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Dev Blog: No Honor Among Thieves - Siphon Units in Rubicon

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Kropotkin
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1061 - 2013-10-19 18:20:20 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
... man i hate timers... all they lead to is blob fights... please ccp do every thing you can to get rid of timers

But how else to synchronize attacker and defender in real-world-time?

Perhaps you would like something like WormHole tonnage limits for entry into vicinity of POSs? Seems too easy to work around or exploit, though. (Thinking back to Rooks-and-Kings video "Clarion Call 3: The Black Fortress"...)
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#1062 - 2013-10-19 18:24:38 UTC
Kropotkin wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
... man i hate timers... all they lead to is blob fights... please ccp do every thing you can to get rid of timers

But how else to synchronize attacker and defender in real-world-time?

Don't.

Just endless players killing structures and players dropping more structures, like siphons.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Kropotkin
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1063 - 2013-10-19 18:27:54 UTC
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
This will be mind numbingly boring and a time sink with little actual payoff for the pilots participating. The money doesn't matter all that much, but endless, pointless repetition doesn't generally sit well with most players outside of high sec.

I think you underestimate just how much goons enjoy doing things purely for the sake of making someone else miserable.

The purpose of organization is to make the strengths of the individual members productive, and their weaknesses irrelevant. -- Peter Drucker, The Effective Executive

One genius of Goon-Leaders is to make individual's sociopathic behavior productive for organization-as-whole.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#1064 - 2013-10-19 18:30:29 UTC
Kropotkin wrote:
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
This will be mind numbingly boring and a time sink with little actual payoff for the pilots participating. The money doesn't matter all that much, but endless, pointless repetition doesn't generally sit well with most players outside of high sec.

I think you underestimate just how much goons enjoy doing things purely for the sake of making someone else miserable.

The purpose of organization is to make the strengths of the individual members productive, and their weaknesses irrelevant. -- Peter Drucker, The Effective Executive

One genius of Goon-Leaders is to make individual's sociopathic behavior productive for organization-as-whole.

Torp bombering structures in fountain and delve for multiple weeks.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Kropotkin
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1065 - 2013-10-19 18:42:18 UTC
Dersen Lowery wrote:
... I wonder if it would be worth having these things pop and drop a jetcan when they're full, so that you have two hours to pick up the loot before it goes bye-bye. That would create an implicit timer--either the ninja siphoner comes to empty the siphon out before it's full so that it doesn't pop, or they have two hours after it fills up to collect their loot before it vanishes--assuming that someone else hasn't helped themselves to it, of course.

Someone dropping them as an income-denying tactic wouldn't care either way, of course. But they would still have to either tend them or come back to drop new ones every so often if they wanted to keep the income denial up.

Another possibility near this suggestion in Game-design-space: give siphon finite lifetime renewable by repairing-up.

Reping-up ship must stay relatively nearby for fairly long time, giving siphoned-from player(s) some time to detect and attack?

And reping ship must sacrifice warload for reping capability.

Perhaps POS module can be installed to warn of nearby reping?

I suppose it would be TOS violation for POS-keeper to have cloaked alt at station, with player AFK but running screen-scraping software that feeds video-analysis automation that detects intrusions and batphones defense force?
Ganthrithor
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1066 - 2013-10-19 18:45:34 UTC
Zakhin Desver wrote:
Varius Xeral wrote:
I will summarize this entire thread with a slightly hyperbolic metaphor:

CCP: We will create a New Utopia by employing arm-banded thugs to control everyone for their own good.
The Unwashed Eve Masses: Ooooh, a New Utopia. That sounds great.
A Few of Us: What was that arm-banded thugs part again?

Forest, trees, etc.


Aren't we already controlled by arm-banded thugs? Specially in nullsec


What, do you rent from Evoke?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#1067 - 2013-10-19 18:50:40 UTC
Ganthrithor wrote:
Zakhin Desver wrote:
Varius Xeral wrote:
I will summarize this entire thread with a slightly hyperbolic metaphor:

CCP: We will create a New Utopia by employing arm-banded thugs to control everyone for their own good.
The Unwashed Eve Masses: Ooooh, a New Utopia. That sounds great.
A Few of Us: What was that arm-banded thugs part again?

