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Turelus
Utassi Security
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#81 - 2013-10-19 14:52:58 UTC
Firstly thank you for being active and addressing the issues or questions outline CCP WhiteNoiseTrash. As someone has always played EVE with sound and does enjoy having it on it's nice to be able to have a back and forth specifically about sound in EVE. You should pester the people in charge of fanfest about having a round table next year, so players can talk with you face to face and give you free alcohol in way of bribes.Blink

So going back to my former problems with sound I will try and be as constructive as I can and maybe get some video footage at a later date as an expample.

The music tracks changing when jumping stargates has been fixed, I am not sure when that change happened due to being in NullSec a lot recently but I will refrain from complain about it any more.

Non-Capsuleer Log-Off Timer (or any timer) reset sounds can still be rather irritating when running PVE content with others. If you're not currently being attacked by an NPC and you fire on it you will start you timer and get the beep/screech sound. This becomes a problem in sites when using a ship which can kill smaller targets fast, most battleships with turrets can kill a frigate with a single gun at long range, when running sites with 10+ frigates you will be hearing the sound in rapid succession. A good way to repeat this is to turn auto repeat on weapons off and fire all your weapons ungrouped at a Large Collidable Object, recycling weapons each cycle. You end up hearing the sound with every shot.

Currently on TQ if you hover over an anomaly or signature in space while the scanner sweep is going you get a static sound moving towards a more audible hum. I had heard there was a way to discern signatures via sounds that what this is?
Although my question is more on if the static is correct as it sounds a little horrible.

NullSec steel feels very bland in the way of music and I often turn it off whilst there because it's not really music. I understand (and like) the idea of making the space feel more dangerous and mysterious but could that be done with actual music tracks mixed in with the ambient style music, have the new tracks slower and more deadly sounding than the more upbeat ones of Empire. I would also say that NullSec and WSpace are the areas which hold a more exploration feel if that can help inspire ideas for additional music.

Would it also be possible to have the new "woop woop" siren when your shields are below x% to be separately disabled from the initial warning alert. I regally switch between armour and shield tanked ships so I don't want to disable the shield warning while armour tanking. Originally it wasn't an issues as I would hear the initial warning and then not hear it again (as shields wouldn't recover to x%) however now any time shield fall below that value there is a new sound which repeats (while a red flash pulses on your HP UI) which forces me to disable all shield warnings as to not hear it.
The problem then is if I forget to turn it on again when I am in a shield

Turelus CEO Utassi Security
CCP WhiteNoiseTrash
C C P
C C P Alliance
#82 - 2013-10-19 20:11:11 UTC
Turelus wrote:
Firstly thank you for being active and addressing the issues or questions outline CCP WhiteNoiseTrash. As someone has always played EVE with sound and does enjoy having it on it's nice to be able to have a back and forth specifically about sound in EVE. You should pester the people in charge of fanfest about having a round table next year, so players can talk with you face to face and give you free alcohol in way of bribes.Blink

So going back to my former problems with sound I will try and be as constructive as I can and maybe get some video footage at a later date as an expample.

The music tracks changing when jumping stargates has been fixed, I am not sure when that change happened due to being in NullSec a lot recently but I will refrain from complain about it any more.

Non-Capsuleer Log-Off Timer (or any timer) reset sounds can still be rather irritating when running PVE content with others. If you're not currently being attacked by an NPC and you fire on it you will start you timer and get the beep/screech sound. This becomes a problem in sites when using a ship which can kill smaller targets fast, most battleships with turrets can kill a frigate with a single gun at long range, when running sites with 10+ frigates you will be hearing the sound in rapid succession. A good way to repeat this is to turn auto repeat on weapons off and fire all your weapons ungrouped at a Large Collidable Object, recycling weapons each cycle. You end up hearing the sound with every shot.

Currently on TQ if you hover over an anomaly or signature in space while the scanner sweep is going you get a static sound moving towards a more audible hum. I had heard there was a way to discern signatures via sounds that what this is?
Although my question is more on if the static is correct as it sounds a little horrible.

