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Wormholes

 
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What is wrong with wormhole space?

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Author
Sukur
WhiteOps
#381 - 2013-10-11 11:25:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Sukur
What if some wormhole had a variable static?.

Say:

-This worm has always a Magnetar static, be it C1-6.

or

-This worm has always a C1-6 static with a Cn static.

or

-This worm opens to a npc null 50% times and lowsec FW 50%

or

-This wormhole statics last a random time, like 1-3 hours or 1-3 days and cant be colapsed by mass


I just find the static mechanic a bit repetitive.
Sandslinger
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#382 - 2013-10-11 13:48:22 UTC
Sukur wrote:
What if some wormhole had a variable static?.

Say:

-This worm has always a Magnetar static, be it C1-6.

or

-This worm has always a C1-6 static with a Cn static.

or

-This worm opens to a npc null 50% times and lowsec FW 50%

or

-This wormhole statics last a random time, like 1-3 hours or 1-3 days and cant be colapsed by mass


I just find the static mechanic a bit repetitive.



You do understand that what your asking for is wormholes to be more like stargates don't you. For how few of some system effects there is your basically creating a constellation.

I don't get you people, wormhole statics is too repetetive quickly make them more like stargates............

Even the npc null etc 50% of the idea is a terrible terrible idea. It would means that corps can fill a system with capitals hundredfold faster then currently and also never need to go outside of their one system for empire logistics. How does that encourage pew whatsoever.
Sukur
WhiteOps
#383 - 2013-10-11 14:46:34 UTC
Sandslinger wrote:
Sukur wrote:
What if some wormhole had a variable static?.

Say:

-This worm has always a Magnetar static, be it C1-6.

or

-This worm has always a C1-6 static with a Cn static.

or

-This worm opens to a npc null 50% times and lowsec FW 50%

or

-This wormhole statics last a random time, like 1-3 hours or 1-3 days and cant be colapsed by mass


I just find the static mechanic a bit repetitive.



You do understand that what your asking for is wormholes to be more like stargates don't you. For how few of some system effects there is your basically creating a constellation.

I don't get you people, wormhole statics is too repetetive quickly make them more like stargates............

Even the npc null etc 50% of the idea is a terrible terrible idea. It would means that corps can fill a system with capitals hundredfold faster then currently and also never need to go outside of their one system for empire logistics. How does that encourage pew whatsoever.


The stargate thing wont be hard to avoid, make more "effected" systems or something, or maybe just an increased percentage.

About the 50%50% thing i was thinking in smaller class wormholes, aimed to corps that can provide <10 gangs. You may add size limits or something so no capitals passing. Its just that when curse or syndicate opens on my static its like party time. Good for Gypsy like small gang pvp corps. Deep nulls on the other had ar mostly boring, because jumpbridge batphoning maybe, or emptyness in general.

The ideas should be properly developed to make them really possible or balance. But that is DevĀ“s work ;), and its a fact that if you collapse 5-20 worms every day you DO get bored of your static, and boredoom its an issue in a game.
Kalel Nimrott
Caldari Provisions
#384 - 2013-10-11 14:59:16 UTC
I would rather chage your connection out to be a little more wxtreme in c4. Two statics, one pretty much like they have now and the second to c5/c6 space. Could possibly make c4 more interesting.

Bob Artis, you will be missed.

O7

Dmitry Wizard
Hard Knocks Inc.
Hard Knocks Citizens
#385 - 2013-10-11 23:39:42 UTC
I got to thinking today a out wormhole effects now why wouldn't a wormholes effect slightly seep out from its connection (for a short distance)

Say your pulsar hole connected to a vanilla hole. Now a certain amount of km inside the vanilla hole your pulsars effect would seep through albeit at a reduced percentage the higher your class hole the stronger the seep through

If you had a wolf rayet and pulsar connect at the same time the inside the wolf rayet the effects would be stronger for armour and the pulsars effect would be reduced in range and vice versa but say your c5 pulsar connected to a c3 wolf rayet your pulsars effect would be stronger or something to that effect. Being that the wormhole is directly connected to the system I can't see why the effect wouldn't be able to seep through to the other system through the singularity itself.

Might need to collect the whole thought process together and edit this a bit when I get home. But it could make on hole engagements a bit more tricky when encountering system effects.... begin flaming!

"Wormhole corps are like a bunch of homeschooled kids"

Xequecal
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#386 - 2013-10-13 01:04:58 UTC
HerrBert wrote:
1 in 500 everytime doesnt mean 50/50 after 30 HOURS...it means still 1 in 500 ... you can roll the same hole multiple times
YOUR MATH doesnt work in this realm


Holy **** you people are terrible at math. The odds of not connecting to the C5 you want when you roll the hole are 511/512. The odds of not connecting to the C5 you want when you roll the hole twice are (511/512)^2. The odds of finding any given C5 after N hole rolls is (1 - (511/512)^N).