Forest, trees, etc.

Aren't we already controlled by arm-banded thugs? Specially in nullsec

What, do you rent from Evoke?

I thought they died?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#1068 - 2013-10-19 18:51:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Dersen Lowery wrote:
... I wonder if it would be worth having these things pop and drop a jetcan when they're full, so that you have two hours to pick up the loot before it goes bye-bye. That would create an implicit timer--either the ninja siphoner comes to empty the siphon out before it's full so that it doesn't pop, or they have two hours after it fills up to collect their loot before it vanishes--assuming that someone else hasn't helped themselves to it, of course.

Someone dropping them as an income-denying tactic wouldn't care either way, of course. But they would still have to either tend them or come back to drop new ones every so often if they wanted to keep the income denial up.

Nope, it's better. Instead of stopping when full they keep on pulling more.

I support this.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#1069 - 2013-10-19 18:52:10 UTC
CCP,

You'll need to re-evaluate the role that this module plays, along with its functions. As it is now, it will be more of a grief play tool than anything else. I'm not discrediting the module itself, just the way it's been implemented. I can easily see these things being spammed everywhere simply because "I can" and "for the lulz", with minimal repercussions.

Anyone who thinks this will affect larger alliances more than small corps is, IMO, wrong. Even small corps operating in lo sec will feel a greater burden, because they have less of a fallback cushion during a POS shutdown.

There simply needs to be more repercussion or risk to spamming these things about.

Successfully doinitwrong™ since 2006.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#1070 - 2013-10-19 19:02:50 UTC
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:
CCP,

You'll need to re-evaluate the role that this module plays, along with its functions. As it is now, it will be more of a grief play tool than anything else. I'm not discrediting the module itself, just the way it's been implemented. I can easily see these things being spammed everywhere simply because "I can" and "for the lulz", with minimal repercussions.

Anyone who thinks this will affect larger alliances more than small corps is, IMO, wrong. Even small corps operating in lo sec will feel a greater burden, because they have less of a fallback cushion during a POS shutdown.

There simply needs to be more repercussion or risk to spamming these things about.

goon alt

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Jimmy Farrere
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1071 - 2013-10-19 19:08:17 UTC
Huh, I already solved all this 2 pages ago.

Make the units bigger.

Next question please.
Kropotkin
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1072 - 2013-10-19 19:16:37 UTC
Johnny Marzetti wrote:
You know what? This is going to be awesome.

Or will it be ...
Quote:
Something Awful
??Twisted
Johnny Marzetti
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#1073 - 2013-10-19 19:17:54 UTC
Gypsio III wrote:
10 mill is too expensive for these siphons. The ones planted at valuable moons will just get blown up, while the ones planted at worthless moons won't run a profit, because it'll never be worth a pilot's time taking what they siphon.

They need to be cheaper to see significant use.


I'm fairly spacepoor for a goon and even I am planning on dropping at least half a billion on these if they are released as currently proposed just to screw with random pubbie shitlords, and I absolutely do not care if I ever get a drop of moon goo from them. In fact, I'm hoping some opportunistic scrubs will empty them for me. Maybe I'll give the locations to some randomly selected new players in starter systems just to get them going into low/null early on. So yes, make these cheaper.
Zakhin Desver
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1074 - 2013-10-19 19:29:01 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
Zakhin Desver wrote:
Well, in fact, banning them from lowsec will make lowsec the training ground for pos owners. If you are in nullsec, you should be able to help yourself.


right and all those high value moons in low sec should then go to null right?


it seems fair in exchange of not having syphons. Just low to medium value moons in lowsec. If you wan't more profits, either you join a big alliance in null or steal from them
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#1075 - 2013-10-19 19:42:11 UTC
Johnny Marzetti wrote:
Gypsio III wrote:
10 mill is too expensive for these siphons. The ones planted at valuable moons will just get blown up, while the ones planted at worthless moons won't run a profit, because it'll never be worth a pilot's time taking what they siphon.