NullSec steel feels very bland in the way of music and I often turn it off whilst there because it's not really music. I understand (and like) the idea of making the space feel more dangerous and mysterious but could that be done with actual music tracks mixed in with the ambient style music, have the new tracks slower and more deadly sounding than the more upbeat ones of Empire. I would also say that NullSec and WSpace are the areas which hold a more exploration feel if that can help inspire ideas for additional music.

Would it also be possible to have the new "woop woop" siren when your shields are below x% to be separately disabled from the initial warning alert. I regally switch between armour and shield tanked ships so I don't want to disable the shield warning while armour tanking. Originally it wasn't an issues as I would hear the initial warning and then not hear it again (as shields wouldn't recover to x%) however now any time shield fall below that value there is a new sound which repeats (while a red flash pulses on your HP UI) which forces me to disable all shield warnings as to not hear it.
The problem then is if I forget to turn it on again when I am in a shield


we do actually have a roundtable, well at least last year, which was my first FF.
We will, without a doubt have one next year as well. It was quite constructive and a good experience in 2013.

If you could video the stuff you specifically mention, especially the log off timer resetting constantly or similar, please do. because I seem to be only capable of reproducing the sound to work as intended, so I bet I am doing something wrong because my mind is a bit colored from the dev environment here.

You heard correctly with the signatures and especially the anomalies. you can hover them and all you get is static, but if the signature is fulled scanned or it's an anomaly you will hear a "pattern signal" - kind of like an old school sci-fi distress signal. which is which, you will have to figure out yourself, but they indicate the level of the anomaly.
this doesn't mean that it tells you where to go or not, but an indicator of the "danger" level as to what kind of challenge you are looking for.
is it the "noise" or the pattern, that you think is horrible?

new music is on the way, when it will be implemented I can't say for sure.
right now I am after hours working on some new dungeon music, but I am not officially the composer of EVE and my time is mostly spent on implementing and creating assets, so we don't know if it will go in for Rubicon yet. But it's not just for dungeons, we are going through it all to make new music for every type of sec.

as for the warnings, the system with the flashing, was to have been substantially greater and the audible warnings both louder and much more aggressive. this was changed (which I'm happy for, because it would ruin the audio IMHO)
I am working on a system which will allow you to, not customize the specific sounds, adjust the specific warnings - so that you (in utopia) would be able to choose specifically which warning you want to hear - which UI sound you want active or inactive.
There is a way (I don't have the client open right now so I don't remember the exact button) down in the right of the screen, to adjust the threshold of when you want the warnings to sound, have you tried that?

Finally, I am trying to make EVE more multibox friendly, this may take a while to have the coders do, but allowing the audio system to see if the current window is active or passive, as in you have four windows open and three are passive and you are navigating one of them, then this window only plays music and full level sounds, in the other windows, combined with what I just said about the adjustable UI sounds- the sounds would be lowered, music totally dampened and specific sounds not so important for the passive player dampened, apart from the specific sounds chosen to be played in passive mode.
in that way you would be able to have several clients open and not have a proportional amount of sounds duplicate.

Bjørn Jacobsen | Deceased Audio Designer | EVE Online & EVE : Valkyrie | CCP Games | I might be slow at replying - but at least I'm bad at football.
CCP WhiteNoiseTrash
C C P
C C P Alliance
#83 - 2013-10-19 20:12:01 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Well, I never figured that the old joke about ingame sounds ("Huh? EVE has sound?") could be replayed in RL: "Huh? We do have sound guys?". Lol

Came here willing to ramble about a jukebox function but will not insist. Just will ask, has someone noticed that music may stop playing at random since Odyssey 1.1? i'm still trying to pick wether it's a speciifc sound track that won't play, or a complete failure to play music. The "volume to zero" trick only works sometimes, and earlier today I had to do it three times before music actually started -but then could be two missing files in a row.


