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RMT Is Now Legal

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Author
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#41 - 2013-10-18 14:29:41 UTC
The last time I saw a scheme as clever as this it was a pre-teen trying to twist his parents rules against itself to trick them or force them into giving him what he wanted using (supposedly) their own words against them.

Of course, this never works. Smile

The holes in this clever scheme are obvious, but even if they weren't it is a trivial matter for CCP to simply say "no, you are not authorized to do this with OUR property"... which is exactly what the character and the ISK involved is.

I suppose these things happen when people start thinking they are internet lawyers and/or virtual tycoons. Big smileSmileSmile

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#42 - 2013-10-18 14:33:24 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
The last time I saw a scheme as clever as this it was a pre-teen trying to twist his parents rules against itself to trick them or force them into giving him what he wanted using (supposedly) their own words against them.


Thank you for posting that, my 16 year old tries that all the time (and it never works be still she tries, 19 months till graduation, but who's counting...pother thanme).

YAY I'm not alone!
Frying Doom
#43 - 2013-10-18 14:37:35 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
The last time I saw a scheme as clever as this it was a pre-teen trying to twist his parents rules against itself to trick them or force them into giving him what he wanted using (supposedly) their own words against them.

Of course, this never works. Smile

The holes in this clever scheme are obvious, but even if they weren't it is a trivial matter for CCP to simply say "no, you are not authorized to do this with OUR property"... which is exactly what the character and the ISK involved is.

I suppose these things happen when people start thinking they are internet lawyers and/or virtual tycoons. Big smileSmileSmile

The problem is not in CCP saying that. The problem is if CCP says No you may not do that with our property but they can.

And it is not a lawyer thing it is a community thing. It is exactly the same as CCP giving Somer employees hundreds of billions of isk in ships, can they? Yes they can. Will the community get pissed...Well Duh!!

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

DarkDecay
Real money traders
#44 - 2013-10-18 14:45:49 UTC
TigerXtrm wrote:
The key element is that you have to prove the two parties aren't related. If there is any sort of mutual interest to be proven then my guess is that it would be illegal.


Two parties. Just wondering why you think this makes things legal?

Or conversely, why only one party makes it illegal.
Jarod Garamonde
Jolly Codgers
Get Off My Lawn
#45 - 2013-10-18 14:47:29 UTC
Nope.... it's still illegal. CCP is just waiting to drop the full weight of the EULA on this guy when it is most advantageous.

That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...

    [#savethelance]
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#46 - 2013-10-18 14:55:16 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
The last time I saw a scheme as clever as this it was a pre-teen trying to twist his parents rules against itself to trick them or force them into giving him what he wanted using (supposedly) their own words against them.

Of course, this never works. Smile

The holes in this clever scheme are obvious, but even if they weren't it is a trivial matter for CCP to simply say "no, you are not authorized to do this with OUR property"... which is exactly what the character and the ISK involved is.

I suppose these things happen when people start thinking they are internet lawyers and/or virtual tycoons. Big smileSmileSmile

The problem is not in CCP saying that. The problem is if CCP says No you may not do that with our property but they can.

And it is not a lawyer thing it is a community thing. It is exactly the same as CCP giving Somer employees hundreds of billions of isk in ships, can they? Yes they can. Will the community get pissed...Well Duh!!

Of course they will, this community gets pissed every time the wind changes direction.

This community also feels they are qualified to make business decisions for CCP, when they blatantly are not.

We have a tendency to get wrapped up in our own little fantasy world of how we think game companies should operate, and very rarely do they actually have any real world substance or merit.

Most often these issues are the very definition of the phrase "tempest in a tea cup", throwing in just enough pseudo real world parallels to try and give the illusion of substance to their complaints. Claims that event driven ship sponsorship from CCP "will put Somer's competitors out of business" and similar nonsense that might be true in a real world business situation, but have zero relevance in a fictional economy where their activities will have little (if any) real effect on groups running similar activities.

