10-20 10:01:32 UTC
I'm more inclined to say that if a ganker wants to pop you, you are going to pop.

You are far better off just making yourself a small a target as possible, get a retriever and keep it cheap (for the love of god don't fit any dead-space mods)

Not many people are going to bother with a 30m mining barge when there's a 100m hulk next system over.

AFK cloaking thread Summary - Provided by Paikis Good Post Etiquette - Provided by CCP Grayscale
Anslo
Scope Works
#5 - 2013-10-20 17:56:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Anslo
The other possibility would be to act as bait and scare the gankers off. Have about 5-10 instalock afs or Dessie's off grid and aligned to you. Buffer tank the **** out of your miners and pop combat drones once you see gankers warp in. As soon as you see em have your fleet warp in to jump em.

Or, have eyes on the station you know the gankers dock at. Make eyes cloaked. As soon as eyes see them undock have the aligned fleet warp in and blap those nerds.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Princess Bride
SharkNado
#6 - 2013-10-20 18:40:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Princess Bride
I would suggest ECM instead of logi. ECCM a Blackbird, fit it with all Gallente jams in the mids. Have it orbit your miner at 100km. If a flock of catalysts land, pre-heat your mid rack, wait for them to go red and jam as many as you can. The ECCM prevents them from suiciding a Griffin to jam your Blackbird out. All Gallente racial ECM because it's always Catalysts. Orbiting makes it tough to land suicide gankers on your Blackbird. The jams turns off their DPS like flicking a lightswitch leading to most of their potential damage being removed long before CONCORD even wipes the donut powder off their mouths. As the first jam cycle wears off, CONCORD should be landing, assuming .5 or .6 system, sooner if not. But actually what will happen is they'll realize all of this and just pop someone on another belt, which is a good outcome.

If you go with logi, be sure to ECCM it enough to withstand a suicide Griffin. Also, it should orbit at max range, and max speed, to make for a difficult warpin.

http://eveprincessbride.wordpress.com/
GordonO
BURN EDEN
#7 - 2013-10-20 21:20:44 UTC
Princess Bride wrote:
I would suggest ECM instead of logi. ECCM a Blackbird, fit it with all Gallente jams in the mids. Have it orbit your miner at 100km. If a flock of catalysts land, pre-heat your mid rack, wait for them to go red and jam as many as you can. The ECCM prevents them from suiciding a Griffin to jam your Blackbird out. All Gallente racial ECM because it's always Catalysts. Orbiting makes it tough to land suicide gankers on your Blackbird. The jams turns off their DPS like flicking a lightswitch leading to most of their potential damage being removed long before CONCORD even wipes the donut powder off their mouths. As the first jam cycle wears off, CONCORD should be landing, assuming .5 or .6 system, sooner if not. But actually what will happen is they'll realize all of this and just pop someone on another belt, which is a good outcome.

If you go with logi, be sure to ECCM it enough to withstand a suicide Griffin. Also, it should orbit at max range, and max speed, to make for a difficult warpin.


You will not have time to do anything with your ECM boat, ganking is quick.
Best is to use a mackinaw and put a decent buffer tank on it, mids, em ward, ext, invul, lows DC and 2 ext rigs. If you really worried, do the same to a skiff... it has less ore space but doubt anyone is going to gank it. Just check the KM's all those who were ganked had no buffer.. especially no DC.
The gankers scan your ship in the belt in another mining barge.. they don't just cowboy in.. its an art.. believe it or not..

... What next ??
Robbin Sund
#8 - 2013-10-21 05:30:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Robbin Sund
Johny Tyler wrote:
I hope this qualifies as a "tactic."



Get into a decent lowpopulated system, outside of caldari space is usually a big +.
Sit in your Retriever in highsec, afk-mine until your heart burst, go to station, drop off.
Even if your retriever blows up, fit it cheap, ie, stripminers, mining lowslots, and that rockscanner.
GG.

Been afk-mining in my earlier days without whatsoever issue, get yourself some basic drones that can fly around if a small rat decide to show up, rarely happens in a good system.

Its all about the systems and how close it is to other big places. ;D
Never seen a suicideganker while mining myself, canflippers might show up thou.

One way trip! Why dont you drive?
Princess Bride
SharkNado
#9 - 2013-10-21 17:00:38 UTC
GordonO wrote:

You will not have time to do anything with your ECM boat, ganking is quick.
Best is to use a mackinaw and put a decent buffer tank on it, mids, em ward, ext, invul, lows DC and 2 ext rigs. If you really worried, do the same to a skiff... it has less ore space but doubt anyone is going to gank it. Just check the KM's all those who were ganked had no buffer.. especially no DC.
The gankers scan your ship in the belt in another mining barge.. they don't just cowboy in.. its an art.. believe it or not..