They need to be cheaper to see significant use.


I'm fairly spacepoor for a goon and even I am planning on dropping at least half a billion on these if they are released as currently proposed just to screw with random pubbie shitlords, and I absolutely do not care if I ever get a drop of moon goo from them. In fact, I'm hoping some opportunistic scrubs will empty them for me. Maybe I'll give the locations to some randomly selected new players in starter systems just to get them going into low/null early on. So yes, make these cheaper.

But as a goon you are the 1%

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Johnny Marzetti
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#1076 - 2013-10-19 19:53:01 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Johnny Marzetti wrote:
Gypsio III wrote:
10 mill is too expensive for these siphons. The ones planted at valuable moons will just get blown up, while the ones planted at worthless moons won't run a profit, because it'll never be worth a pilot's time taking what they siphon.

They need to be cheaper to see significant use.


I'm fairly spacepoor for a goon and even I am planning on dropping at least half a billion on these if they are released as currently proposed just to screw with random pubbie shitlords, and I absolutely do not care if I ever get a drop of moon goo from them. In fact, I'm hoping some opportunistic scrubs will empty them for me. Maybe I'll give the locations to some randomly selected new players in starter systems just to get them going into low/null early on. So yes, make these cheaper.

But as a goon you are the 1%


As a goon, I'm supposed to be crying about these things, according to the posters here, but I really am starting to get excited about setting up a lowsec moon goo scavenger hunt for random new players.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#1077 - 2013-10-19 20:02:40 UTC
Johnny Marzetti wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Johnny Marzetti wrote:
Gypsio III wrote:
10 mill is too expensive for these siphons. The ones planted at valuable moons will just get blown up, while the ones planted at worthless moons won't run a profit, because it'll never be worth a pilot's time taking what they siphon.

They need to be cheaper to see significant use.


I'm fairly spacepoor for a goon and even I am planning on dropping at least half a billion on these if they are released as currently proposed just to screw with random pubbie shitlords, and I absolutely do not care if I ever get a drop of moon goo from them. In fact, I'm hoping some opportunistic scrubs will empty them for me. Maybe I'll give the locations to some randomly selected new players in starter systems just to get them going into low/null early on. So yes, make these cheaper.

But as a goon you are the 1%


As a goon, I'm supposed to be crying about these things, according to the posters here, but I really am starting to get excited about setting up a lowsec moon goo scavenger hunt for random new players.

these are your tears, right there

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Kropotkin
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1078 - 2013-10-19 20:06:27 UTC
Tippia wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Change is good.
Not really, no.
Good change is good. Bad changes, such as making the data export not export data, on the other hand is not good.

Quote:
Change is not Reform!
-- John Randolph of Roanoke, to the Virginia Convention of 1829
Zakhin Desver
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1079 - 2013-10-19 20:19:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Zakhin Desver
The problem is, aside from CCP, who is here in possesion of the universal truth to say what changes are good or bad? Everyody here have material interests in this changes (or the absence of changes)

Having a conflict like this between players pro and anti-change should be resolved by dropping the expansion like that and see what happens.

PS (Patch notes: Because f.....k y....u)
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#1080 - 2013-10-19 20:29:16 UTC
Johnny Marzetti wrote:
Gypsio III wrote:
10 mill is too expensive for these siphons. The ones planted at valuable moons will just get blown up, while the ones planted at worthless moons won't run a profit, because it'll never be worth a pilot's time taking what they siphon.

They need to be cheaper to see significant use.


I'm fairly spacepoor for a goon and even I am planning on dropping at least half a billion on these if they are released as currently proposed just to screw with random pubbie shitlords, and I absolutely do not care if I ever get a drop of moon goo from them. In fact, I'm hoping some opportunistic scrubs will empty them for me. Maybe I'll give the locations to some randomly selected new players in starter systems just to get them going into low/null early on. So yes, make these cheaper.


If you drop two per POS, and visit a POS every minute, this will take you about 173,000 years. not including DT, of course. I applaud your commitment!

Giving the locations to newbies is a good idea though.