This will have traction on the forums until some clever troll finds another controversy ball to throw in front of the community for them to chase after. You'd think that eventually most of the posters here would stop allowing themselves to be so easily manipulated, but apparently rational thinking and perspective are difficult skills to learn.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Frying Doom
#47 - 2013-10-18 15:00:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Frying Doom
Yes every time the wind changes like Incarna, or giving gold magnates to somer blink or giving hundreds of billions of isk to somer blink or letting gambling sites RMT.

Or my favorite building up our hopes for a year on modular POSs and then telling us via the CSM minutes..Sorry not going to happen but we will get there soon.

You mean like that?

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

Prince Kobol
#48 - 2013-10-18 15:04:01 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Prince Kobol, Frankly you are now just making things up

Now personally I had no ill will towards Somer other than what it was doing giving bonus isk was wrong.

But frankly the more I read about you defense of the undefendable the more pissed towards Somer I am getting.



Of course you have ill feelings towards Somer otherwise you would be posting in everything single about Somer saying how wrong they are and making stuff up as you go along.

Unless now you are now saying the only issue you have is then giving out isk credit in you use there referral scheme in which case talking about making a mountain out of a molehill.

Also it is quite clear what CCP stance is on selling GTC's.

If you are not on the list of CCP Authorised sellers then you can not sell GTC's for RL Money and thus can be banned for it.



Leigh Akiga
Kuhri Innovations
#49 - 2013-10-18 15:08:17 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
yeah maybe ccp'll realise just how ridiculous what they've been allowing somer to do is

probably not though


CCP close down Somer now or the monument gets it.
Frying Doom
#50 - 2013-10-18 15:12:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Frying Doom
Prince Kobol wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Prince Kobol, Frankly you are now just making things up

Now personally I had no ill will towards Somer other than what it was doing giving bonus isk was wrong.

But frankly the more I read about you defense of the undefendable the more pissed towards Somer I am getting.



Of course you have ill feelings towards Somer otherwise you would be posting in everything single about Somer saying how wrong they are and making stuff up as you go along.

Unless now you are now saying the only issue you have is then giving out isk credit in you use there referral scheme in which case talking about making a mountain out of a molehill.

Also it is quite clear what CCP stance is on selling GTC's.

If you are not on the list of CCP Authorised sellers then you can not sell GTC's for RL Money and thus can be banned for it.




As I have said before speak to the GTC wholesalers as they make no mention of being an authorised reseller, they are happy to give anyone thousands of GTC for resale, the authorised bit only comes in on your credit card, if your bank authorises the transfer or not. Nor have I made anything up. Your choosing to ignore facts says more than I ever have.

Oh and RMT is not a molehill, nor should Somer or any site be permitted to conduct them selves in a manner that CCP is not prepared to have the whole community duplicate.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#51 - 2013-10-18 15:12:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Frying Doom wrote:
Yes every time the wind changes like Incarna, or giving gold magnates to somer blink or giving hundreds of billions of isk to somer blink or letting gambling sites RMT.

Or my favorite building up our hopes for a year on modular POSs and then telling us via the CSM minutes..Sorry not going to happen but we will get there soon.

You mean like that?

Yes, exactly like that.

Those are excellent examples of issues that are/were not really understood by the majority of the people furiously posting about them, and given a weight of importance far beyond what any rational person not involved with this community would consider ridiculous.

You "really" don't want me to tell you how stupid each and every one of those examples actually is do you? Seriously, adding a couple of ships with a different paint job to a internet space ship game is a "serious issue"? Big smileBig smileBig smile

In the case of the Gold Magnate, the ship doesn't even exist in anyone's possession... so you can't even make the stretch to say the value to collectors is affected. In fact, the bottom line is most of these issues affect the player base not one whit.

If you have the time to get upset about such meaningless issues, that's fine. I have better things to be concerned about, and if they thought about it a second most folks would realize that they do as well.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Frying Doom
#52 - 2013-10-18 15:17:03 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Yes every time the wind changes like Incarna, or giving gold magnates to somer blink or giving hundreds of billions of isk to somer blink or letting gambling sites RMT.

Or my favorite building up our hopes for a year on modular POSs and then telling us via the CSM minutes..Sorry not going to happen but we will get there soon.

