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YES YOU CAN HAVE MY STUFF / DNSBLACK LOOKING FOR GTC SELLER

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Darius JOHNSON
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#201 - 2013-10-18 20:29:40 UTC
Money Makin Mitch wrote:
Darius JOHNSON wrote:
Just so I'm clear, even though this is hilarious and I said the EULA forbids this specific behavior that doesn't mean I don't think CCP can decide to grandfather people into these situations and that you're not a giant bunch of spoiled paying customers.

FTFY Cool


The two clearly aren't mutually exclusive as evidenced by the consistent behavior of this "community" which is nothing short of toxic and disgusting. Being a paying customer doesn't excuse or entitle boorish behavior. It entitles you to log into a video game and that's about it. Not that I expect any of that to actually make sense to any of you.
Shai 'Hulud
#202 - 2013-10-18 20:34:06 UTC
I just want to know wtf is so wrong with "shai tickets" Cry

Oh right ... the word SOMER is not mentioned in the name. I get it now.

The most useful slaves are those that believe themselves to be free
Kazanir
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#203 - 2013-10-18 20:38:39 UTC
Darius JOHNSON wrote:
Money Makin Mitch wrote:
Darius JOHNSON wrote:
Just so I'm clear, even though this is hilarious and I said the EULA forbids this specific behavior that doesn't mean I don't think CCP can decide to grandfather people into these situations and that you're not a giant bunch of spoiled paying customers.

FTFY Cool


The two clearly aren't mutually exclusive as evidenced by the consistent behavior of this "community" which is nothing short of toxic and disgusting. Being a paying customer doesn't excuse or entitle boorish behavior. It entitles you to log into a video game and that's about it. Not that I expect any of that to actually make sense to any of you.


You seem grumpy. Is it because you let Somer get away with this activity -- which you now decry as clearly violating the EULA under any and all interpretations of it -- for many years?
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#204 - 2013-10-18 20:40:30 UTC  |  Edited by: PotatoOverdose
Darius JOHNSON wrote:


The two clearly aren't mutually exclusive as evidenced by the consistent behavior of this "community" which is nothing short of toxic and disgusting. Being a paying customer doesn't excuse or entitle boorish behavior. It entitles you to log into a video game and that's about it. Not that I expect any of that to actually make sense to any of you.


What boorish behavior is that? Somer offers in game ships for blink credits that can be acquired through purchasing GTC. That is both acceptable and encouraged by CCP.

When someone else (like Shai) does the exact same thing (ships for credits acquired by purchasing GTC), their thread gets locked, and bans are threatened.
Either the practice is legitimate and everyone can partake, or the practice is RMT and illegitimate. How exactly is this boorish?
Darius JOHNSON
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#205 - 2013-10-18 20:45:12 UTC
Kazanir wrote:
Darius JOHNSON wrote:
Money Makin Mitch wrote:
Darius JOHNSON wrote:
Just so I'm clear, even though this is hilarious and I said the EULA forbids this specific behavior that doesn't mean I don't think CCP can decide to grandfather people into these situations and that you're not a giant bunch of spoiled paying customers.

FTFY Cool


The two clearly aren't mutually exclusive as evidenced by the consistent behavior of this "community" which is nothing short of toxic and disgusting. Being a paying customer doesn't excuse or entitle boorish behavior. It entitles you to log into a video game and that's about it. Not that I expect any of that to actually make sense to any of you.


You seem grumpy. Is it because you let Somer get away with this activity -- which you now decry as clearly violating the EULA under any and all interpretations of it -- for many years?


You have me confused with someone who would have been empowered to make a decision on this. I'm not surprised as it fits the usual narrative re: how informed on a particular subject this community tends to be before reacting to it.
Darius JOHNSON
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#206 - 2013-10-18 20:46:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Darius JOHNSON
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Darius JOHNSON wrote:


The two clearly aren't mutually exclusive as evidenced by the consistent behavior of this "community" which is nothing short of toxic and disgusting. Being a paying customer doesn't excuse or entitle boorish behavior. It entitles you to log into a video game and that's about it. Not that I expect any of that to actually make sense to any of you.