When (511/512)^N = 0.5, N is 354.5. At five minutes per roll, that's 1772.5 minutes to have a 50/50 chance of finding the hole you want, or 29.6 hours.
calaretu
Honestly We didnt know
#387 - 2013-10-13 11:37:38 UTC
Xequecal wrote:
HerrBert wrote:
1 in 500 everytime doesnt mean 50/50 after 30 HOURS...it means still 1 in 500 ... you can roll the same hole multiple times
YOUR MATH doesnt work in this realm


Holy **** you people are terrible at math. The odds of not connecting to the C5 you want when you roll the hole are 511/512. The odds of not connecting to the C5 you want when you roll the hole twice are (511/512)^2. The odds of finding any given C5 after N hole rolls is (1 - (511/512)^N).

When (511/512)^N = 0.5, N is 354.5. At five minutes per roll, that's 1772.5 minutes to have a 50/50 chance of finding the hole you want, or 29.6 hours.


That is only assuming existing k162 in target wh doesnt affect your chance of rolling into that wh.
ExookiZ
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
#388 - 2013-10-13 12:16:00 UTC
Xequecal wrote:
HerrBert wrote:
1 in 500 everytime doesnt mean 50/50 after 30 HOURS...it means still 1 in 500 ... you can roll the same hole multiple times
YOUR MATH doesnt work in this realm


Holy **** you people are terrible at math. The odds of not connecting to the C5 you want when you roll the hole are 511/512. The odds of not connecting to the C5 you want when you roll the hole twice are (511/512)^2. The odds of finding any given C5 after N hole rolls is (1 - (511/512)^N).

When (511/512)^N = 0.5, N is 354.5. At five minutes per roll, that's 1772.5 minutes to have a 50/50 chance of finding the hole you want, or 29.6 hours.


your also assuming that they are random and thats how it picks your next static.

I am under the impression that everytime a Wh closes, CCP Grayscale, or one of his henchmen simply looks and picks your new static for you. We have systematically charted our chances of finding pew, and determined it is heavily reliant on his mood. When he is angry or sad our chances of rolling into a empty WH are extremely high, and when he is cheerful, or wants to see someone die we roll righ into farmers. It is also how WH rolling works.

Much more reasonable than your silly "math"

Event Organizer of EVE North East

Lorrin Kado
Lorrin Kado Corporation
#389 - 2013-10-15 23:09:30 UTC
The whs are very good as it is. I seriously doubt any change except obvious improvements like subsystems swaps or Alliance bookmarks will make them better, not worse
Sandslinger
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#390 - 2013-10-16 01:57:27 UTC
Xequecal wrote:
HerrBert wrote:
1 in 500 everytime doesnt mean 50/50 after 30 HOURS...it means still 1 in 500 ... you can roll the same hole multiple times
YOUR MATH doesnt work in this realm


Holy **** you people are terrible at math. The odds of not connecting to the C5 you want when you roll the hole are 511/512. The odds of not connecting to the C5 you want when you roll the hole twice are (511/512)^2. The odds of finding any given C5 after N hole rolls is (1 - (511/512)^N).

When (511/512)^N = 0.5, N is 354.5. At five minutes per roll, that's 1772.5 minutes to have a 50/50 chance of finding the hole you want, or 29.6 hours.



Tested this the other day for absolute certainty. Any new hole appears within 45 seconds, your figure of a few minutes is absolute hogwash, like the rest of your "assumptions"

If your not rolling a new hole within every 2.5 minutes your doing it wrong Blink
Rythm
True Power Team
#391 - 2013-10-16 03:59:16 UTC
Sandslinger wrote:

If your not rolling a new hole within every 2.5 minutes your doing it wrong Blink

For 13+ hours.
probehelper much ?
Ilaister
Binary Aesthetics
#392 - 2013-10-18 19:20:55 UTC
Nero Pantera wrote:
isnt that basic statistics....it's like a penny...no matter how many times you previously flipped heads..you still have a 1/2 chance to flip heads on the current flip


Didn't we all learn this argument in primary school maths?

Give the goon his due, he posted in the WH forum. That's a decent start.
Gnaw LF
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#393 - 2013-10-18 20:18:20 UTC
Xequecal wrote:
Sandslinger wrote:
You have no idea how wormholes invasions work. None whatsoever. Zip, Nada Squelch, Zero. But thank you for posting your opinion Cool



The higher class holes (C6/C5) are hard to impossible to isolate concerted efforts to find them will always succeed.

Chance of finding C6 is 1/100 Chance of finding C5 is 1/500. Sounds like a lot doesn't it. U can get a new chance every 1,5 to 3 minutes if your quick about it.

The lower class however are super easy to isolate.



At even a generous estimate of five minutes per hole rolled, (you have to scan the new static down and it takes a few minutes to respawn) it takes thirty hours of nothing but hole rolling to have a 50/50 chance of connecting to any given C5.