I don't know. I'll try to file it as a bug, but it may be a bit hard to reproduce - but it for sure should play all the time of course.
I'll go over this with the coder on monday.
:)

Bjørn Jacobsen | Deceased Audio Designer | EVE Online & EVE : Valkyrie | CCP Games | I might be slow at replying - but at least I'm bad at football.
CCP WhiteNoiseTrash
C C P
C C P Alliance
#84 - 2013-10-19 20:15:21 UTC
and if you are coming to FF 2014 - don't be a stranger :)
These is plenty to gain from discussing these things, some things of course, cannot be done to please everybody, but by talking about what people would like and not like and so on, I get a much better perspective and creative viewpoint of how sound in EVE should be.

Auras voice, of "clumsy pilot", laughing and cargohold full, I don't know where they went.
But I'll talk to the coder about it. ccp RealX
I know that some voices were removed, but I don't know why right away - but there was a reason (probably just an aesthetic one)

(for some reason, I always spell aesthetic wrong - and end up with anesthesia ???)

Bjørn Jacobsen | Deceased Audio Designer | EVE Online & EVE : Valkyrie | CCP Games | I might be slow at replying - but at least I'm bad at football.
TheSmokingHertog
Julia's Interstellar Trade Emperium
#85 - 2013-10-21 02:13:35 UTC  |  Edited by: TheSmokingHertog
CCP WhiteNoiseTrash wrote:
Solstice Project's Alt wrote:
CCP Sisyphus wrote:
We'd like you to keep all audio feedback in this thread - makes it easier to keep track of :)

We'll be putting a list of features here, but are mainly concerned with sound behavior as we've been doing a lot of behind the scenes changes to the audio engine.

- Team Klang
I am experiencing loud background noise within a caldari station,
which can only be tuned down by lowering the UI Sound slider,
although it should be actually world sound, by the ... sound ... of it.

It sounds like it should be there, but it's too much.


Edit: It's even there after undocking, disabling sound removes it though.

The electric buzz at gates is freaking me out ...


Caldari stations you say.
Let me check it out - we moved some stuff around to save memory load and this could be one of the bugs related to it.


I just stumbled into your comment from the Weekly overview thread, and I have reported this elsewhere on forums too, but I dont have it just in station, I have it even outside stations and @ warp with ... the special ammo bay ship, whats it name again... The Hoarder

"Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X

"Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron

-= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-
Panhead4411
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services
The Possum Lodge
#86 - 2013-10-24 12:13:40 UTC
CCP WhiteNoiseTrash wrote:
but if the signature is fulled scanned or it's an anomaly you will hear a "pattern signal" - kind of like an old school sci-fi distress signal. which is which, you will have to figure out yourself, but they indicate the level of the anomaly.
this doesn't mean that it tells you where to go or not, but an indicator of the "danger" level as to what kind of challenge you are looking for.

Correct me if i'm wrong...but won't you already have a very good idea as to what 'level' and 'how difficult' a site is after you have it scanned to 100%....seeing as it will give you the name (plus knowing how hard/easy each one was to scan as YOU scanned them). This new sound just seems kinda pointless. imho. Unless you plan on scrambling the names to no longer match any of the pve databases out there that scanners use as reference.

http://blog.beyondreality.se/shift-click-does-nothing    < Unified Inventory is NOT ready...
Pertuabo Enkidgan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#87 - 2013-10-25 02:07:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Pertuabo Enkidgan
CCP WhiteNoiseTrash wrote:

Auras voice, of "clumsy pilot", laughing and cargohold full, I don't know where they went.
But I'll talk to the coder about it. ccp RealX
I know that some voices were removed, but I don't know why right away - but there was a reason (probably just an aesthetic one)

Alright

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3718402#post3718402
Shamelessly linking to another thread in hoping that you'll answer some of my other questions Big smile(I could be wrong on some of them though)
CCP WhiteNoiseTrash
C C P
C C P Alliance
#88 - 2013-10-25 09:44:58 UTC
Panhead4411 wrote:
CCP WhiteNoiseTrash wrote:
but if the signature is fulled scanned or it's an anomaly you will hear a "pattern signal" - kind of like an old school sci-fi distress signal. which is which, you will have to figure out yourself, but they indicate the level of the anomaly.
this doesn't mean that it tells you where to go or not, but an indicator of the "danger" level as to what kind of challenge you are looking for.