You mean like that?

Yes, exactly like that.

Those are excellent examples of issues that are/were not really understood by the majority of the people furiously posting about them, and given a weight of importance far beyond what any rational person not involved with this community would consider ridiculous.

You "really" don't want me to tell you how stupid each and every one of those examples actually is do you?

So now maybe you can tell me how the Summer of Rage was a "Tempest in a tea cup" and how stupid the rage over what happened was?

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#53 - 2013-10-18 15:17:56 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Prince Kobol, Frankly you are now just making things up

Now personally I had no ill will towards Somer other than what it was doing giving bonus isk was wrong.

But frankly the more I read about you defense of the undefendable the more pissed towards Somer I am getting.



Of course you have ill feelings towards Somer otherwise you would be posting in everything single about Somer saying how wrong they are and making stuff up as you go along.

Unless now you are now saying the only issue you have is then giving out isk credit in you use there referral scheme in which case talking about making a mountain out of a molehill.

Also it is quite clear what CCP stance is on selling GTC's.

If you are not on the list of CCP Authorised sellers then you can not sell GTC's for RL Money and thus can be banned for it.




As I have said before speak to the GTC wholesalers as they make no mention of being an authorised reseller, they are happy to give anyone thousands of GTC for resale, the authorised bit only comes in on your credit card, if your bank authorises the transfer or not. Nor have I made anything up. Your choosing to ignore facts says more than I ever have.

Oh and RMT is not a molehill, nor should Somer or any site be permitted to conduct them selves in a manner that CCP is not prepared to have the whole community duplicate.


CCP can authorize or deny the ability to sell GTC's to whomever they wish, for any reason the choose... and they will base those decisions on information you are not (and will not) be privy to.

That's one reason why it's "their" company, not "your" company. Blink

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#54 - 2013-10-18 15:26:55 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Yes every time the wind changes like Incarna, or giving gold magnates to somer blink or giving hundreds of billions of isk to somer blink or letting gambling sites RMT.

Or my favorite building up our hopes for a year on modular POSs and then telling us via the CSM minutes..Sorry not going to happen but we will get there soon.

You mean like that?

Yes, exactly like that.

Those are excellent examples of issues that are/were not really understood by the majority of the people furiously posting about them, and given a weight of importance far beyond what any rational person not involved with this community would consider ridiculous.

You "really" don't want me to tell you how stupid each and every one of those examples actually is do you?

So now maybe you can tell me how the Summer of Rage was a "Tempest in a tea cup" and how stupid the rage over what happened was?

I figured you would grasp at the one issue in your laundry list you feel actually has some merit... because, well, everyone says so right?

Now that we've asserted that the rest of your issues listed are nonsense, including the one this thread is about, let me point out that I any many other forum posters have pointed out repeatedly that most of the issues people point to as a cause for the "summer of rage" are nonsense.

There were a couple of legitimate concerns brought up during that time, but very few people think clearly enough to recognize what those issues were. Instead they regurgitate the tripe the forum trolls fed them during that time and convince themselves that not only was the information factual, but that it was somehow important. If you ask a dozen different people what the summer of rage was all about you'll get a dozen different answers, most of them completely incorrect.

However, the common herd carries on regardless... forever chasing the next "outrage" that gets dangled in front of their nose. Amusing yet irritating occasionally, like watching preschoolers give their opinion on world politics. Smile

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Frying Doom
#55 - 2013-10-18 15:29:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Frying Doom
Ranger 1 wrote:
CCP can authorize or deny the ability to sell GTC's to whomever they wish, for any reason the choose... and they will base those decisions on information you are not (and will not) be privy to.

That's one reason why it's "their" company, not "your" company. Blink

Funny I was under the impression that the wholesalers were there own businesses and would them selves probably take legal remedies if companies like CCP started dictating who they can and can not sell too. That is why that is their company and not mine or CCPs.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

Frying Doom
#56 - 2013-10-18 15:34:52 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Yes every time the wind changes like Incarna, or giving gold magnates to somer blink or giving hundreds of billions of isk to somer blink or letting gambling sites RMT.