What boorish behavior is that? Somer offers in game ships for blink credits that can be acquired through purchasing GTC. That is both acceptable and encouraged by CCP.

When someone else (like Shai) does the exact same thing (ships for credits acquired by purchasing GTC), their thread gets locked, and bans are threatened.
Either the practice is legitimate and everyone can partake, or the practice is RMT and illegitimate. How exactly is this boorish?


I'm referring to various reactions of people calling for people's jobs, threatening people's lives, wishing harm upon people's families, the usual over the top and completely unnecessary nonsense that occurs whenever anonymous videogame nerds on the internet have "their" toys moved in the slightest

eve players are just particularly bad
Moira Ayindi
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#207 - 2013-10-18 20:51:15 UTC
Because Somer

A)diesn't ask for thousends of dollar
B) CCP is getting a share
C) they are atleast trying to hide it
D) do you really think that the website is free? With all these gamer constantly refreshing it?

I would be surprised if Somer is even doing a profit from the GTC sales.

Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#208 - 2013-10-18 20:52:46 UTC
Darius JOHNSON wrote:
Kazanir wrote:
Darius JOHNSON wrote:
Money Makin Mitch wrote:
Darius JOHNSON wrote:
Just so I'm clear, even though this is hilarious and I said the EULA forbids this specific behavior that doesn't mean I don't think CCP can decide to grandfather people into these situations and that you're not a giant bunch of spoiled paying customers.

FTFY Cool


The two clearly aren't mutually exclusive as evidenced by the consistent behavior of this "community" which is nothing short of toxic and disgusting. Being a paying customer doesn't excuse or entitle boorish behavior. It entitles you to log into a video game and that's about it. Not that I expect any of that to actually make sense to any of you.


You seem grumpy. Is it because you let Somer get away with this activity -- which you now decry as clearly violating the EULA under any and all interpretations of it -- for many years?


You have me confused with someone who would have been empowered to make a decision on this. I'm not surprised as it fits the usual narrative re: how informed on a particular subject this community tends to be before reacting to it.

I mean as the former head of security, who took several public actions to curb botting and RMT I could see where your old job description would not have covered dismantling a scheme to convert real life money into isk

but I have never worked at CCP nor am I familiar with their orgchart so you can have a gimmie on this one

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#209 - 2013-10-18 20:54:40 UTC
Moira Ayindi wrote:
Because Somer

A)diesn't ask for thousends of dollar
B) CCP is getting a share
C) they are atleast trying to hide it
D) do you really think that the website is free? With all these gamer constantly refreshing it?

I would be surprised if Somer is even doing a profit from the GTC sales.


It's cheaper to run a website than a lot of people think. I just got an affiliate check today for 260 bucks from just one company for 5 clicks. SOMER is coming out on top, I promise you. ...and good for him. Just level the playing field, CCP.

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Money Makin Mitch
Paid in Full
#210 - 2013-10-18 20:55:00 UTC
Darius JOHNSON wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Darius JOHNSON wrote:


The two clearly aren't mutually exclusive as evidenced by the consistent behavior of this "community" which is nothing short of toxic and disgusting. Being a paying customer doesn't excuse or entitle boorish behavior. It entitles you to log into a video game and that's about it. Not that I expect any of that to actually make sense to any of you.


What boorish behavior is that? Somer offers in game ships for blink credits that can be acquired through purchasing GTC. That is both acceptable and encouraged by CCP.

When someone else (like Shai) does the exact same thing (ships for credits acquired by purchasing GTC), their thread gets locked, and bans are threatened.
Either the practice is legitimate and everyone can partake, or the practice is RMT and illegitimate. How exactly is this boorish?


I'm referring to various reactions of people calling for people's jobs, threatening people's lives, wishing harm upon people's families, the usual over the top and completely unnecessary nonsense that occurs whenever anonymous videogame nerds on the internet have "their" toys moved in the slightest

eve players are just particularly bad

i haven't seen much or any of that happen yet. unless ''calling for people's jobs'' means threatening to unsub if they **** in the sandbox. which is our legitimate right as customers to do.
Darius JOHNSON
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#211 - 2013-10-18 20:57:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Darius JOHNSON
Querns wrote:
Darius JOHNSON wrote:


You have me confused with someone who would have been empowered to make a decision on this. I'm not surprised as it fits the usual narrative re: how informed on a particular subject this community tends to be before reacting to it.