Correct me if i'm wrong...but won't you already have a very good idea as to what 'level' and 'how difficult' a site is after you have it scanned to 100%....seeing as it will give you the name (plus knowing how hard/easy each one was to scan as YOU scanned them). This new sound just seems kinda pointless. imho. Unless you plan on scrambling the names to no longer match any of the pve databases out there that scanners use as reference.


Well, if you look at it like that - then yes, sound is completely useless.
but we may as well just remove all the graphics as well, because the game would actually be easier to just play out of a giant overview in an excel sheet form.

Personally, I don't reference check with databases, but I don't use this sound for signatures though. I just listen to anomalies to get a clue on whether this is too hardcore for me or not.

Sound is not to just be used as a luxury which is just there.
Sound is also a game design tool, which could help you out - if you want to check with databases, be my guest - and then to you, it's a useless feature.

One thing that we are putting in soon, is that you will be able to approach a wormhole and not only hear if it's unstable (which you can now), but will have to check the info of that wormhole to see if it's on the verge of collapse, if it leads to hisec. dangerous or very dangerous. Unknown or known, whatever.
What if you could listen to the wormhole and wouldn't have to check the info to know if you wanted to go through, close it or whatever you wanted, wouldn't that be nice?
It's a useless feature for sure, like basically anything else, but still nice.

Because you can actually, just by looking at the wormhole it self, tell by the graphics where it leads, if you know your skybox graphics.
You could of course just check your wormhole references database, for what type it leads to or how much mass it allows.
One of my personal goals is that basically any kind of parameter in EVE is hooked up to the sound engine, it may be subtle differences and stuff you basically won't hear, but if we are to get out of the EVE HAS SOUND meme, then audio features are needed instead of just revamping or new sounds.

Sounds are to be used as a tool in the game and not just as a luxury.

Bjørn Jacobsen | Deceased Audio Designer | EVE Online & EVE : Valkyrie | CCP Games | I might be slow at replying - but at least I'm bad at football.
Sable Moran
Moran Light Industries
#89 - 2013-10-25 11:45:34 UTC
CCP WhiteNoiseTrash wrote:
allowing the audio system to see if the current window is active or passive...

...then this window only plays music and full level sounds, in the other windows .... the sounds would be lowered, music totally dampened and specific sounds not so important for the passive player dampened, apart from the specific sounds chosen to be played in passive mode.

in that way you would be able to have several clients open and not have a proportional amount of sounds duplicate.


If you can make this happen I can pretty much guarantee you will have no problems having your mug filled with your favorite beverage at many fan fests to come.

Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene V - Moon 4 - Duvolle Labs Factory. Hybrid charges, Projectile ammo, Missiles, Drones, Ships, Need'em? We have'em, at affordable prices. Pop in at our Ammo Shop in sunny Alentene.
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#90 - 2013-10-25 15:32:20 UTC
just wanted to say thanks for the MWD sound. I can easily tell if something activates a MWD on grid with me when i solo, without even looking at the overview. That being said, it would be cool to have a more distinctive AB sound. Currently it sounds like the normal engine sound just slightly louder.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
CCP WhiteNoiseTrash
C C P
C C P Alliance
#91 - 2013-10-25 20:20:44 UTC
Bienator II wrote:
just wanted to say thanks for the MWD sound. I can easily tell if something activates a MWD on grid with me when i solo, without even looking at the overview. That being said, it would be cool to have a more distinctive AB sound. Currently it sounds like the normal engine sound just slightly louder.


Yea, I'm working on something similar.
It's really important to have as many features to make overview and other things unnecessary, and I will continue to work on this - so that playing the game will actually be possible, without basically becoming a text based adventure game and a constant lookout at the overview.

Bjørn Jacobsen | Deceased Audio Designer | EVE Online & EVE : Valkyrie | CCP Games | I might be slow at replying - but at least I'm bad at football.
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#92 - 2013-10-25 20:44:58 UTC
CCP WhiteNoiseTrash wrote:
Bienator II wrote:
just wanted to say thanks for the MWD sound. I can easily tell if something activates a MWD on grid with me when i solo, without even looking at the overview. That being said, it would be cool to have a more distinctive AB sound. Currently it sounds like the normal engine sound just slightly louder.