How do you reach that conclusion? Ganking is "quick?" How about we take a look at the actual times.

The whole point of ganking in a .5 or .6 system is to buy time before CONCORD arrives. Catalyst ganks are about the DPS not the alpha. CONCORD response time in 0.5 and 0.6 is roughly 25-30 seconds before they destroy an attacker. So if you can shut down the DPS of 5 of the gankers 10 seconds into their attack, you can substantially lower the total DPS they put out in the 30 seconds total they have to work with. 5 seconds to realize what's happening, 5 more to lock them up, 20 seconds of them being jammed out, and then CONCORD arrives, jams them out further, and destroys their ships.

Plus, as I said, and you agree, they don't just "cowboy in". They are on-grid scanning your tank, and seeing your Blackbird. The Blackbird means they MUST have a plan for countering it, or they will fail. That means 5 extra Catalysts or something else to counter the Blackbird must be brought along.... Or they can just go after the guys in the other belt without a blackbird. People always pick the path of least resistance.

http://eveprincessbride.wordpress.com/
GordonO
BURN EDEN
#10 - 2013-10-21 18:49:33 UTC
Princess Bride wrote:
GordonO wrote:

You will not have time to do anything with your ECM boat, ganking is quick.
Best is to use a mackinaw and put a decent buffer tank on it, mids, em ward, ext, invul, lows DC and 2 ext rigs. If you really worried, do the same to a skiff... it has less ore space but doubt anyone is going to gank it. Just check the KM's all those who were ganked had no buffer.. especially no DC.
The gankers scan your ship in the belt in another mining barge.. they don't just cowboy in.. its an art.. believe it or not..


How do you reach that conclusion? Ganking is "quick?" How about we take a look at the actual times.

The whole point of ganking in a .5 or .6 system is to buy time before CONCORD arrives. Catalyst ganks are about the DPS not the alpha. CONCORD response time in 0.5 and 0.6 is roughly 25-30 seconds before they destroy an attacker. So if you can shut down the DPS of 5 of the gankers 10 seconds into their attack, you can substantially lower the total DPS they put out in the 30 seconds total they have to work with. 5 seconds to realize what's happening, 5 more to lock them up, 20 seconds of them being jammed out, and then CONCORD arrives, jams them out further, and destroys their ships.

Plus, as I said, and you agree, they don't just "cowboy in". They are on-grid scanning your tank, and seeing your Blackbird. The Blackbird means they MUST have a plan for countering it, or they will fail. That means 5 extra Catalysts or something else to counter the Blackbird must be brought along.... Or they can just go after the guys in the other belt without a blackbird. People always pick the path of least resistance.


20-30 second is quick. I suggest you give it a try. Have 2 clients up, get a corpie to shoot at one ship with a catalyst, while you sit back and read a book with your hands of the mouse. Once his first volley hits (probably going to have to adjust your shield alarm up) , grab mouse, switch screens and jam out the shooting ship. You will not not stop him from getting off his 2-3 volleys.
The question is around AFK mining, so responses will be slower than if you sitting waiting for it and I doubt you will go from doing something else to locking and jamming to within 10seconds as you suggest. Seeing your black bird isn't going to change their tactic.

... What next ??
Princess Bride
SharkNado
#11 - 2013-10-22 15:30:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Princess Bride
Ugh.

You've posted more subjective declaratory statements without any numbers to back them up.

Typical high-ish SP Catalyst has 430 DPS, 700 Alpha.
Typical buffer-tanked Mackinaw has 33,000 EHP. More if you tank vs. hybrids specifically.
Assume CONCORD has been drawn off properly in a .5 system. (Best case scenario for the gankers). The window is 30 secs.

Then do the math.

430 DPS * 30 seconds = 12,900 damage

Therefore, you would need a minimum of 3 Catalysts to gank the Mackinaw in 30 seconds. If you can shut down their DPS 10 seconds into the gank, the gank will fail as they'll only be able to do 12,900 damage. If you can shut it down within 20 seconds, they still fail, as they will only do 25,800 damage. Assuming the OP is studying at the computer, and not on the other side of his house, he should be able to react soon enough once he hears his shield alarms at 99% go off. If not, it's not because the tactic was faulty. The setup I suggested should be able to survive an attempted gank by at least 6 Catalysts, meaning the gankers must bring over TWICE the numbers usually required to gank an unprotected ship if they want to be sure of success. Why waste over twice the ships, or risk failure, when there's another Mack one belt over in the same system without a Blackbird escort?