Or my favorite building up our hopes for a year on modular POSs and then telling us via the CSM minutes..Sorry not going to happen but we will get there soon.

You mean like that?

Yes, exactly like that.

Those are excellent examples of issues that are/were not really understood by the majority of the people furiously posting about them, and given a weight of importance far beyond what any rational person not involved with this community would consider ridiculous.

You "really" don't want me to tell you how stupid each and every one of those examples actually is do you?

So now maybe you can tell me how the Summer of Rage was a "Tempest in a tea cup" and how stupid the rage over what happened was?

I figured you would grasp at the one issue in your laundry list you feel actually has some merit... because, well, everyone says so right?

Now that we've asserted that the rest of your issues listed are nonsense, including the one this thread is about, let me point out that I any many other forum posters have pointed out repeatedly that most of the issues people point to as a cause for the "summer of rage" are nonsense.

There were a couple of legitimate concerns brought up during that time, but very few people think clearly enough to recognize what those issues were. Instead they regurgitate the tripe the forum trolls fed them during that time and convince themselves that not only was the information factual, but that it was somehow important. If you ask a dozen different people what the summer of rage was all about you'll get a dozen different answers, most of them completely incorrect.

However, the common herd carries on regardless... forever chasing the next "outrage" that gets dangled in front of their nose. Amusing yet irritating occasionally, like watching preschoolers give their opinion on world politics. Smile

You have asserted nothing other than the fact you cannot back up your own statements

Quote:
Yes, exactly like that.

Those are excellent examples of issues that are/were not really understood by the majority of the people furiously posting about them, and given a weight of importance far beyond what any rational person not involved with this community would consider ridiculous.

You "really" don't want me to tell you how stupid each and every one of those examples actually is do you?

Now as the summer of rage made the main stream media and I did not see any of them calling our reaction ridiculous maybe you would like to explain how you are so much better than the rest of this community, the gaming media and the mainstream media?

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#57 - 2013-10-18 15:39:47 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
CCP can authorize or deny the ability to sell GTC's to whomever they wish, for any reason the choose... and they will base those decisions on information you are not (and will not) be privy to.

That's one reason why it's "their" company, not "your" company. Blink

Funny I was under the impression that the wholesalers were there own businesses and would them selves probably take legal remedies if companies like CCP started dictating who they can and can not sell too. That is why that is their company and not mine or CCPs.

Who approves who can be a wholesaler of GTC? CCP.
Who dictates the terms of the wholesale agreement? CCP.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Frying Doom
#58 - 2013-10-18 15:44:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Frying Doom
Ranger 1 wrote:

Who dictates the terms of the wholesale agreement? CCP.

You don't do business with companies much if you think it is ever that one sided or for that matter in the favor of a small company like CCP.

So I will save you the trouble of ranting as the goods can be purchased by anyone via the wholesalers rules and resold by who the wholesaler chooses to do business with.

and as you are now just ranting and unable to answer how you are better than everyone else as you claim.

I will just class you as another Somer fan boy.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

Nanatoa
#59 - 2013-10-18 15:48:44 UTC
Now that RMT is legal I regret my decision to dump 16 billion into SOMER Blink to get a shot at a non-existing Golden Magnate even more (my refund request is still being ignored btw, that's "trustworthy and reliable" for you).

Assuming I'd give a raffle ticket for every $1 purchase, how many raffle tickets would be fair for 16 billion isk?

"Stay the course, we have done this many times before." - (CCP) Hilmar, June 2011

Frying Doom
#60 - 2013-10-18 15:53:09 UTC
Nanatoa wrote:
Now that RMT is legal I regret my decision to dump 16 billion into SOMER Blink to get a shot at a non-existing Golden Magnate even more (my refund request is still being ignored btw, that's "trustworthy and reliable" for you).

Assuming I'd give a raffle ticket for every $1 purchase, how many raffle tickets would be fair for 16 billion isk?

Given the circumstances I would petition CCP as it was their doing that you gave Somer so much isk and let them sort it out with their trustworthy number 1 gambling site.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!