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Getting newbies out of their comfort zone

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Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#141 - 2013-10-20 11:59:16 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:


EVE is a funny thing, but the fun is running out. No matter how hard they try, they're mindlocked in the "must be this tall" mentality. Latest case in point: the just announced exploration "Ghost sites" which may drop BPC to build player-made implants. Do we need to ask what are the chances of such a drop in hisec Ghost sites? "You must be this tall to play", effectively. Yet they'll take your money no matter else... Roll



If you actually believe this


You have not only handicapped your EvE experience DRASTICALLY



You may even be a detriment to those you seek to mentor

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#142 - 2013-10-20 12:03:34 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:


EVE is a funny thing, but the fun is running out. No matter how hard they try, they're mindlocked in the "must be this tall" mentality. Latest case in point: the just announced exploration "Ghost sites" which may drop BPC to build player-made implants. Do we need to ask what are the chances of such a drop in hisec Ghost sites? "You must be this tall to play", effectively. Yet they'll take your money no matter else... Roll



So what, its not like you are getting podded all of the time in highsec and its rare in lowsec.

Just buy the implants, if you want in on production get a T3 or SOE boat and get to scanning, like everyone else. You'll likely have to leave hi sec, tough cookies.
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#143 - 2013-10-20 12:03:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Skeln Thargensen
tax rates are all relative.

are NPC corp taxes too low or are player corps too greedy?

forums.  serious business.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#144 - 2013-10-20 12:15:30 UTC
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
tax rates are all relative.

are NPC corp taxes too low or are player corps too greedy?


Player corps are, shockingly, up to the player. The point is that in highsec, there is little actual reason to join a player corp unless you love the concept of corp hangars.

So, the attractiveness of NPC corps needs to be toned down, and a tax hike is a good way to do that. Alongside this, player corps need to be made more attractive, with incentives to be in a player corp. NPC corps should be for NPCs.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Solstice Project's Alt
Doomheim
#145 - 2013-10-20 12:20:38 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:


EVE is a funny thing, but the fun is running out. No matter how hard they try, they're mindlocked in the "must be this tall" mentality. Latest case in point: the just announced exploration "Ghost sites" which may drop BPC to build player-made implants. Do we need to ask what are the chances of such a drop in hisec Ghost sites? "You must be this tall to play", effectively. Yet they'll take your money no matter else... Roll



If you actually believe this


You have not only handicapped your EvE experience DRASTICALLY



You may even be a detriment to those you seek to mentor
There are way too many people who have no clue of the game,
but believe they should teach others ...

Not specifically talking about Ish...


Anyhow ... i'm still waiting for somebody to realise the obvious solution to the whole "issue" ...

Buy Solstice Project for PLEX4GOOD ! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=301266 (this alt-character will get deleted once the sale is done, on 6th of december)
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#146 - 2013-10-20 12:22:43 UTC
Onictus wrote:



Hardly



Oh no. Why should you possibly explain yourself ? Can't substantiate huh ?

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#147 - 2013-10-20 12:25:26 UTC
Solstice Project's Alt wrote:

Anyhow ... i'm still waiting for somebody to realise the obvious solution to the whole "issue" ...



Like most "issues" in EvE


They are usually caused


By folk who insist on thinking within the box at all times


In a game when out-of-box thinking is a required skill


They need to push the envelope

Push it real good



Off the table

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#148 - 2013-10-20 12:25:44 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
tax rates are all relative.

are NPC corp taxes too low or are player corps too greedy?


Player corps are, shockingly, up to the player. The point is that in highsec, there is little actual reason to join a player corp unless you love the concept of corp hangars.

So, the attractiveness of NPC corps needs to be toned down, and a tax hike is a good way to do that. Alongside this, player corps need to be made more attractive, with incentives to be in a player corp. NPC corps should be for NPCs.


right so set your rates lower than NPC corps unless you have assets, doctrines, training programmes, FCs yadda yadda.

if all you have is a corp chat then >11% is a ripoff.

forums.  serious business.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#149 - 2013-10-20 12:25:56 UTC
Asuri Kinnes wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Their aproach with the Hallelujah Plan for the next three years is "be this tall and you will get New Space and a hug from CCP ~weloveyou~ Seagull", but that doesn't adresses the issue that they are running out of potential players. Ultima Online depleted its pool of customers in 5 years, EVE has taken 10, but all in all, there is only so much kids "this tall".

The problem with your analogy is that "new kids" are born every year, and grow every year - so while there may (or may not) be validity to your contention that CCP wants players to be "this tall", there is always going to be a new "crop" of players coming along.

Now, whether Star Citizen or some of the other Space MMO's are going to steal some recruits away from CCP - *that* remains to be seen.



Anyone predicting behaviors of video game players and the industry itself especially now, is either unaware of what's going on or is just pipe-dreaming.

It's an industry floundering in a sea of its own jeopardy for the moment.

