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Fuel Blocks - Virtually Zero Profit - Need Advice

Author
Kalarax
A-31
#21 - 2013-08-19 21:35:34 UTC
Alexander Eisenhower wrote:

How can you subtract your raw material cost that you got from your own planets? I dont understand your logic. You have increased your profit by 1000isk/ per block. I'm an indy noob 4 sure but it sounds like its subject to market prices and where you got your info. Try actually selling all the materials and see if you actually make more. Than ask yourself which way is more fun? Personally, I enjoy following through with the process. But what do I know, I still struggle to buy a plex, lol


Because materials from your own planets are not free simply because you mined/PI'd them. They have a value associated with them which the OP correctly understands and incorporated into his profit margin determination.
Jin Jemai
Bees Nutz
Unlimited Epiphany
#22 - 2013-08-21 18:34:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Jin Jemai
Ok, all the fuel "block talk" has got me very interested.

my plan is to put up pos in hs, mine the ice, and make the blocks in my pos.

so...............

what do I need to max out on skills please?
Elena Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2013-08-21 18:39:54 UTC
Well, first run the numbers and see if the increased profit on the fuel blocks is worth having a POS at all. All it gains you is faster manufacturing.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#24 - 2013-08-22 00:07:52 UTC
I do it and me and my wallet and my 5 alts make 5 Bill ISK a month doing it.

No need to crunch numbers.

Train skills for POS, Marketing, PI, T2 Transports, Ice Mining, and an Orca Hauler.

Ice Mine with 2 Macks and an Orca

Train all 5 for PI.

Because the Ice Interdiction market affects are only a week or 2 old, I'll have my numbers soon for next month. It's already a lot more ISK though.

It's gonna take you awhile though for sure.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

Jin Jemai
Bees Nutz
Unlimited Epiphany
#25 - 2013-08-22 13:46:54 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
I do it and me and my wallet and my 5 alts make 5 Bill ISK a month doing it.

No need to crunch numbers.

Train skills for POS, Marketing, PI, T2 Transports, Ice Mining, and an Orca Hauler.

Ice Mine with 2 Macks and an Orca

Train all 5 for PI.

Because the Ice Interdiction market affects are only a week or 2 old, I'll have my numbers soon for next month. It's already a lot more ISK though.

It's gonna take you awhile though for sure.


good advise, thanks
Termy Rockling
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2013-08-22 14:08:29 UTC
You can easily get 5B+ with 2-3 chars manufacturing various t2 items without even touching mining barges also.
Icemining and PI are just some of the countless ways of making isk in the game. Roll
Styth spiting
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2013-08-22 23:43:47 UTC
Alexander Eisenhower wrote:

How can you subtract your raw material cost that you got from your own planets? I dont understand your logic. You have increased your profit by 1000isk/ per block. I'm an indy noob 4 sure but it sounds like its subject to market prices and where you got your info. Try actually selling all the materials and see if you actually make more. Than ask yourself which way is more fun? Personally, I enjoy following through with the process. But what do I know, I still struggle to buy a plex, lol


When using your own materials (regardless of what materials they are) you need to subtract the price you could have sold those materials for. For example if you manufacture an item that sells for 500k isk but it uses 600k in PI materials you have made a net profit of -100K isk. If you can manufacture an item that sells for 700k isk but it uses 400k in PI you have profited 300k isk over the costs of manufacturing with your own materials.


Also for the OP

1) It could be that you are inefficiently running your PI production for mats used in the fuel blocks. If you're doing something silly like exporting P1's then importing to make P2's and doing another export and import to make P3's for example then you are wasting about 15% of your profit from your PI materials if not more. If you're buying your PI mats you need 1 import/export (import P1 export P3) if you're making your own PI you need 1 export of P1, 1 import of P1 and 1 export of P3. Any more then this and you're wasting isk on taxes.

2) Ice prices are going crazy right now because of goons little ice events so the price of ice has increased considerably (for caldari ice at least) and the price of fuel blocks may not have increased at the same speed as the ice prices have. If you're making caldari ice for example you are better off waiting for fuel block prices to increase to match the material costs which will happen once back stock of fuel blocks decrease.
Lollipop Man
Space Assholes Inc.
#28 - 2013-08-24 08:08:44 UTC
Contact me in game. I will happily sort you out.
miner crom
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2013-10-18 02:17:55 UTC
Small POS

Buying fuel
7200 fuel blocks * price of fuel block (15,038 Isk) = 108,273,600

Mining it all
1080 blocks of ICE * Price of ICE Block selling (179,000 ISK) = 193,320,000

So conclusion, DO NOT MAKE YOUR FUEL BLOCKS, sell the ice and buy your fuel and have
85,046,400 in your pocket profit. not to mention freeing up your PI to manufacture profitable items.

OR you can mine less per month to fuel your POS...!!!

