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Dev Blog: No Honor Among Thieves - Siphon Units in Rubicon

First post First post First post
Author
Jessica Danikov
Network Danikov
#621 - 2013-10-18 08:46:17 UTC
Just like the Tobin Tax, it sounds like a good idea, but will have counter-intuitive effects. The siphon unit overall reduces supply, which drives up costs (especially if it outstrips demand). Blocs have the most capacity to absorb and capitalize on such changes, especially if they outsource their moon mining (make it someone elses problem).

Most of the siplhon unit's cost will be reflected in consumer prices of T2- not that it's necessarily a bad thing in itself, I just don't think this is going to affect Blocs and rebalance things as much as people intuit.
Einstein II
Domini Canos
Domini Canes
#622 - 2013-10-18 08:55:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Einstein II
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3752692#post3752692

announcement of a new type of profit at the expense of WH w static null sec
Royaldo
Kongsberg Vaapenfabrikk Amarr branch.
Clever Use of Neutral Toons
#623 - 2013-10-18 08:57:06 UTC
How will this generate any sort of pvp when you have no idea **** is actually happening?
Arrendis
TK Corp
#624 - 2013-10-18 09:04:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Arrendis
Neave LaFontaine wrote:
Anyone else notice the high level of goon tears in this thread?


You know, it never ceases to amaze me that with GSF up over 10,000 people, to say nothing of the rest of the CFC, people see a half-dozen goons pointing out blatantly obvious flaws in mechanics (and/or trolling the people who inevitably crop up to defend anything purely because the goons say it's not a good idea) and decide that's a 'high level of goon tears'.

Really? One of the largest, most active groups in the game, with a history of delving into the mechanics of the game looking for the loopholes and problems CCP refuses to see until GSF goes ahead and rubs someone's nose in it, has multiple people posting in a thread about mechanics - the very same people who post on all of these mechanics threads, no less - and you think that's somehow significant?
Ludi Burek
Exit-Strategy
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#625 - 2013-10-18 09:07:35 UTC
Royaldo wrote:
How will this generate any sort of pvp when you have no idea **** is actually happening?



Ever been roofied? It will be like that Lol
Miner Hottie
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#626 - 2013-10-18 09:13:48 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
Neave LaFontaine wrote:
Anyone else notice the high level of goon tears in this thread?


You know, it never ceases to amaze me that with GSF up over 10,000 people, to say nothing of the rest of the CFC, people see a half-dozen goons pointing out blatantly obvious flaws in mechanics (and/or trolling the people who inevitably crop up to defend anything purely because the goons say it's not a good idea) and decide that's a 'high level of goon tears'.

Really? One of the largest, most active groups in the game, with a history of delving into the mechanics of the game looking for the loopholes and problems CCP refuses to see until GSF goes ahead and rubs someone's nose in it, has multiple people posting in a thread about mechanics - the very same people who post on all of these mechanics threads, no less - and you think that's somehow significant?


Never underestimate the power of confirmation bias from the "elite PVP players who hate goons (which is most of them)" of eve.

It's all about how hot my mining lasers get.

Lord Drakandu
LowSechnaya Shpana
#627 - 2013-10-18 09:18:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Lord Drakandu
To see to cry to the alliances of 0.0 is absolutely delicious.
Speedkermit Damo
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#628 - 2013-10-18 09:39:45 UTC
Good times,

I see no reason why I need to spend a single ISK on a Siphon, when I could just fly around stealing from everyone else's siphons.

Easy life.

Protect me from knowing what I don't need to know. Protect me from even knowing that there are things to know that I don't know. Protect me from knowing that I decided not to know about the things that I decided not to know about. Amen.

Turfrider
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#629 - 2013-10-18 09:40:54 UTC
This is awesome. Good job CCP. About time.

All the people crying about this calling it "horribly unbalanced" lol @ you. Moons are inheriently horribly unbalanced, worried about your SRP? I'm just happy more of you will be forced into the belts to earn a crust so I can kill you :)

Ill be putting 100's of these things up as soon as physically possible, good game.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#630 - 2013-10-18 09:43:25 UTC
Miner Hottie wrote:
Arrendis wrote:
Neave LaFontaine wrote:
Anyone else notice the high level of goon tears in this thread?


You know, it never ceases to amaze me that with GSF up over 10,000 people, to say nothing of the rest of the CFC, people see a half-dozen goons pointing out blatantly obvious flaws in mechanics (and/or trolling the people who inevitably crop up to defend anything purely because the goons say it's not a good idea) and decide that's a 'high level of goon tears'.

Really? One of the largest, most active groups in the game, with a history of delving into the mechanics of the game looking for the loopholes and problems CCP refuses to see until GSF goes ahead and rubs someone's nose in it, has multiple people posting in a thread about mechanics - the very same people who post on all of these mechanics threads, no less - and you think that's somehow significant?


