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EVE Online trending towards pay to win?

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Rath Kelbore
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#61 - 2013-10-19 16:53:41 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
You know this is a subscription based game, right?

Everybody pays. If you don't pay, you can't win.

Mr Epeen Cool

Well If I mine, I get minerals for free. I can trade those minerals for isk, and I can trade that isk for plex. Therefore, I don't pay, and I can win for free. P


0/10

I plan on living forever.......so far, so good.
Harry Forever
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#62 - 2013-10-19 18:30:43 UTC
Kharush Rova wrote:
I wanted to roll out this discussion to see what you guys think .

I recently looked at the bigger picture of EVE and was thinking about things like "PLEX", "Simultaneous Alt Training", etc. and I was wondering - is EVE trending towards a "pay to win" scenario?

It's not meant in a bad way - where I'm trying to say CCP is greedy with money or anything.

I know you have a choice to play the game completely for free if you choose to, but the more you invest, the greater the benefits it seems.

Do you guys feel the same or oppose this analogy?


it always was pay to win, the people who payed the sub the longest have the best skills, therefore have a huge advantage...

still I'm blasting them in my noob ship because they all suck so much :'D

Harry Forever vs. Goonswarm
Qolde
Scrambled Eggs Inc.
#63 - 2013-10-19 20:52:42 UTC
The first question that must be asked, is what is winning in Eve. Being a sandbox, the win is defined by one's own will. Of the many possible goals to choose from, virtually all goals can be bought, though the RL price may be extreme, and money alone can not purchase the aquisition of every possible goal. You'd have to know what to do with the isk to make it work.

If you consider having the most isk winning, you probably can't afford enough plexes. Of course you could buy a few, and learn how to trade. If you can afford it, I don't know if CCP would even sell that many at once.

If you consider having the most kills, well... i guess you could buy all your friends ships and go try to gank until you get good at it. Or you could multibox a 50 man pimp fit alpha fleet. Again, this would cost a prohibitively high amount, and you'd have to put in some actual work and time here as well.

If you consider owning space the win, see above, along with the special problem of trust and management. You could have all the isk in the world, but if your right hand man doesn't even like you, you're not going to win.

It's impossible to prevent alts, in this or any game. Someone can always rent personal proxy servers, and have multiple computers, accounts, and credit cards if they desire. There's no way to really stop that, you can only make the barrier to entry higher, making it more valuable.

All in all, you can't really pay to win anything but items themselves. If your goal is to own items, then yeah, you can have that. But you can't buy friends, which is what makes any worthwhile goal possible. But lots of money could make it happen faster, if you have the rest of the skill set to acquire your goals. Man-hours are more important to any of these goals.

If someone craps in your sandbox: 1. Light it on fire 2. Grab your shovel 3. Throw it back at them.
KnowUsByTheDead
Sunlight...Through The Blight.
#64 - 2013-10-19 21:07:27 UTC
I have already won at EVE.

It is a state secret though, and I can teach you in 15 minutes.

I can teach you this revolutionary way, but in EVE, time is isk.

Just saying. I am open to negotiations.

Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the comedian is the only thing that makes sense.
Ubat Batuk
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#65 - 2013-10-19 21:17:59 UTC
Kharush Rova wrote:
I wanted to roll out this discussion to see what you guys think .

I recently looked at the bigger picture of EVE and was thinking about things like "PLEX", "Simultaneous Alt Training", etc. and I was wondering - is EVE trending towards a "pay to win" scenario?

It's not meant in a bad way - where I'm trying to say CCP is greedy with money or anything.

I know you have a choice to play the game completely for free if you choose to, but the more you invest, the greater the benefits it seems.

Do you guys feel the same or oppose this analogy?


Are people mad nowadays? Get a new character and buy 100 Plexes. Now tell me what you can do with the isk.

... after you have realised that you can't do anything with it, please send the isk to me.
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#66 - 2013-10-19 21:28:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Captain Tardbar
Plex doesn't give you an automatic "press to win" button, but it sure does help.

A well educated and experienced player can just shell out real money and buy a character of his choice and then spend more money to buy ships of his choice and then fit it with the best mods possible. Hell, if he is rich enough he can bankroll his entire alliance too.

Of course if it wasn't an educated experienced player, they will most likley blow it all up.

But the point is that if they are smart, educated, and experienced you can do a lot more with your money than a poor player with the same experience and education.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server
Gargep Farrow
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#67 - 2013-10-20 02:14:44 UTC
Weiland Taur wrote:

I would imagine that the multi-character training is CCP's way of trying to get around an inability to sustain a high rate of new subscribers.

Is it an inability, or or is it a lack of desire to WoW the game down to make it more attractive to the instant gratification crowd?
Gargep Farrow
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#68 - 2013-10-20 02:19:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Gargep Farrow
Ubat Batuk wrote:
Kharush Rova wrote:
I wanted to roll out this discussion to see what you guys think .

I recently looked at the bigger picture of EVE and was thinking about things like "PLEX", "Simultaneous Alt Training", etc. and I was wondering - is EVE trending towards a "pay to win" scenario?

It's not meant in a bad way - where I'm trying to say CCP is greedy with money or anything.

I know you have a choice to play the game completely for free if you choose to, but the more you invest, the greater the benefits it seems.

Do you guys feel the same or oppose this analogy?


Are people mad nowadays? Get a new character and buy 100 Plexes. Now tell me what you can do with the isk.

... after you have realised that you can't do anything with it, please send the isk to me.

This made me laugh at old memories when I first started. Some guy random dropped 20 mil in my account and I thought I was rich. Its nowhere near the amount a PLEX can give, but it was still difficult to find things to spend it on that I could actually use and actually use well.
CCP Falcon
#69 - 2013-10-22 15:21:14 UTC
Locked on request of the OP.

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CCP Falcon || EVE Universe Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon

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