I mean as the former head of security, who took several public actions to curb botting and RMT I could see where your old job description would not have covered dismantling a scheme to convert real life money into isk

but I have never worked at CCP nor am I familiar with their orgchart so you can have a gimmie on this one


I'm a bit curious honestly how long the GTC component's been in play because I would have had an issue with that if I knew about it. I always thought they were just a pure isk lottery. If it's been in play for a long time then hehehehe.

:Edit: though the more I think about it... this is just a referral program which everyone's always been cool with. It's even used on a lot of alliance forums. In the case of this OP it's just being openly gamed, which is where that crosses the line.
Money Makin Mitch
Paid in Full
#212 - 2013-10-18 20:58:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Money Makin Mitch
Moira Ayindi wrote:
Because Somer

A)diesn't ask for thousends of dollar
B) CCP is getting a share
C) they are atleast trying to hide it
D) do you really think that the website is free? With all these gamer constantly refreshing it?

I would be surprised if Somer is even doing a profit from the GTC sales.



i'm sure they've made thousands of dollars through those plex sales throughout the years. lots of people buy through them, and it's for the free 200m credit. i don't oppose them doing this btw, i have no problem with Somer making real money. i do have a problem with CCP playing favourites. either we all can do it, or somer deserves a ban. there can't be a middle ground... erm... 'grey area'
Darius JOHNSON
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#213 - 2013-10-18 20:58:24 UTC
Money Makin Mitch wrote:
Darius JOHNSON wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Darius JOHNSON wrote:


The two clearly aren't mutually exclusive as evidenced by the consistent behavior of this "community" which is nothing short of toxic and disgusting. Being a paying customer doesn't excuse or entitle boorish behavior. It entitles you to log into a video game and that's about it. Not that I expect any of that to actually make sense to any of you.


What boorish behavior is that? Somer offers in game ships for blink credits that can be acquired through purchasing GTC. That is both acceptable and encouraged by CCP.

When someone else (like Shai) does the exact same thing (ships for credits acquired by purchasing GTC), their thread gets locked, and bans are threatened.
Either the practice is legitimate and everyone can partake, or the practice is RMT and illegitimate. How exactly is this boorish?


I'm referring to various reactions of people calling for people's jobs, threatening people's lives, wishing harm upon people's families, the usual over the top and completely unnecessary nonsense that occurs whenever anonymous videogame nerds on the internet have "their" toys moved in the slightest

eve players are just particularly bad

i haven't seen much or any of that happen yet. unless ''calling for people's jobs'' means threatening to unsub if they **** in the sandbox. which is our legitimate right as customers to do.


f5 faster, read facebook, read twitter

You're seeing the "polite" portions of the conversation
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#214 - 2013-10-18 20:59:04 UTC  |  Edited by: PotatoOverdose
Darius JOHNSON wrote:


I'm referring to various reactions of people calling for people's jobs, threatening people's lives, wishing harm upon people's families, the usual over the top and completely unnecessary nonsense that occurs whenever anonymous videogame nerds on the internet have "their" toys moved in the slightest

TBH I haven't seen too much of that in this thread, but in general your probably right, it is a problem. But not a problem unique to Eve, or this particular topic at hand.

The way I see it, CCP has two options. Ban or otherwise punish the practice at large (and ALL those that practiced it), everyone should be held equal before the same rule set.

Or, allow this option of "cashing" out. Not that novel really. People pay plex to buy/sell characters in Eve, a tithe to CCP. Trading characters is bannable in other MMO's too. So allow this form of "cashing out" via GTC, a tithe to CCP. "Cashing out" is a forbidden practice in other MMO's as well. Someone quitting eve? Direct them to an accredited "transition agent."

