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Proposal for changes to Faction Warfare

Author
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#21 - 2013-10-20 15:51:47 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
The problem ... And farmers will never form up togethter and fight, because they are not here to fight, they are only parasite here to leach LP as much as they can. No mecanic will ever force them to team up and fight....

No, the problem is that the majority, of which you are sadly part Cry, no longer even questions the right-to-existence of farmers in what is supposedly a warzone. The mechanics that spawned those nasty creatures need to be changed drastically or supplemental mechanics be put in place to make them a lot more vulnerable to ass-kickings.
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Then the idea of a frontline is interresting, but I'm affraid that would concentrate too much the action in the warzone, which is the objective of such a change but would also change the scale of the conflict IMO (need larger entities to hold the lines) and would also be a bit unsandboxy.

Doesn't have to be an arbitrary concentration of action such as "can only cap within X jumps of Y system", there are options that keeps with the sandbox nature and still accomplishes the goal. Foremost among them is using incentives to encourage people to take the fight (read: plexing) closer to hostiles.
If for instance LP rewards for doing any anything war related decreased by say 33% per gate away from friendly space (n+1) you'd incentivize plexing and combat in a 1 (100%) - 3 (33%) jump zone while keeping the option of 'taking one for the team' by going deep, getting zero LP, but opening up even more frontline.

Goes towards solving the issue of farming as well since farmers exist only because of the insane amount of gain they get for not taking any risk. Ninja plexing close to enemy stashes/HQs is a lot more dangerous than living forever in the hinterlands.

Combine it with missions only spawning in hostile space, Plex timers getting auto-run-to-reset function when unoccupied and you have created a theatre in which taking the fight is preferable to cloaking/running/stabbing when it comes to LP generation.

Other things that I think is worth looking at:
- Timer deficit (ie. runs slower) when in inappropriate ship (more farmer slapping through mechanics).
- Adding a EHP component to plexing so that above can be partially or entirely mitigated by brute force (ex. T1 frigate gangs doing smalls). Possible way is to add structures on plex grid but away from capture area that can be shot to take chunks off the timer to a hard limit, say 50% .. do you send the gang to save the time and possibly sacrificing the button if an enemy comes in or ...
- Let system upgrade levels influence belt rat compositions.

But ... will never happen. CCP must be rather pleased with the status quo as there has not been so much as a drunken statement to the contrary .. compare it to various blurbs regarding ECM, Sov, Links etc. over the years and you'll (hopefully) see what I mean.
Flyinghotpocket
Ember Inc.
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#22 - 2013-10-20 15:56:19 UTC
Dante Chance wrote:


So my proposal is that changes be considered to make FW a solo (and no, do not tell me that hunting a stabbed cloaking rifter is solo) or small to mid fleet area by a version of the following:

a) Replacing the capture system from a 'hold' objective or plex for a determined period of time to 'destroy' objective with a determined amount of HP requiring for example four battle cruisers at minimum to destroy a Major in 25 mins . Obviously you don't need four BC's but less would mean a lot more time to destroy;

b) The requirement for a ship class to be present in order for the capture of plexes. At least one Battle Cruiser for Majors and a Cruiser required for mediums etc; and

c) Removing the ability to enter a plex or mission with Warp Core Stabs. Not sure how this can be achieved but I am sure if you can restrict classes of ships, there would have to be a way to restrict modules in the same fashion that MWD can not be (not sure if that's changed) used in some instances.

As I stated earlier, the intent is to make FW what it used to be with good fights. If you don't think this will work and have other ideas, then reply to this thread and see what we can generate. If you think FW is fun the way it is, then trust me, you weren't around initially and I can assure you that you would enjoy it even better if it changed.


i agree with all that dante has said, and i would support any and all of these additions/solutions

Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro

Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#23 - 2013-10-20 18:33:48 UTC
Condor Amarr wrote:
We did, for the better part of 3 years. If you wanted solo fighting, it was there to be had (actual fighting, not grabbing a SB in a mission or a no-gun plexer). If you wanted to roam as part of 3-4 man group, there would always be another group of a similar size doing the same thing. And to top it all off, there was regular (almost daily for a while) bigger fights, of 20+ man fleets on both sides. It wasn't a case of "blobbing" because both sides were actually quite evenly matched.



You could do it for 3 years due to what FW mechanic now changed?

Because all the rpoposal I read (also in this thread) are all based on enforcing/promoting larger numbers to achive some goal. It works: you add game mechanics to make larger numbers and fleets needed or convenient to do something (like in null) and player will aggregate around it.

But doing so you progressively erode or crush the room left fir solo/small gang. And all these "proposal" I read go in this direction.



David Devant
CTRL-Q
#24 - 2013-10-20 18:49:21 UTC
Black Watch are much missed.

I actually like the basic idea behind the proposals though would disagree with some aspects of the implementation. Should be fewer plexes which throw out more lp but require an organised approach to tackle. The capacity for properly fitted small ships to undertake plexing solo should also be retained however, but not so ubiquitously.

At root we're talking about a form of pve which pays more per hour than standard lvl4s and can be undertaken with a day old character. This is fundamentally broken and needs to be swept away pronto.
Dante Chance
Black Watch Guard
#25 - 2013-10-21 01:26:03 UTC
Thank you David, and the enjoyment and exciting times that guys like you, members of IRON OXIDE and LNA provided us are what kept us fighting the good fight for us long as we did Big smile

Sura, The fact is that before LP rewards came in, those that plexed were there for the most part for a fight. In regards to finding targets solo, then I would agree with your concern if there was more solo fights to have. Currently, most targets that are plexing will run from a solo engagement just as quick as a small fleet entering the plex.

Around our old home system, there were farmers that would use Jaguars, Dare Devils, Dramiels and Thrashers on top of the usual frigs that will not engage a single target in a lesser ship. Then laugh about trying to catch their stabbed Thrasher in your INS. Believe it or not but Thrashers are actually a formidable destroyer that do well against most small to mid range targets. I had two Cynabals run from a Vengence in which they explained that they were in 'Plexing Cynas'.

And that's the point, a ship capable of running a plex should be capable of fighting. If I catch a plexer and manage to out number points of his WCS... I do not consider that a solo fight.

So if a Thrasher is running from an INS or Coercer and a Dramiel is running from a Punisher when there is no one else in system apart from you and your target... then what do you propose I ship down to, would they fight an Inpairor perhaps?

And in reference to people stating that I am calling for large fleets and that has no place in FW etc, The normal size fleet we used to roam was on average about 4 people towards the end... If you think a 4 man fleet is large, then we disagree on what a small flee

Yes there are fights to have on occasions, but they are too few and far between and quite often its by outwitting a non combat ship.
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