The fact that they can get off "2-3 volleys" is not going to make a difference. That's only (700 Alpha * 3 * 3) 6,300 damage on a ship with 33k EHP. They need to get off around 47 volleys (33,000/700) total divided by the number of ships they have. So if it's 3 ships, they need to fire around 16 (47/3) volleys.

http://eveprincessbride.wordpress.com/
Lydia vanPersie
Soltech Armada
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#12 - 2013-10-22 16:10:43 UTC
Princess Bride wrote:
Ugh.
Typical high-ish SP Catalyst has 430 DPS, 700 Alpha.


Yeah, you have no idea what you're talking about.

(^;
Princess Bride
SharkNado
#13 - 2013-10-22 16:13:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Princess Bride
Lydia vanPersie wrote:
Princess Bride wrote:
Ugh.
Typical high-ish SP Catalyst has 430 DPS, 700 Alpha.


Yeah, you have no idea what you're talking about.


I'm talking about this:

[Catalyst, EVEMon Catalyst: 430 OH-DPS_ 23day Train_ Hulkageddon]
Linear Flux Stabilizer I
Linear Flux Stabilizer I
Linear Flux Stabilizer I

Warp Scrambler I
Civilian Afterburner

Regulated Light Ion Phase Cannon I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Regulated Light Ion Phase Cannon I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Regulated Light Ion Phase Cannon I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Regulated Light Ion Phase Cannon I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Regulated Light Ion Phase Cannon I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Regulated Light Ion Phase Cannon I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Regulated Light Ion Phase Cannon I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Regulated Light Ion Phase Cannon I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S

Small Hybrid Burst Aerator I
Small Hybrid Collision Accelerator I
[empty rig slot]

What are you talking about? Are we going to start pretending that most high sec gank cats out there run T2 weapons and are piloted with all 5s for skills? If that was the case, the gankers could use two instead of three Catalysts, but the rest of the math remains the same. And the less ships they bring, the easier it is to jam out the more centralized DPS.

http://eveprincessbride.wordpress.com/
Lydia vanPersie
Soltech Armada
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#14 - 2013-10-22 18:25:27 UTC
Princess Bride wrote:
Lydia vanPersie wrote:
Princess Bride wrote:
Ugh.
Typical high-ish SP Catalyst has 430 DPS, 700 Alpha.


Yeah, you have no idea what you're talking about.


I'm talking about this:

[Catalyst, EVEMon Catalyst: 430 OH-DPS_ 23day Train_ Hulkageddon]
Linear Flux Stabilizer I
Linear Flux Stabilizer I
Linear Flux Stabilizer I

Warp Scrambler I
Civilian Afterburner

Regulated Light Ion Phase Cannon I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Regulated Light Ion Phase Cannon I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Regulated Light Ion Phase Cannon I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Regulated Light Ion Phase Cannon I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Regulated Light Ion Phase Cannon I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Regulated Light Ion Phase Cannon I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Regulated Light Ion Phase Cannon I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Regulated Light Ion Phase Cannon I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S

Small Hybrid Burst Aerator I
Small Hybrid Collision Accelerator I
[empty rig slot]

What are you talking about? Are we going to start pretending that most high sec gank cats out there run T2 weapons and are piloted with all 5s for skills? If that was the case, the gankers could use two instead of three Catalysts, but the rest of the math remains the same. And the less ships they bring, the easier it is to jam out the more centralized DPS.


Your fit is bad and pretty far short of what can be done with t1 gear.

(^;
Princess Bride
SharkNado
#15 - 2013-10-23 00:13:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Princess Bride
It is what it is. A 23 day alt Catalyst. I'd love to see your fit.

Edit: According to BC you fly this 431 DPS fit:

[Catalyst]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer I
Magnetic Field Stabilizer I
Magnetic Field Stabilizer I

Initiated Harmonic Warp Scrambler I
Sensor Booster I, Scan Resolution Script

Regulated Light Neutron Phase Cannon I, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge S
Regulated Light Neutron Phase Cannon I, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge S
Regulated Light Neutron Phase Cannon I, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge S
Regulated Light Neutron Phase Cannon I, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge S
Regulated Light Neutron Phase Cannon I, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge S
Regulated Light Neutron Phase Cannon I, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge S
Regulated Light Neutron Phase Cannon I, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge S
Regulated Light Neutron Phase Cannon I, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge S

Small Hybrid Collision Accelerator I
Small Hybrid Collision Accelerator I
[empty rig slot]

and this 429 DPS fit...with no mids...

[Catalyst]
Insulated Stabilizer Array I
Insulated Stabilizer Array I
Insulated Stabilizer Array I

[empty med slot]
[empty med slot]

Light Neutron Blaster I, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Neutron Blaster I, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Neutron Blaster I, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Neutron Blaster I, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Neutron Blaster I, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Neutron Blaster I, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Neutron Blaster I, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Neutron Blaster I, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge S

Small Hybrid Burst Aerator I
Small Hybrid Collision Accelerator I
[empty rig slot]

So I'm having trouble seeing your point, as the fit I posted has 433 DPS.

http://eveprincessbride.wordpress.com/
GordonO
BURN EDEN
#16 - 2013-10-23 18:35:18 UTC
Princess Bride wrote:
Ugh.

