Player Features and Ideas Discussion

How 'bout a longer warp time in most HS systems (and therefore more of a time commitment to haul)? Since, you know, that's already happening without any increase in reward.

@Sipphakta
Your proposal about the changes to freighter stats is a nerf though. What they should do is as you've pointed out, but reduce only the cargohold. Maxed out cargohold expanders in low bring it back up to current levels, or you may sacrifice that space for extra EHP, agility, etc. (not that agility would be a wise choice)

As for the rest of your post I'd say you're mostly right. Assuming it's true that a webbed freighter can instawarp (besides lock on time of webbing ship). Then it's a simple matter of scouting the grids properly and bringing as many webs as needed.

Bam, nerf.

If you want CHOICES, give a freighter 3 low slots. Adjust freighter stats so that if you fit one cargo expander, one nanofiber, and one DCU, you get the same cargo/align/speed/EHP as they have now. THEN, bam, choices.

Of course, this only works if 1) CCP fixes DCU's to not be activated modules (something they have stated was never intentional but merely a mechanic necessary to restrict them to one per ship, long before they added the more recent code to handle that "properly") and 2) CCP adds a separate stackable hull-resist low slot module (or alternately a low-slot that adds a % to structure) so that you actually have a choice of stacking resists/EHP in the other two lows on top of the DCU.



Not in hisec. The average hisec route doesn't come anywhere close to an avg warp distance of 50AU, which would be the break-even under the Rubicon changes. The avg warp distance is probably more like 20 or 25AU. Freighter trip times will be longer on the whole in hisec. Nevermind that instant undocks will also take twice as long now.



There are groups that are routinely killing freighters every 16-20 minutes in Niarja on a daily basis. Obviously you guys need to take some pointers from the Confederation of xXPIZZAXx.

The oft-repeated point all of the posts asking for SOME way for a freighter pilot to alter their ship is simple:

YOU should not know precisely what it will take to kill my ship before I even log in. A freighter pilot is the only pilot in the game that has absolutely zero choice in how their ship is fit.

Give me one low slot. Nerf my cargo capacity to where I need a T2 cargo expander to keep the same capacity. Let me decide if I want a DC II, nano, overdrive, or a cargo hold expander.

If I forget to activate my DC II, tough luck for me. If I have to make two trips instead of one, too bad. If it's not profitable for you to gank me because I have a DC II fitted, that's your response to my choice.

Decision, response. Action, reaction. Risk, reward.

This way, my survival can be based upon more than your ability to multi-box 10 clients - I have some input into the equation, too.

You'll still ba able to gank me, and, as I've stated elsewhere, you know with absolute certainty that people will carry more valuable cargo in a DC II-equipped freighter - you'll just have to work harder to steal it.

You're not afraid to actually work at stealing my stuff, like I had to in order to obtain it, are you?

While you have no choice in fitting your freighter, you have choices to affect your eHP. Fleet bonuses, gang links (Shield and Armor HP/Resistance) and Implants come to mind. We can't know beforehand what it takes to kill your ship.



Why not nerf the EHP to where you need a DCU2 to achieve current eHP level? Why the nerf to cargo capacity? Freighters aren't easy to gank (there would be a lot more dead freighters if they were)



And then you complain about people multiboxing 20 man fleets. We've seen it before, with the mining barges/exhumer rebalance. A massive buff to survivabilty - only to have people ask for more. It's always "Just one more nerf to ganking, then it's in the right place". If you are up against 13 dps ships, why do you think you should survive for longer than 25 seconds? Most combat ships don't last that long to such firepower, why should an unarmed freighter?



Tell me again how bringing 13-20 dps, looters, bumpers, suicide agressors, suicide ecm and scouts together is easy. Don't you think that more freighters would die each day when it were that easy and profitable?

Perhaps you haven't noticed - the vast majority of miner ganks are of ships that don't have a DC II fitted. Smart pilots making smart choices to enhance their survivability by reducing their mining capability in return for a tougher ship.

My choice to gimp my cargo capacity should be rewarded with a tougher ship, not one that is just as easy for you to kill. Why should I be forced to accept all of the risk in this equation, making my job much harder in return for you having an even easier target if I need to transport bulk (Cargo II), want a faster align time (Nano II), or a speedier ship (Overdrive)? These fitting choices all include a built-in penalty - why should those penalties be added to? How about you put some skin into the game, instead of expecting CCP to make my life tougher, and your life not at all inconvenienced? You want all of the reward, in return for my work and my risk.

And, before you start typing your outraged response that 'ganking is a high-risk activity!', spare all of us your BS. It's been made nothing but easier, even with marginally faster Concord response time.

Its still not about is it easy or not or fun, whatever. Simply the cost of ganking are fallen to 300m so the safe limit of hauling has decreased to between 1-2B or less, even you killed by fun.

So the point is not to make it harder, but somehow need to increase the price (valuse) limit where its start to be risky to haul something because currently it is low or none exist.