Whatever CCP chooses to do, they should treat everyone equally. If Somer is allowed to do this, let all do this. If DNSBlack and Shai 'Hulud are punished for doing this, punish Somer for doing the exact same thing for years.

Equality before the same rule set. Nothing more, nothing less is all we ask.
Money Makin Mitch
Paid in Full
#215 - 2013-10-18 21:01:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Money Makin Mitch
Darius JOHNSON wrote:

f5 faster, read facebook, read twitter

You're seeing the "polite" portions of the conversation
i don't do facebook or twitter. i don't even like the forums usually. i'm just here because this **** is unfair and hurts my gameplay. the dev is literally showering my competition with gifts that in turn devalue the worth of my own assets. i can't be a trader if i have to work for mines while others get free dev spawns.
Moira Ayindi
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#216 - 2013-10-18 21:04:03 UTC
Gogela wrote:
Moira Ayindi wrote:
Because Somer

A)diesn't ask for thousends of dollar
B) CCP is getting a share
C) they are atleast trying to hide it
D) do you really think that the website is free? With all these gamer constantly refreshing it?

I would be surprised if Somer is even doing a profit from the GTC sales.


It's cheaper to run a website than a lot of people think. I just got an affiliate check today for 260 bucks from just one company for 5 clicks. SOMER is coming out on top, I promise you. ...and good for him. Just level the playing field, CCP.


Between having a website (frm 0$ up to 16.000$) and running a high traffic website you can accumulate very fast some very big bills.

Th problem with all the accusations agais t Somer is that we don't hav any numbers. And the few bloggers who tried to do that were really ****** up. Never played Somer , were biased or just stupid.

But all these people are quick with accusation and even worse, with judging o.O

Hopefully CCP will investigate Somer a little bit closer . Perhaps an audit? XD
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#217 - 2013-10-18 21:09:56 UTC
Darius JOHNSON wrote:
In the case of this OP it's just being openly gamed, which is where that crosses the line.

How is it any different then what blink did? Blink has raffled off unique ships for Blink Credits before, on many occasions. Blink credits can be acquired through purchasing GTCs from Somer via Markee. Somer makes $$ off this transaction, and the ships are given in exchange for blink credits.

Shai 'Hulud did the exact. same. thing. Ships in exchange for Shai credits acquired by purchasing GTC. It is the exact same model. If you cry foul, then establish a strict criteria and hold ALL to the same criteria. And make no mistake, Somer has made thousands of dollars off of Blink credits for GTC referrals.
Money Makin Mitch
Paid in Full
#218 - 2013-10-18 21:12:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Money Makin Mitch
Moira Ayindi wrote:
Gogela wrote:
Moira Ayindi wrote:
Because Somer

A)diesn't ask for thousends of dollar
B) CCP is getting a share
C) they are atleast trying to hide it
D) do you really think that the website is free? With all these gamer constantly refreshing it?

I would be surprised if Somer is even doing a profit from the GTC sales.


It's cheaper to run a website than a lot of people think. I just got an affiliate check today for 260 bucks from just one company for 5 clicks. SOMER is coming out on top, I promise you. ...and good for him. Just level the playing field, CCP.


Between having a website (frm 0$ up to 16.000$) and running a high traffic website you can accumulate very fast some very big bills.

Th problem with all the accusations agais t Somer is that we don't hav any numbers. And the few bloggers who tried to do that were really ****** up. Never played Somer , were biased or just stupid.

But all these people are quick with accusation and even worse, with judging o.O

Hopefully CCP will investigate Somer a little bit closer . Perhaps an audit? XD


let's get this straight: their bills have nothing to do with what's going on here. they are a for-profit business, everything they do is to gain isk and directly benefit themselves. even if they do sponsor in-game events, one could argue that is advertisement and not necessarily altruistic behavior.

if they cannot afford to pay for their bills on their own, they don't need to operate.

if they are allowed to profit from their affiliate sales + blink credit bonuses, i have no problem with that at all, as long as i can do it too.
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#219 - 2013-10-18 21:14:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Gogela
Moira Ayindi wrote:
Gogela wrote:
Moira Ayindi wrote:
Because Somer

A)diesn't ask for thousends of dollar
B) CCP is getting a share
C) they are atleast trying to hide it
D) do you really think that the website is free? With all these gamer constantly refreshing it?