That would be 605 pieces of ICE (605 * 179,000 = 108,295,000)

Simple math shows the ICE product nerf needs to be looked at again.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#30 - 2013-10-18 06:55:16 UTC
miner crom wrote:
Small POS

Buying fuel
7200 fuel blocks * price of fuel block (15,038 Isk) = 108,273,600

Mining it all
1080 blocks of ICE * Price of ICE Block selling (179,000 ISK) = 193,320,000

So conclusion, DO NOT MAKE YOUR FUEL BLOCKS, sell the ice and buy your fuel and have
85,046,400 in your pocket profit. not to mention freeing up your PI to manufacture profitable items.

OR you can mine less per month to fuel your POS...!!!

That would be 605 pieces of ICE (605 * 179,000 = 108,295,000)

Simple math shows the ICE product nerf needs to be looked at again.



https://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/blueprints/0/4051/40/5/7/5 begs to differ.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#31 - 2013-10-18 11:20:07 UTC
Poasting in a NecroThread.

2 months have gone by, so I must edit my previous post of 4 Bill ISK/month Fuel Block sales to the more accurate 5 Bill a month.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

miner crom
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#32 - 2013-10-18 14:52:30 UTC  |  Edited by: miner crom
Well my math isn't wrong is it ?

Question do you ?

A. Mine your ICE products to make your fuel blocks.

B. Buy it off the market.

If your answer was B, then you are correct you can make cheap fuel blocks.

If your answer was A, you must take in account what the ICE is selling for on the market and explain to us, why it's better to refine it.



Being a simple Miner, these things gotta be laid out in simple terms...:)

Miner Crom


OOOOOOh, yeah I guess if you have access to mine Dark Glitter then you can make yourself cheap fuel blocks. But you still have to mine the regular ice to get the ISO out of em. (hum, is this what they call a conundrum?)
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#33 - 2013-10-18 15:30:16 UTC
I buy off the market.

Ony an idiot doesn't charge himself market rates for things.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

miner crom
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#34 - 2013-10-18 16:09:36 UTC
Great to hear that your buying off the market.

So you agree that mining your own ICE to make Fuel Blocks is a loss in profit.


Now, things I did not consider.

Out of the ICE cubes needed to make one Fuel Block you get twice the Heavy Water and about 480 more pieces of ISO than needed. (Rough figures, math off top of head)

So could you possibly come out cheaper or as cheap as the market ?

I will do the math and have results below.
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#35 - 2013-10-18 16:16:31 UTC
Kalarax wrote:
Alexander Eisenhower wrote:

How can you subtract your raw material cost that you got from your own planets? I dont understand your logic. You have increased your profit by 1000isk/ per block. I'm an indy noob 4 sure but it sounds like its subject to market prices and where you got your info. Try actually selling all the materials and see if you actually make more. Than ask yourself which way is more fun? Personally, I enjoy following through with the process. But what do I know, I still struggle to buy a plex, lol


Because materials from your own planets are not free simply because you mined/PI'd them. They have a value associated with them which the OP correctly understands and incorporated into his profit margin determination.

Very true, But what "price" is he using. If he values his raw materials at Jita sell prices then his profits will be minimal. Especially if he uses Jita buy prices for the end value of the fuel blocks. realistically yes, if you were buying the materials you would likely buy from Jita sells, and then sell the blocks to jita buys, but then would you not also sell your mats to Jita buys if you when that route and did not even build the blocks? Even so, 1,000 isk per block is a decent profit.

I agree 100% that you need to count the value of your mats, even if you produce them yourself at near zero cost, they still have a raw value you can sell them at. However you need to use a value that you could reasonably sell them at, not the absolute max you could possibly get for them. If you are using Jits buy prices for your final sale, then you should also use Jita buy prices for the value of the mats you made.

What i find is really funny about fuel blocks, even with all the ICE and PI products bouncing around in price, a caldari fuel block right now is selling for just over 15,000 isk, the same price I was selling them for over a year ago when the PI and ICE product mats were way way cheaper. You know back when you could get raw ICE for 120,000 per block, and tax on PI was almost nothing.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#36 - 2013-10-18 22:15:55 UTC
miner crom wrote:
Great to hear that your buying off the market.

So you agree that mining your own ICE to make Fuel Blocks is a loss in profit.


Now, things I did not consider.

Out of the ICE cubes needed to make one Fuel Block you get twice the Heavy Water and about 480 more pieces of ISO than needed. (Rough figures, math off top of head)

So could you possibly come out cheaper or as cheap as the market ?

I will do the math and have results below.



Uh... Mining your own ice is a totally different profit stream?

You mine the Ice, then 'sell' it to yourself for manufacturing, at Jita prices.

I don't see how you're losing isk? Ice mining may not be particularly profitable, but that has no effect on if you make a profit with the blocks or not.

You're almost certainly going to be needing to sell /some/ ice product to the market, as no ice contains exactly the right mix as fuel blocks need. (because that's not the only use for them)

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

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