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No, their maths is voodoo based on reading tea leaves in the bottom of a cup.

do not like.

a) as others have mentioned, 20% is a good figure given that the owner of the pos will feel a hit even if they are able to recover their stolen items before anyone else.

b) there should be no limit per character in order to keep this from being a tool that only the largest alliances will benefit from.

No limit on the number of siphons that can be deployed. You already have two soft limits: material recovery, unit size. The person placing siphons will gain no benefits unless they gather the materials. This means spending time returning to your siphon spots and seeing if anything was gathered. Travel time in a ship with a large enough cargo is a real limiting factor. Unit size is also a real consideration since that will help determine how often you must return to replenish units for deployment. Of course, with organization and coordination these limits can be modified, but that just encourages playing with groups. Given these real limits there is no reason to make an arbitrary hard limits.

Why not have an initialization, adjustment, or hacking time? The siphon only starts to gather materials after 1-4 hours. This provides a longer safe time between checks on a pos, while still having the same punishment level for not checking your pos.

It doesn't. But an interresting idea was that the POS let you know the loss of production when the goo is emptied from the syphon. The syphon could be considered like a POS module by the API but if someone empty it, then the API notify you of the loss of material. It's up to you to infer after that if it's because of a syphon.

how about instead of max per character there is a max per pos?

small pos is max 2 medium 4 large 6?

i'v spent the last two years waiting to get the elusive goons tears!

When these were announced I was beyond excited for them as someone that will:
-Use the **** out of them
- Have to pay a bit more attention for my *own* towers

But, the only way for these to be remotely close to balanced is:
1) Have no way in hell to completely shut down the tower's output. That means knocking that take amount from the single unit down AND adding a percentage based stacking penalty to additional siphoning units. The max you should be able to knock someone's production down is far better at 60-75%, and that's WITH multiple (stacking penalized) siphons.

These are supposed to be about disruption not completely disabling. POSes are already a huge pain and completely getting nothing out of them is pretty much the point any sane person that values being able to sleep will simply say "**** it I'm not doing this ****", but damn right there should be a way to take a dump in someone's passive income if you can't be rolling around with cap fleets on their porch.

60-75% is still a pretty freaking huge amount of disruption. The waste was an alright attempt at balance, just the total amount they take is just obscene. Keep waste so that even if someone gets to it before the person setting the siphon up does they're still out a good chunk.

2) For the love of sleep men, add a ******* notification. Hell it doesn't have to be right when the things go up. It doesn't even have to be after it's pulled one cycle. Something like 3-5 cycles active would be great. Nobody wants to be literally chained to one system or pos without the ability to sleep- Even if they live in that very system! A lot of groups, specifically smaller ones are also HIGHLY timezone limited so they don't have the endless coverage that'd currently be necessary to check every hour.

The little disruptive group could then be ballers and snatch out the output right before a notification would be sent out AND prep an ambush for the pos slave sent to look out for the tower. The pos owner(s) aren't stuck as zombies that have to forego employment and sleep, and the siphoners get to for sure grab some of that hot hot gooeyness if *they themselves are attentive*

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To be clear, I ******* love the idea of siphons but the implementation has to be sane. Leave it like this and all you do is give even more reason for pos managers to hate life. (And I'll still use them, cause who the **** wouldn't use this ridiculously imbalanced **** to grief the people unfortunate enough to require sleep or employment?)

This. I like the concept of being able to disrupt an alliance's income stream (even when it's my income stream to be disrupted). But this should be done by a gang/fleet of people, and the counter should be forming your own gang and shooting it out. Not a conflict between a cloaky hauler alt and a POS manager alt. Not a race of who can log in more often through the working day.

I will summerize for skimmers.


CCP: These could be used for griefing so we should make some changes.

*Makes them only able to be used for griefing if you are huge and organized.....

GG CCP

to be fair the only difference is now the api is broken intentionally