EVE General Discussion

I played WoW from vanilla to the end of lich king and its near impossible to compare the two games but there are some things I find odd between the two.

PvP wise EvE fights are largely decided before they even start where in WoW it comes down to your mechanical ability on the keyboard. For example there is no EvE equivalent to getting out of a druids cyclone to catch them in the middle of a 1 sec cast with a counterspell. Another thing that not just WoW has but nearly all PvP games with a Rogue/Assassin/Stalker class. They tend to show up out of no where and ruin your day where in EvE people scream bloody murder at the very mention of removing local showing pilots in the area. My personal reason for leaving WoW was that blizzard started killing off world pvp. When Burning Crusade first launched the areas in front of the new dungeons were warzones littered with dead bodies now we have magical "teleport to dungeon" to avoid world PvP.

I really dont like the attitude around here that a themepark game is for low intelligence people. I merely equate it to reading a book once you finish reading it most of the vaule is lost but that doesnt mean the journey to the end was worthless. Playing EvE is more like playing with legos theres not much point to it but youre only limited by your own creativity and there really is no end.

The MMO however I loved the most was City of Villians and that was nearly 100% PvE but the huge ammount of possible combinations of power sets kept me playing that from launch til it was untimely shut down by ncsoft. I also must give a nod to the CoH/CoV community I've never in playing any games seen a more helpful friendly set of players. Hell many times in Warburg a free for all PvP zone I've seen people standing in the open talking about builds and the such.

Edit: One other thing for WoW I've never seen another game with as big an open world as WoW with no load screens. Just running around exploring or traveling seeing new little things was fun but that awesomeness is being killed of by blizzard with teleports to everywhere and super fast flying mounts.

So is eve

Really? Since when?

Strange things:

1) Allegedly Eve players are smarter than WoW players, yet, quite few of them seem to have played WoW at some point.
2) This learning curve.....for most eve players, it consists of nothing overly complex...missions are hardly rocket science, nor is mining or industry, hell, even trading isn't complicated if you understand buy low, sell high.
3) This scary nasty world....Eve might have people who want to blow you up on every single undock point and gate (or so I heard), but I will take that over the nastiness you run into in WoW PUGs any day of the week.


What many struggle with in eve is the lack of a clearly defined path (the lack of theme park, if you will). Very few people know precisely what they want to do when they start, and it usually takes a few false starts and "Oh god, I am never doing that again" before you find something (usually by accident) that keeps you interested for the next X years.

Eve PvP can be extremely skilled and technical, but, it can also be as simple as following instructions from your FC about which guy on the overview to target and hit F1 for. Eve missioning/incursions can be min/maxed, timed to slice off every second that is unnecessary, or, it can be as simple as "grab standard L4 fit from E-Uni, warp in, shoot red things".

Eve is not "tougher" or "more difficult" unless you want it to be. The depth can be mindblowing, but, there is an illusion that most players are doing market manipulation or theorycrafting at a high level, whereas, as with any game, these are a minority.

For many of us, 3rd party tools calculate profits/margins, 3rd party sites tell us what tank to fit, a voice on comms tells us who to shoot at, inspiration for fits comes via those who have taken the time to mathsify every last detail......

Finally, people overlook specialisation in eve. There is a limit to how many SP you can have in drones. Once you have those, your drone capabilities are precisely the same as any other player with drones maxed.

Min-maxers in any aspect of eve, the market, pvp, industry, pve are indeed smart...but, a chunk of them play games that are considered to have a less smart population...elitism is a thing, huh?


Finally, take a look at GD and tell me that Eve has a more mature player base

Looking at that fair enough the subs at this time last year were about the same amount. So Tranquility has failed to grow, while Serenity has taken a nose dive.

And considering how large that playerbase is, that is an achievement.

WoW is starting to show its age a little, for sure. I stopped playing in January of this year, but my spouse still plays from time to time, so I keep up with what's going on. My take on the rapid loss of subs this year: the developers wanted to herds people away from farming dungeon content endlessly for welfare epics, and then sitting around in the cities bored, as happened in the previous two expansions. How did they do this? By putting in dailies. Lots of dailies. Dailies tied to faction reputation and achievements, with really nice gear rewards available on top of that. These rewards and achievements weren't mandatory, but much of the WoW playerbase are either completist types who feel they need to get all the things, or raiding min/maxers who feel like they must get all the things.