You've posted more subjective declaratory statements without any numbers to back them up.

.


LMAO.. really.. where does your maths take into account the time it will take you to get to the keyboard and lock and jam something... Theoretically time travel is possible, no one don it yet...

Perhaps you just can't read.. the word AFK... AWAY FROM KEYBOARD has been mentioned and needs to be considered in your mathematical calculation, you would then need to measure the players reaction time and distance from the keyboard, include that in you equation then come back with some proper paper analysis.

Suggest you put the calculator aside undock and try it.

... What next ??
Princess Bride
SharkNado
#17 - 2013-10-24 13:25:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Princess Bride
GordonO wrote:
Princess Bride wrote:
Ugh.

You've posted more subjective declaratory statements without any numbers to back them up.

.


LMAO.. really.. where does your maths take into account the time it will take you to get to the keyboard and lock and jam something... Theoretically time travel is possible, no one don it yet...

Perhaps you just can't read.. the word AFK... AWAY FROM KEYBOARD has been mentioned and needs to be considered in your mathematical calculation, you would then need to measure the players reaction time and distance from the keyboard, include that in you equation then come back with some proper paper analysis.

Suggest you put the calculator aside undock and try it.


Actually, "the word AFK... AWAY FROM KEYBOARD" has NOT been mentioned by the OP. (Nor is it even a word, but okay.) He said he would be studying at the same time, which could quite easily be AT the keyboard. So, perhaps, YOU cannot read.

I also take some time into account for his studying, every time, when making my calculations...between 5 and 15 seconds of "reaction time". I already know that I can lock someone up in the time suggested because I have done it, many many many times, so no I don't need to do it one more time to satisfy you.

Math is actually a rather important part of this game. I suggest you take some time to learn how to use it.

http://eveprincessbride.wordpress.com/
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2013-10-24 13:42:49 UTC
Johny Tyler wrote:

I know ganking occasionally happens. Since I already fly a logi I was thinking I would just sit a cap stable logi beside the miner alt and stagger the rep cycles so hopefully anyone who took more than one volley to gank couldn't do it.

But then I am not even sure what would happen in this situation. Would my reps stop while eve asked me if I want to continue repping?

there are 2 options:
1) you have green SS on your logi. As soon as your miner gets attacked logi stops assisting. => miner is dead
2) you have yellow/red SS on your logi. As soon as miner gets attacked your logi becomes suspect => miner and logi are dead

better option would be: train logi a little and make him OGB. You don't need lots of SP thrown into it. Just BC + T1-T2 medal + 1 link for resistances would help against any unprepared (and even against not 100% prepared) attacks.
Just choose better tank for miner (armor/shield) and go making it stronger with bonuses.

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
GordonO
BURN EDEN
#19 - 2013-10-24 16:19:18 UTC
Princess Bride wrote:
GordonO wrote:
Princess Bride wrote:
Ugh.

You've posted more subjective declaratory statements without any numbers to back them up.

.


LMAO.. really.. where does your maths take into account the time it will take you to get to the keyboard and lock and jam something... Theoretically time travel is possible, no one don it yet...

Perhaps you just can't read.. the word AFK... AWAY FROM KEYBOARD has been mentioned and needs to be considered in your mathematical calculation, you would then need to measure the players reaction time and distance from the keyboard, include that in you equation then come back with some proper paper analysis.

Suggest you put the calculator aside undock and try it.


Actually, "the word AFK... AWAY FROM KEYBOARD" has NOT been mentioned by the OP. (Nor is it even a word, but okay.) He said he would be studying at the same time, which could quite easily be AT the keyboard. So, perhaps, YOU cannot read.

I also take some time into account for his studying, every time, when making my calculations...between 5 and 15 seconds of "reaction time". I already know that I can lock someone up in the time suggested because I have done it, many many many times, so no I don't need to do it one more time to satisfy you.

Math is actually a rather important part of this game. I suggest you take some time to learn how to use it.


LOL..you win at eve.. nice..
Sorry OP I seem to have sidetracked your thread.

... What next ??
Katherine Raven
ALTA Industries
Intergalactic Conservation Movement
#20 - 2013-10-24 16:53:29 UTC
Personally I fly skiffs. I don't really worry about gankers. I know that if they really want me to pop, I will. At the same time though, I know that if i pop, they had to really work at it, so good on them.

Best defense is to just make blowing you up as inconvenient as possible.