Yea, I'm working on something similar.
It's really important to have as many features to make overview and other things unnecessary, and I will continue to work on this - so that playing the game will actually be possible, without basically becoming a text based adventure game and a constant lookout at the overview.


not sure if your engine can do this. but have you experimented with doppler effect? so that you could tell if something MWDs towards or away from you. This should make flybys sound also quite cool.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
CCP WhiteNoiseTrash
C C P
C C P Alliance
#93 - 2013-10-26 07:57:46 UTC
Bienator II wrote:
CCP WhiteNoiseTrash wrote:
Bienator II wrote:
just wanted to say thanks for the MWD sound. I can easily tell if something activates a MWD on grid with me when i solo, without even looking at the overview. That being said, it would be cool to have a more distinctive AB sound. Currently it sounds like the normal engine sound just slightly louder.


Yea, I'm working on something similar.
It's really important to have as many features to make overview and other things unnecessary, and I will continue to work on this - so that playing the game will actually be possible, without basically becoming a text based adventure game and a constant lookout at the overview.


not sure if your engine can do this. but have you experimented with doppler effect? so that you could tell if something MWDs towards or away from you. This should make flybys sound also quite cool.


it would be possible, it requires some numbers from the physics engine to feed the audio engine, certainly possible, but not sure if it would work unless zoomed all the say in
.
well, i think it would only work with a very specific camera setting.

Bjørn Jacobsen | Deceased Audio Designer | EVE Online & EVE : Valkyrie | CCP Games | I might be slow at replying - but at least I'm bad at football.
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#94 - 2013-10-26 18:01:38 UTC
imo, both mwd sounds and ab sounds are too discreet.

Why not making a sound perhaps shorter but louder ?
For instance, something like that : http://youtu.be/hX0p0irEOls?t=1m14s

I'm sure that you will recognize it :D

Signature Tanking Best Tanking

[Ex-F] CEO - Eve-guides.fr

Ultimate Citadel Guide - 2016 EVE Career Chart
Hawk Jarlson
Black-eyed Bruiser
#95 - 2013-10-27 11:21:34 UTC
Any plans on re-installing the Jukebox? I like my music and used the Jukebox all the time.
Oberine Noriepa
#96 - 2013-10-27 13:04:44 UTC
Hawk Jarlson wrote:
Any plans on re-installing the Jukebox? I like my music and used the Jukebox all the time.

This isn't going to happen. People should stop asking about it.

∃
CCP WhiteNoiseTrash
C C P
C C P Alliance
#97 - 2013-10-27 18:53:31 UTC
Oberine Noriepa wrote:
Hawk Jarlson wrote:
Any plans on re-installing the Jukebox? I like my music and used the Jukebox all the time.

This isn't going to happen. People should stop asking about it.


Well, not everybody could have read all the threads and stuff about it. So it's ok to ask. but yes, there have been numerous threads and posts about this.

Sorry, but the jukebox is out, there was a survey about it - just to make sure that the decision to remove it was the right one, by my boss.

It was removed to be able to control which music plays when you are in which system - like an adaptive system.
The only thing we can say is that you can play the EVE music from our soundcloud page or you can use a 3rd party player, like winamp, VLC or whatever you prefer to playback your music.

Bjørn Jacobsen | Deceased Audio Designer | EVE Online & EVE : Valkyrie | CCP Games | I might be slow at replying - but at least I'm bad at football.
CCP WhiteNoiseTrash
C C P
C C P Alliance
#98 - 2013-10-27 18:57:19 UTC
Altrue wrote:
imo, both mwd sounds and ab sounds are too discreet.