The Industry is seemingly only wanting to turn a blind eye towards its own mistakes (betcha nobody had money 2 years ago on SimCity becoming a hated product).

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#150 - 2013-10-20 12:30:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Alongside this, player corps need to be made more attractive, with incentives to be in a player corp. NPC corps should be for NPCs.


That's up to the players, and nothing CCP can do about that. Neighborhoods for example are all pretty much alike by design. What happens to them depends upon the particular people that move in.

And EVE players have had over a DECADE to change the situation, with no effect. That is hardly CCP's issue to figure out. Social dynamics are what they are. Especially in a Sandbox.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#151 - 2013-10-20 12:33:50 UTC
Asuri Kinnes wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Their aproach with the Hallelujah Plan for the next three years is "be this tall and you will get New Space and a hug from CCP ~weloveyou~ Seagull", but that doesn't adresses the issue that they are running out of potential players. Ultima Online depleted its pool of customers in 5 years, EVE has taken 10, but all in all, there is only so much kids "this tall".

The problem with your analogy is that "new kids" are born every year, and grow every year - so while there may (or may not) be validity to your contention that CCP wants players to be "this tall", there is always going to be a new "crop" of players coming along.

Now, whether Star Citizen or some of the other Space MMO's are going to steal some recruits away from CCP - *that* remains to be seen.


Well, oil is also being created right now by nature; will be availabe in some ~40 million years. Lol

EVE has been scooping a pre-existing pool of players, and now that it relies in a more organic growth, it is falling behind. The average age for players of EVE was 34 a couple years ago.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#152 - 2013-10-20 12:34:50 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Alongside this, player corps need to be made more attractive, with incentives to be in a player corp. NPC corps should be for NPCs.


That's up to the players, and nothing CCP can do about that. Neighborhoods for example are all pretty much alike by design. What happens to them depends upon the particular people that move in.

And EVE players have had over a DECADE to change the situation, with no effect. That is hardly CCP's issue to figure out. Social dynamics are what they are. Especially in a Sandbox.


No, it's not. The players have nothing to do with the simple fact that a highsec corp is basically just a chat channel. They can't own anything, there is nothing to fight over, nothing to defend.

Highsec pocos are a start.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Silvetica Dian
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#153 - 2013-10-20 12:37:07 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
Silvetica Dian wrote:
Weiland Taur wrote:
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
Honestly, clearing up common misconceptions about corps / alliances / lowsec / nullsec would go much further in persuading people to participate than any mechanic changes. It would also be much more difficult than implementing any possible mechanic change.


While I agree that any mechanic change in Eve is fraught with the potential for fiery failure, I would be interested to know what misconceptions you are referring to.



That evil gate campers will kill u as soon as u enter low/null.
That to live in null you must sell your soul to a huge alliance and follow their every order.
That you can make more isk in lvl 4 missions.
That moving around in low/null is hard.
That you need 100 mill SP to even consider PVP

just a few off the top of my head



Wait what?

Your third point is only marginally true, but can also be construed as false based on your skillsets and ability.

Everything else is way off the mark. Not ever gate is camped, only some random/rare pipeline or defensive chokepoints get camped.

I don't have a soul to sell, and still have assets scattered all over null from stain to providence to syndicate to pure blind. NPC Null is perfectly fine and fun if you just want to pvp. You sell your soul if you want deep sov (and even then, "soul" is arguable).

Lvl4 missions net you more isk if you can speed through them. If you do not have the sp to skate through like a boss, battleship belt rats will get you more isk in the long run until you can just farm L4s.

I'm barely 25% of the way to 100mil sp, and have lived in null over half my eve life.

Seriously, you can get a lot of information from reading, you can get even more from talking to people.

For those who are unsure, provi has a NRDS policy (which I liked when I was there) and e-uni has some great policies in place too (as much as I want them to undock and be silly more often).


You'd be surprised how many people in this game are cool as hell, even the ones who would gank you. At the end of the day, we all want to just fly a space ship and shoot things.

dude i was making a list of misconceptions. ie things that are false. check my killboard. i send a fair amount of time in low and null and have done from a couple of months old.

Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85
Solstice Project's Alt
Doomheim
#154 - 2013-10-20 12:38:12 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Solstice Project's Alt wrote:

Anyhow ... i'm still waiting for somebody to realise the obvious solution to the whole "issue" ...

Like most "issues" in EvE
They are usually caused
By folk who insist on thinking within the box at all times
In a game when out-of-box thinking is a required skill
They need to push the envelope
Push it real good
Off the table
I don't understand the "push the envelope" metaphor and
subsequently have no idea what you're trying to say.

The only thing i see is that you believe that the players create the "issue",
which is pretty much correct, but not addressing it properly.