Let me see if I have this right:

You have the following factors in your favor:

1. Ridiculously high DPS on inexpensive destroyer hulls.
2. Tags for sec status (because making you actually go and WORK to regain sec status is asking too much).
3. Tier 3 BC's.
4. Concord doesn't pod you, no matter how low your sec status goes.
5. You can enter hisec with no fear of being podded by faction navies, no matter how low your sec status is.
6. No matter how low your sec status is, all the faction or Concord entities at a gate will do is web you, making it even easier for you to travel safely through hisec.
7. Ship scanners
8. Cargo scanners
9. Bumping a freighter deliberately does not allow others to shoot your cowardly ass.
10. Ganking out of a noob corp so that you're immune to consequences of your actions.

WAH, WAH, WAH!!! DON'T TAKE AWAY MY FUN BY MAKING IT HARDER FOR ME TO HARVEST TEARS FROM THOSE SISSY CAREBEARS!!! CCP, DON'T BE MEAN TO ME!!!

You have to put up with:

1. No insurance payout
2. Concord now arrives on-scene marginally more quickly than a couple of years ago.
3. People saying freighters are too easy to kill

You still can't offer up one valid reason why you should hold all of the cards with respect to me arriving at my destination. As for your statements about 'bring friends', I would suggest that you do the same. Let me have the option to fit my ship as I desire, and you deal with the consequences. If you STILL want the cargo in my DC II-fit freighter, 'bring friends'. Use the tools you have available - cargo scanners, ship scanners, bumping Machariels, stupidly high DPS destroyers, ridiculously unbalanced Tier 3 BC's, and everything else you have going in your favor, and HTFU!

Let's see:

1. Destroyer hulls trade DPS for survivability. You can't gank with Destroyers in range of gate-guns, they can easily one-shotted by a Hurricane.
2. The tags don't magically appear on the market, you need to either do the work of hunting those NPCs or pay someone to do it.
3. These are called Attack Battlecruisers and with the removal of Insurance ganks with these cost roughly the same as pre-Insurance nerf Battleships, so no change there.
4. Neither do mission or incursion NPCs. I'm all for introducing NPC podding, you have my upvote there.
5. At -5 security status, EVERY SINGLE PLAYER in eve can freely attack, without fear of CONCORD intervention. See 4.
6. Another sign that you don't know game mechanics. The Faction Police will warp scramble you, so you have to use fast aligning ships. CONCORD retaliates and INSTANTLY scrambles your ship if you commit a criminal offense. The Faction Navy does indeed only web, but since they only come in play for -5 FACTION standings (or involvement in FW), they don't matter for ganks.
7. Because Freighters have such a variety of fitting options?
8. Use a Blockade Runner?
9. Neither does bumping away our bump ships.
10. I didn't know that 4S or Goonswarm Federation were noobcorps that can't be wardecced.

Dead wrong: 3, 6, 7, 9, 10.
Half wrong: 1, 2, 5, 8
I kinda agree with point 4, NPCs should pod everywhere (after a small delay, like 5 seconds)



We have to put up with:

1. No insurance payout (offset through the Attack Battlecruisers)
2. CONCORD response times have been vastly reduced
3. Slingshot ganking isn't possible anymore
4. You can't tank CONCORD any more
5. Looter goes suspect (is attackable by EVERY PLAYER IN THE GAME)
6. At -5 security status, the Faction Policy will scram you, making it impossible to use slow ships
7. Killrights can be sold, meaning that for 30 days after a gank I can't do safely missions or Incursions in high-sec
8. Freighters using NPC corps to avoid war declarations



In response to seeing 13-20 people involved in a freighter who flies solo your argument is "Bring friends"? Am I missing something here? How many freighters do you see getting ganked by single pilots? Know what, give me one (api-verified) killmail of a successful solo gank against a Freighter in high-sec and I'll send you 10 Billion ISK.



This is a thread about how Freighters are too easy to gank (which they are not, else there would be a lot more freighters ganked each day) and have no fitting options (which they don't need). No one is arguing that ganking should be made easier. Your "HTFU" should instead be directed at those people that constantly whine about freighters being too weak (which they are not, else there would be more than a dozen dying each day).

There is no 'safe hauling value', that concept is meaningless. Sometimes, it's simply the killmail that someone's after. The issue here is whether or not a freighter pilot should have the ability to gimp the primary purpose of his ship (cargo capacity) in order to make it more survivable, just as miners do (except that there's no 'Hulk', 'Mackinaw', and 'Skiff' versions of freighters, they're ALL 'Hulks', with minimal tank, maximum capacity).

Your suggestion that I bring escorts with high alpha, two webbing ships, and a couple of ECM hulls to escort my single freighter is what prompted the 'bring friends' comment, as in, if I have to bring more help, so should you. As for single pilots ganking freighters, you know damned well that there have been multi-boxed ganks.