Why not making a sound perhaps shorter but louder ?
For instance, something like that : http://youtu.be/hX0p0irEOls?t=1m14s

I'm sure that you will recognize it :D


One of the problems with this and making it louder, is that in case there are many people in the same "scene" and we have a lot of players doing the same thing or basically doing anything, then we have a problem controlling this.
So making something louder, doesn't always solve things- in the specific case of you being alone and wanting the sound louder because it gives you a proper warning or heads up - sure it would do the trick.

but changing something like this, needs to work in many different types of scenarios and would require quite a bit of testing and tweaking of the system.

Bjørn Jacobsen | Deceased Audio Designer | EVE Online & EVE : Valkyrie | CCP Games | I might be slow at replying - but at least I'm bad at football.
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#99 - 2013-10-27 21:46:49 UTC
CCP WhiteNoiseTrash wrote:
Altrue wrote:
imo, both mwd sounds and ab sounds are too discreet.

Why not making a sound perhaps shorter but louder ?
For instance, something like that : http://youtu.be/hX0p0irEOls?t=1m14s

I'm sure that you will recognize it :D


One of the problems with this and making it louder, is that in case there are many people in the same "scene" and we have a lot of players doing the same thing or basically doing anything, then we have a problem controlling this.
So making something louder, doesn't always solve things- in the specific case of you being alone and wanting the sound louder because it gives you a proper warning or heads up - sure it would do the trick.

but changing something like this, needs to work in many different types of scenarios and would require quite a bit of testing and tweaking of the system.


I understand. Although the case of having a sound stacking a huge number of times in a short period already exists when a titan bridges a fleet. And overall, it seems like a manageable sound. A couple of people smartbombing also produce a loud mess.

So, given that some examples already exists in game, is there still any hope ? :D Because obviously you did it before ! And I'm pretty sure that a fleet of people afterburning would still sound cool ! *Bam bam bam bam bam !*

Signature Tanking Best Tanking

[Ex-F] CEO - Eve-guides.fr

Ultimate Citadel Guide - 2016 EVE Career Chart
CCP WhiteNoiseTrash
C C P
C C P Alliance
#100 - 2013-10-27 22:16:17 UTC
Altrue wrote:
CCP WhiteNoiseTrash wrote:
Altrue wrote:
imo, both mwd sounds and ab sounds are too discreet.

Why not making a sound perhaps shorter but louder ?
For instance, something like that : http://youtu.be/hX0p0irEOls?t=1m14s

I'm sure that you will recognize it :D


One of the problems with this and making it louder, is that in case there are many people in the same "scene" and we have a lot of players doing the same thing or basically doing anything, then we have a problem controlling this.
So making something louder, doesn't always solve things- in the specific case of you being alone and wanting the sound louder because it gives you a proper warning or heads up - sure it would do the trick.

but changing something like this, needs to work in many different types of scenarios and would require quite a bit of testing and tweaking of the system.


I understand. Although the case of having a sound stacking a huge number of times in a short period already exists when a titan bridges a fleet. And overall, it seems like a manageable sound. A couple of people smartbombing also produce a loud mess.

So, given that some examples already exists in game, is there still any hope ? :D Because obviously you did it before ! And I'm pretty sure that a fleet of people afterburning would still sound cool ! *Bam bam bam bam bam !*


There is plenty of hope.
Situations like this, for me to fix them, it is very useful if you have in-game footage which you can send me and point out exactly which sound you are referring to and what the situation is.
because it can be quite hard to figure out exactly how to handle it or how to improve on something, if I think in a different direction than the one given.

So if you have anything. let me see it.
drop me a mail with the links and I'll go over it.

MWD is one thing though, it's different when we are talking about guns, specific camera angles, directions and many players at once.

actually had a fun discussion with a dev from another company, I mentioned this at fanfest 2013 as well.
we were discussing problems of open world audio and problems with mmo audio as well and he said "yea, we have a serious problem when we get 20 vs. 20 player battles"
With EVE we are just dealing with problems totally out of proportion and scale when it comes to comparing it to any other game, so problem solving can be quite tricky sometimes.

Bjørn Jacobsen | Deceased Audio Designer | EVE Online & EVE : Valkyrie | CCP Games | I might be slow at replying - but at least I'm bad at football.