Never underestimate the power of confirmation bias from the "elite PVP players who hate goons (which is most of them)" of eve.


Let me put this bluntly, in terms of Sov war the CFC is the elite of Eve.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#631 - 2013-10-18 09:51:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Gypsio III
Speedkermit Damo wrote:
Good times,

I see no reason why I need to spend a single ISK on a Siphon, when I could just fly around stealing from everyone else's siphons.

Easy life.


I doubt there'll be anything worth stealing. Siphons around worthwhile moons will get killed, siphons at bad moons will just give you 1000 m3 of atmospheric gases or something even less useful. Wooo.

The more I think about this, the more it seems that the real problem is the automatic moon mining itself. While a mining POS does has a role as something worth fighting over and as a location for large battles, the AFK nature is bad, along with the API tools that promote it. So, maybe something like moving moon minerals to mining anomalies and creating a proper nullsec POS-based industry to replace mining POS as strategic targets would be better? Of course, you'd also have to entirely rebalance null industry to give the necessary capacity, and then remove all jump mechanics to stop an entity simply jumping supplies from Jita to bypass an industrial interdiction campaign... so yeah, back to the siphon then!
Kranky Hakaari
Doomheim
#632 - 2013-10-18 09:54:19 UTC
i can see alot of angry goons shitting bricks.
Any thing that gives me the opportunity to stick it to Big boys is welcomed...yeah you goonie
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#633 - 2013-10-18 09:58:28 UTC
Although i like the idea of this siphon unit, this firs iteration is a little underwhelming and i don't like the fact that it is yet another passive activity being added to eve. That said, i'm sure some people will have fun with it. minuscule output won't be worth the time for me personally.

There should be a second version (tech 2 maybe) where the yield it massively increased by players on grid. For example, transferring energy to the t2 siphon could allow you to fill it up in one hour. However, when you deploy the tech 2 version, the POS owner receives a notification.

This would reward players for active participation, increase activity in space and draw fights away from gates.
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#634 - 2013-10-18 10:04:38 UTC
The real question is, where's Harry?

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.

nXus
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#635 - 2013-10-18 10:07:06 UTC
Concerned that the false API tracking thing is going to completely break existing API tools that people rely on. So we'll see how the false reporting works in reality when people are emptying/shuffling silos etc.

Expecting T2 prices to go crazy. If these are spammed that's already 20% supply lost from the game and if it turns people off running the reaction chains then that's additional supply gone from the system. Add market manipulation and it's going to be a pretty crazy ride. Time will tell I guess..

I don't see this affecting large entities that don't base their ship doctrines on t2 ships. Expect T1 and T3 ships to become the norm.
Corvald Tyrska
Valknetra
#636 - 2013-10-18 10:08:49 UTC
Is there anything preventing the POS owner deploying these inside their own POS shield? If you are willing to take a 20% loss on income then you can effectively make your POS completely immune to other people's siphons since they siphon in order of deployment. Login to empty them to the silo once a day and you're all good. Admittedly you take a 20% reduction in capacity but for the more valuable materials that could be well worth the price for not having to deal with these Cool
Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#637 - 2013-10-18 10:12:01 UTC
Corvald Tyrska wrote:
Is there anything preventing the POS owner deploying these inside their own POS shield?


Dev Blog wrote:
Siphon units must be deployed close to a POS, outside of shields to a maximum distance of 50 kilometers from the control tower.


Reading is hard right?
Arrendis
TK Corp
#638 - 2013-10-18 10:19:43 UTC
Turfrider wrote:
This is awesome. Good job CCP. About time.

All the people crying about this calling it "horribly unbalanced" lol @ you. Moons are inheriently horribly unbalanced, worried about your SRP? I'm just happy more of you will be forced into the belts to earn a crust so I can kill you :)

Ill be putting 100's of these things up as soon as physically possible, good game.


So you'll be spending billions on things that will just get blown up? If that's how PL wants to waste their money, man, go for it. I think we all know whose moons you'll be looking at. Who knows, maybe we'll get bounties for blowing them up.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#639 - 2013-10-18 10:20:40 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Let me put this bluntly, in terms of Sov war the CFC is the elite of Eve.


Aww... Don't say that, you'll upset N3 and PL.
Atlantis Fuanan
Wormhole Research Inc.
#640 - 2013-10-18 10:21:49 UTC
Good job on the siphon unit, i just love the way it will harm the "big guys". But I don't see why the owner should be abel to see WHO placed it. I'd rather leave it anonymous. Why? For the first, a thief won't let a note back with his name on it. For the second, if done by a small corp, "bug guys" could go mad and throw blobs at them, while it encourages PVP, this can't be called PVP in the end (small vs big :(). AND for the third, it could also be done by some own corp buddies and cause some conspiracy. A big part of EVE is trust right?

[u]Things that would make EVE better:[/u] NRDS - Remove Local - Balance Cloak - Sov-Mechanic Changes - Less QQ