Buy Solstice Project for PLEX4GOOD ! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=301266 (this alt-character will get deleted once the sale is done, on 6th of december)
Solstice Project's Alt
Doomheim
#155 - 2013-10-20 12:39:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Solstice Project's Alt
Silvetica Dian wrote:
dude i was making a list of misconceptions. ie things that are false. check my killboard. i send a fair amount of time in low and null and have done from a couple of months old.
As usual, there are people who have a hard time sticking to/understanding context.

Buy Solstice Project for PLEX4GOOD ! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=301266 (this alt-character will get deleted once the sale is done, on 6th of december)
Amber Kurvora
#156 - 2013-10-20 12:50:52 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Alongside this, player corps need to be made more attractive, with incentives to be in a player corp. NPC corps should be for NPCs.


That's up to the players, and nothing CCP can do about that. Neighborhoods for example are all pretty much alike by design. What happens to them depends upon the particular people that move in.

And EVE players have had over a DECADE to change the situation, with no effect. That is hardly CCP's issue to figure out. Social dynamics are what they are. Especially in a Sandbox.


No, it's not. The players have nothing to do with the simple fact that a highsec corp is basically just a chat channel. They can't own anything, there is nothing to fight over, nothing to defend.

Highsec pocos are a start.



You're assuming there needs to be conflict in every corner of the galaxy. The reason three different play zones exist is so people can play exactly how they want to play. Want to mine your carebear heart away or play the markets? High Sec. Want to shiver your timbred and drink copious amounts of rum whilst waving your cutlass over your head? Low and Null are calling you. Want to fight in epic (for epic read blob), fighting over systems and resources? Null is where it's at.

It may be shocking, but maybe people don't always want to have to be watching their back. High sec has always been good to retreat to if you're suffering burn out from the rest of Eve.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#157 - 2013-10-20 12:52:17 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

No, it's not. The players have nothing to do with the simple fact that a highsec corp is basically just a chat channel. They can't own anything, there is nothing to fight over, nothing to defend.



Oh right. Nothing to defend at all like ships, POSes, and POCOS now while under War Dec. Got it. Roll

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#158 - 2013-10-20 12:53:18 UTC
Amber Kurvora wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Alongside this, player corps need to be made more attractive, with incentives to be in a player corp. NPC corps should be for NPCs.


That's up to the players, and nothing CCP can do about that. Neighborhoods for example are all pretty much alike by design. What happens to them depends upon the particular people that move in.

And EVE players have had over a DECADE to change the situation, with no effect. That is hardly CCP's issue to figure out. Social dynamics are what they are. Especially in a Sandbox.


No, it's not. The players have nothing to do with the simple fact that a highsec corp is basically just a chat channel. They can't own anything, there is nothing to fight over, nothing to defend.

Highsec pocos are a start.



You're assuming there needs to be conflict in every corner of the galaxy. The reason three different play zones exist is so people can play exactly how they want to play. Want to mine your carebear heart away or play the markets? High Sec. Want to shiver your timbred and drink copious amounts of rum whilst waving your cutlass over your head? Low and Null are calling you. Want to fight in epic (for epic read blob), fighting over systems and resources? Null is where it's at.

It may be shocking, but maybe people don't always want to have to be watching their back. High sec has always been good to retreat to if you're suffering burn out from the rest of Eve.


So, tell me why you think highsec should be immune? Or, deserves to be, might be the better question. All I can say about that is, no more Trammels.

Oh, and there are 4 different play zones, by the way.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#159 - 2013-10-20 12:54:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Ramona McCandless
Solstice Project's Alt wrote:
I don't understand the "push the envelope" metaphor and
subsequently have no idea what you're trying to say.

The only thing i see is that you believe that the players create the "issue",
which is pretty much correct, but not addressing it properly.



The embiggened text is what I am agreeing with

i.e. Your assertion that The "problem" is not actually a problem as it can easily be solved by folk engaging their brain before their mouth


The "envelope" metaphor finds its roots in ancient Egypt, where scribes

were not permitted to move from their seats until they had finished the writings they were working on


When a scribe was tired of writing something the normative way, he would fold the scroll into an envelope shape and "push the envelope" off the table

Then his task would be to retreive it from the floor, but without getting up from his seat

This became a way of saying "think of a new way to do something as there is always a new way"

And thats where we get the phrase "push the envelope" from


And in a way Jesus is like that


EvE! I mean EvE is like that





Sorry

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#160 - 2013-10-20 12:55:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaarous Aldurald
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

No, it's not. The players have nothing to do with the simple fact that a highsec corp is basically just a chat channel. They can't own anything, there is nothing to fight over, nothing to defend.



Oh right. Nothing to defend at all like ships, POSes, and POCOS now while under War Dec. Got it. Roll


Except for POS'es, you still keep your ships and stuff when you dec dodge. I should think that would be obvious. They don't have to defend their ships, hell, if they don't want to dec dodge they can simply not undock.

So no, they don't actually have anything to defend. No actual assets. Highsec pocos are a step in the right direction, to actually give people a reason to be in a highsec corp.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.