WRONG. You don't roll into a random hole if you roll your static. This is something you would know if you lived in w-space. There is a SEED that creates a random static and that seed is very weird. For example, you happen to collapse your c5 static and the next one you rolled in is a c5-c4. You scan it and there is nothing but the c4 in your static, you feel like trolling nullbears so you roll the static again. If statics were truly random there would be little chance of rolling into another c5-c4, but that is exactly what happens. You scan the static again and again you find nothing but the c4, you roll again. Damn! Another c5-c4, what are the odds? Except that after residing for a while you begin noticing that this becomes a pattern.

Sometimes you roll into nothing but c5-c5s, thats fine with you, many other days you roll into something not as desirable, like c5-c4 or c5-c3. You notice that its not just random, but you get a sort of a seed that keeps spitting you out into particular regions. Yeah, there can be a random c5-c5 in that seed but its very rare. So no, you don't have a 50/50 chance of rolling into something after 30 hours.
Bane Nucleus
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#394 - 2013-10-18 21:50:24 UTC
All wormholes need two statics. Problem solved

No trolling please

Kalel Nimrott
Caldari Provisions
#395 - 2013-10-18 23:38:50 UTC
Well, my fellow Red Coat person, maybe some, but not all.

Bob Artis, you will be missed.

O7

Bane Nucleus
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#396 - 2013-10-18 23:53:27 UTC
Kalel Nimrott wrote:
Well, my fellow Red Coat person, maybe some, but not all.


Dearest Sir,

I regret to inform you that I disagree with your point, regardless of your obvious nobility shown in wearing said Red Coat. I firmly believe all wormhole should have 2 statics.

Respectfully Yours,

Bane Nucleus

No trolling please

7enn
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#397 - 2013-10-19 00:33:58 UTC
Bane,

I want my jacket back. It's been 2 years since I loaned it to you. And the 3 pack of magnums better still be in the inside pocket.

WH space need grape belts. You could warp to them while your corp noobs are scanning and scouting and just kind of snack out while you wait.
Kalel Nimrott
Caldari Provisions
#398 - 2013-10-19 03:09:53 UTC
Bane Nucleus wrote:
Kalel Nimrott wrote:
Well, my fellow Red Coat person, maybe some, but not all.


Dearest Sir,

I regret to inform you that I disagree with your point, regardless of your obvious nobility shown in wearing said Red Coat. I firmly believe all wormhole should have 2 statics.

Respectfully Yours,

Bane Nucleus


Jxxxxxx
E-R00024
E-C00234
October 19, 2013

Mr. Bane Nucleus
Member, Free Agent
Negative Density
Unkown Adress

Dearest Sir,

No.

Yours sincerely,

Kalel Nimrott

Bob Artis, you will be missed.

O7

Bane Nucleus
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#399 - 2013-10-19 04:17:14 UTC
7enn wrote:
Bane,

I want my jacket back. It's been 2 years since I loaned it to you. And the 3 pack of magnums better still be in the inside pocket.

WH space need grape belts. You could warp to them while your corp noobs are scanning and scouting and just kind of snack out while you wait.


I sent it but it got a return to sender. Did you move wormholes? P

No trolling please

Ahost Gceo
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#400 - 2013-10-19 08:29:05 UTC
It boils down to the fact that k-space is far easier to live in than w-space. Your entrances and routes are known and never move, you can see everyone in your system, there are stations...the list goes on. This list of things probably deters a good number of newer players from moving in to w-space permanently. Some may do exploration a couple times in C1s and C2s, then find it too time consuming to scan and plan an assault versus the reward for those sites, they most certainly will not ever see C5 or C6 space because why would anyone just wanting to do sites go that deep? Between wormhole life requiring far more commitment than the average new user is willing to put into EVE and the usual boundary for exploration being dropped at C1s and C2s, you can probably imagine why C3s on up are fairly stagnant.

On the same note, because of the same things that make w-space more challenging than k-space and the fact there is (from my observations) very little growth in PvP friendly entities in higher class systems, veterans and older newbies of our beloved w-space burn out. These people do things such as:

1. Go completely inactive. Unwilling to leave their corp or alliance but finding the game far more of a hassle than something to enjoy, they fade into nothingness or merely log on to update training queues. This most notably increases the chances other players in the same entity will go inactive or leave, weakening the w-space community.

2. Leave their corp or alliance for a k-space entity, most likely in nullsec or lowsec. This again lowers the number of players in the w-space community.

To most it would seem as if I was leading into suggesting that w-space be made even easier to live in. I'd rather ask that k-space be made harder to live in. Chances are almost all the things I could possibly suggest like local player lists being hidden and so on and so forth have been cried for umpteen number of times, even by people who don't dwell in w-space. If CCP wants to really rejuvenate w-space there will have to be a silly amount of new content added along with further isk making incentives (as if C5-C6 sites aren't lucrative already) or they could squeeze people slowly out of their comfort zones in k-space, which I hope is the direction they are picking.

CCP ignore me please, I make too much sense.