I would be surprised if Somer is even doing a profit from the GTC sales.


It's cheaper to run a website than a lot of people think. I just got an affiliate check today for 260 bucks from just one company for 5 clicks. SOMER is coming out on top, I promise you. ...and good for him. Just level the playing field, CCP.


Between having a website (frm 0$ up to 16.000$) and running a high traffic website you can accumulate very fast some very big bills.

Th problem with all the accusations agais t Somer is that we don't hav any numbers. And the few bloggers who tried to do that were really ****** up. Never played Somer , were biased or just stupid.

But all these people are quick with accusation and even worse, with judging o.O

Hopefully CCP will investigate Somer a little bit closer . Perhaps an audit? XD

High traffic sites can be somewhat of a drain on operating costs... but only if you have no idea what you are doing will you not come out on top. SOMER is pretty sharp. He knows what he's doing. Something as small as an adsense/adwords block will not only offset traffic costs, but start to generate passive income for equipment maintenance or whatever. You throw in affiliate links and stand the feck by because you can do really well. I know a guy who runs some blogs and other sites that pulled in 70k in one month from his affiliate links in July. One month! He's a lot smarter and more accomplished than me, but you see what is possible.

Edit: There are many ways to set up an affiliate account, too. SOMER I'm guessing gets a percentage of the sale, lets's say 10%. ...but it doesn't stop there. When you click his link you get a "SOMER cookie" that can stay on your system for some length of time. Say 2 weeks. If you back to CCP and get a block of PLEX guess what? SOMER gets paid again. ...at least that's generally how affiliate links work. On average most companies set up a two week cookie... but some companies will do even better for you. I've set up affiliate programs for companies selling all sorts of things, and sometimes they will let their affiliates have cookies that persist for a month or two. So let's say you sell coffee... you set up a program whereby affiliates get 5% of the total sale and can have a cookie that persists for a month. The affiliate runs a news site... and does a big article on the best coffee in the world. They mask their affiliate link so it just looks like a normal link, and put their link into the article, which of course endorses the coffee makers product. What do you think the conversion rate would be on something like that? You would be shocked. You wouldn't believe how affiliate programs drive online sales. It's huge. The affiliates become huge, driven advocates for the companies they represent. It's like having highly motivated, dedicated sales team for the company that they don't have to pay anything but a tiny commission. No benefits, no overhead, just performance at a discount. Everyone wins.

I just wanted to make clear what affiliate programs are, how they kind of work, and how important they are to online sales. Don't underestimate the potential. Digital advertising accounts for over 20% ($30 billion+ ish) of all advertising just in the US, and often it's affiliate driven.

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Kazanir
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#220 - 2013-10-18 21:21:12 UTC
Darius JOHNSON wrote:
You have me confused with someone who would have been empowered to make a decision on this. I'm not surprised as it fits the usual narrative re: how informed on a particular subject this community tends to be before reacting to it.


Darius JOHNSON wrote:
I'm a bit curious honestly how long the GTC component's been in play because I would have had an issue with that if I knew about it. I always thought they were just a pure isk lottery. If it's been in play for a long time then hehehehe.

:Edit: though the more I think about it... this is just a referral program which everyone's always been cool with. It's even used on a lot of alliance forums. In the case of this OP it's just being openly gamed, which is where that crosses the line.


You are pretty quick to say that ~this community~ isn't informed on a particular topic just two posts before you then admit that you didn't actually know of the issue under discussion...

The GTC "component" of Blink has been in place for at least 3 years, and probably longer. Somer is gaming it just as openly as the OP is by offering Blink credits for GTC purchases. They are doing it in a "smaller" way (less $/ISK amount per transaction) but at a much greater scale.

No matter what you or anyone *says* about the EULA, it is only as good as what CCP enforces it to be -- and like it or not, CCP has been allowing this loophole to persist to the tune of many years and a great deal of money.

This thread might annoy various people by employing satire to point this out, but such is life.