The result? Mass frustration and burnout. There was much venting and raging about this on the official WoW forums in fact. It's the reason I quit. I was in the completist category. I enjoyed the dailies at first, but I found myself overwhelmed and exhausted. I left. I may go back someday; I love Blizzard's games. They make mistakes, but their games are just flat-out incredible.

And I have to admit it -- sometimes I miss being able to hop on the back of a drake and soar over Northrend.

One more thing. People on the outside laugh at the "childishness" of the "pandas" in the last expansion without understanding that the Pandaren have been in the game since its RTS days and that their storyline is in fact rather depressing and violent. Anyway, I have to laugh at the elitist harumphing on this one, it reads like elderly Victorian ladies at a garden party gossiping about someone else's bad manners.

There is no trouble in GD, only more fun.

Shame on you for trying to throw out numbers to a community that is generally unaware of the happenings in wow.

Wow is down to 7.7 mil at last count from It's peak of 10 million with the launch of MoP expansion. And down from an all time high of 12 million in 2010..

And this was of last count every wow player knows its down from even then. In fact since you want to toss numbers around they haven't been this low since the release of the game they had over 8 mil before bc hit.

So instead of trying to throw around arbitrary numbers let's look at trending. Wow is on a huge downward spiral while EVE has hit its all time high just this year. Now stop being a wow fanboy and get off these forums.

Source. http://www.powerwordgold.net/2013/07/world-of-warcraft-subscribers-2005-2013.html?m=1

And sadly I still play due to rl friends and my wife I have seen this decline and it's not on the rise anytime soon

Like everyone else who actually has the knowledge to "compare" the two games, the answer is "stop comparing apples to oranges"

For me, WoW was a ton of fun - probably more fun than EVE. I was part of a strong raiding guild, and our core group was rocking 25 man raids up until I left at the end of Cata (they're still raiding so far as I know). The endgame raiding scene was continually getting better, not worse; comparing the mechanics in place in Cata with those in TBC, there is now a lot more personal responsibility in raid fights versus anything like old school raids. WoW keep setting the bar higher (and ensuring that people not only needed situational awareness, but also a decent amount of addons and macros). It was fun knowing that three nights a week, for three hours, the same group of people would be getting together to dissect, learn, and master new content. A lot like playing any team sport, without having to leave the house. Downside, of course, was that if you had 23 people ready to play instead of 25, you weren't going to be able to raid, and you needed to do what you could to improve your gear in your own time to make sure you weren't holding everyone else back.

EVE is . . . EVE. I stopped playing WoW largely because I couldn't even commit to 9 hours/week anymore, and didn't want to play if I couldn't raid. So I switched to EVE (and EVE was certainly a swtich): not being able to log on and instantly find fights (in fact, sometimes roaming for over an hour before even finding a fight) was frustrating at first. ****** UI was frustrating at first. The fact that there is very little advantage to having "twitch" skills was frustrating at first (I hear inty pilots talk about their piloting skill and just kinda grin and shake my head). So, kind of a ****** game.

But losing your ship in EVE means a lot more than a graveyard run, and the backgrounds are fantastic for any hardcore sci-fi nerd. It makes the "PvP" have a different flavor, even if on the whole it's kind of bland. A small gang v. small gang on a lowsec gate is, often times, going to have a predetermined conclusion, but your heart races a little faster when that enemy covops provides a warpin on your kiting gang than when a rogue uncloaks in an arena, so while EVE PvP is somewhat lacking, it makes up for it in being a little more meaningful. And while it's not always there on demand, setting up/staging fights (including the decision of whether to fly Logi/EWAR/DD, how to tank, am I kiting or brawling, should I switch to another ship because our current fleet comp needs it, etc) is always interesting.

If I had to write a TL:DR, I'd say that playing WoW is more like participating in an event, and EVE is more like a hobby. Best thing about EVE is the devs are very communicative and the game is on a slow-but-steady trend of getting richer.

Actual humans who play EVE is probably around 200k. The fact that WoW can basically shrug off the loss of 10 times the total level of total EVE players says a lot about the health of WoW.

Niche games like EVE are about narrow focus, but also about milking the hell out of that niche. EVE milks away by having a monthly sub cost that ranges from $30-$60/mo. (one or more alt accounts) and by sale of PLEX. SWTOR does it with their godawful Cartel Packs, drubbing some whales for hundreds of dollars a month in addition to relatively pointless subscriptions.

WoW's not a niche, it's broad based, and makes up for it with a staggering amount of subscriptions and lots of on-the-side microtransactions. And that staggering amount of subscriptions will have to hit (and stay below) 5 million before anyone chould really raise an eyebrow about the health of the game.