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CSM; Please address the ability of Tech 3 Logistics Subsystem

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Jaiimez Skor
The Infamous.
#1 - 2013-10-17 14:35:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Jaiimez Skor
As it is well known in eve, Tech 3 Logistics is generally a pretty terrible idea outside of very very few specialized situations, although it offers absolutely amazing rep power, the very very limited range that it provides just makes it a complete waste of time to use for the majority of New Eden. What I am doing is calling upon the CSM to bring this issue to the attention of CCP and ask them to review the bonuses of the subsystem.

The very limited range is currently weak for many reasons such as, any doctrine using Tech 3 Logistics cannot orbit any further than 2500m from the anchor without risking falling out of range of the logistics ships, and on top of that, commonly the ship that has been targeted by the enemy fleet will find itself webbed, and will very quickly fall out of range of the Logistics Tech 3's.

This could be simply fixed by giving the subsystem a bonus to the range of reps, giving it the range of a T2 Logistics Ship or even T1 Logistics Ship isn't needed, but a slight bonus say 300% (40% bonus per level of Defensive Subsystem) would make them usable, it would enable them to keep in range of targeted ships that are being webbed for a reasonable amount of time while still forcing the Tech 3 logistics to operate closer to the fleet and unable to kite like their T2 and T1 counterparts, leaving them still highly vulnerable as they'll often be in the optimal engagement range of the enemy.

To give an example, on a Logistics Tengu, the current range with a "Pithum C-Type Medium Remote Shield Booster" (They're 4 million isk each, why wouldn't you use them on a Tech 3) is 6.8km, with a 300% range increase it still only gets 20.4km and if you fit Larges on your logistics Tengu if goes from 8.4km max range to having a rep range of 25.2km, giving it enough range to allow it to be useful, but short enough that it doesn't remove the need for T2 Logistics, or overshadow them.
FightingMoose
Chroma Corp
#2 - 2013-10-17 16:43:16 UTC
I've never seen T3 logi seriously considered in most fleets, whereas I have seen T1 and T2 logi used. Seems like it makes sense to buff it. +1

Proud owner of an Ibis.
Ravan Hekki
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3 - 2013-10-18 06:29:54 UTC
You have seen what SC are flying atm right?
Jaiimez Skor
The Infamous.
#4 - 2013-10-18 09:48:28 UTC
Ravan Hekki wrote:
You have seen what SC are flying atm right?


...and to what success, I haven't seen any stories of them using it in a large scale engagement to any success or to any kind of effect that proves they are usable in general PvP in EvE, as I said they "a pretty terrible idea outside of very very few specialized situations" maybe they have found a situation in which they do work, however as I said before, I haven't heard of them using it to a level that shows they can be used generally in EvE, I personally would like to see them be able to used more commonly.
mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5 - 2013-10-18 19:07:44 UTC
The T3 logistics subsystem is hardly the only bad (or overly good) subsystem out there. Quite frankly, they're almost all either really good or really bad, and when T3 cruisers come up on the rebalancing agenda, CCP will have our full support in addressing them.

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
Jaiimez Skor
The Infamous.
#6 - 2013-10-18 20:38:39 UTC
mynnna wrote:
The T3 logistics subsystem is hardly the only bad (or overly good) subsystem out there. Quite frankly, they're almost all either really good or really bad, and when T3 cruisers come up on the rebalancing agenda, CCP will have our full support in addressing them.


Yes, I figured we wouldn't see any actual change until the Tech 3 Balancing time comes, but I just would like to make sure this issue gets made aware of when that time comes, and I am not sure I entirely agree with you, I can often thing of situations in which certain other subsystems do work for a given task, it's just the logistics subsystem that is the one that is really horrible at the task it is given. That being said i'm sure there probably is 1 or 2 others, but none that come to my head as clearly as the logistics subsystem.

On a side note, it would be really nice to see the electronics subsystems be given a second racial ewar bonus, e.g. amarr, Tracking Disruption, Gallente, Sensor Dampening and Minmatar, Target Painting (I'm not sure what i'd consider a secondary e-war method for Caldari is).
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#7 - 2013-10-21 20:47:33 UTC
Problem: Range-bonused logistics subsystem on a ship with a T3's buffer.

I mean they're obviously underpowered right now and need some fixing but I can understand CCP not wanting to jump in there and start buffing them since they wouldn't be nearly as fragile as conventional T1 and T2 repping platforms.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#8 - 2013-10-22 08:30:13 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
Problem: Range-bonused logistics subsystem on a ship with a T3's buffer.

I mean they're obviously underpowered right now and need some fixing but I can understand CCP not wanting to jump in there and start buffing them since they wouldn't be nearly as fragile as conventional T1 and T2 repping platforms.


I'm happy with rep subsystems not having a range bonus. A much better solution is to give remote reps a sensible range in the first place (and reducing the logi rep range bonus accordingly)

When a module needs gigantic bonuses to actually be used then it's time to look at the module itself, not extend the range of bonused ships (see also: Torps)

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Chitsa Jason
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#9 - 2013-10-28 22:15:07 UTC
When CCP is going to work on T3 re-balance I am definitely going to suggest this change among many other. Usable T3 logi is one of the things I want to see in game.

Burn the land and boil the sea You can't take the sky from me
W0wbagger
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#10 - 2013-11-03 19:27:25 UTC  |  Edited by: W0wbagger
T3 logi is fine - we use it extensively, both armour and shield in gangs up to about 50ppl.
What you lose in range you gain in blops ability, rep amount, sensor strength, neut resistance (lol 200cap/s) tank and "surprise factor"
We also use it in incursions to run the mom site with 4 logi and 30 guys.
And Jaiimez Skor, whilst ours and PLs idea of what a significant engagement is might differ, it worked pretty well when we were 3-1 outnumbered vs you guys here
http://shadowcartel.com/kb/?a=kill_related&kll_id=56252
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztoIa--mlQg
(our only losses were to desync when we jumped after we couldnt break the multiple triage on grid any more)
Happy to dig up a load more BRs where we've used t3 logi effectively over the last 3 years - it's great - just a bit expensive maybe but you gain a lot from the bling.
EDIT: It's also fine in blops because everyone appears in range anyway
EDIT: All of these BRs are with 4 logi
Chandaris
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#11 - 2013-11-03 19:37:17 UTC
confirming i won eve one day in a t3 logistics gang under w0wbagger's command. who needs rep range anyway?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6rxabCtfOs

(soundtrack is a bit nsfw :)
Hitman 001
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#12 - 2013-11-03 19:40:29 UTC
was looking for that vid aswell lol:)