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PvP - Apparently I suck, halp?

Author
Dharvon Vharok
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2013-10-17 21:39:12 UTC
So I've been playing for about 3 weeks, and I've managed to do nothing aside from wander aimlessly and die when I finally manage to find a fight.

I typically fly around in an Incursus, with:

3x Light Neutron T2 - Void Ammo

1MN Afterburner
Scram
Cap Booster

Adaptive Nano
2x Small Armor Rep
(Or 1x Small Armor, 1x Small Ancillary)
1x Damage Control


Now all of my PvP experience, aside from following a friend of mine who would scout out explorers and warp-in on his cloak ship, have ended with total defeat. Most of the time I can't even find a fight, but when I do it's from d-scanning military beacons and such.

I can't even get in range of anyone, and every target I get is a complete no-contest defeat it seems like. So aside from joining a massive zerg and simply mashing F1 (which is the most bullshit, non-entertaining PvP I've ever heard of), what the hell should I be doing as a new player that wont simply end in me terminating my subscription out of boredom?
Winchester Steele
#2 - 2013-10-17 21:47:31 UTC
1. Join RvB or a good active faction warfare corp.

2. Fleet up and learn as much as you can from your fc and more experienced corp mates.

3. ??????????

4. Profit.

...

destiny2
Decaying Rocky Odious Non Evil Stupid Inane Nobody
Sandbaggers United
#3 - 2013-10-17 21:49:14 UTC
Dharvon Vharok wrote:
So I've been playing for about 3 weeks, and I've managed to do nothing aside from wander aimlessly and die when I finally manage to find a fight.

I typically fly around in an Incursus, with:

3x Light Neutron T2 - Void Ammo

1MN Afterburner
Scram
Cap Booster

Adaptive Nano
2x Small Armor Rep
(Or 1x Small Armor, 1x Small Ancillary)
1x Damage Control


Now all of my PvP experience, aside from following a friend of mine who would scout out explorers and warp-in on his cloak ship, have ended with total defeat. Most of the time I can't even find a fight, but when I do it's from d-scanning military beacons and such.

I can't even get in range of anyone, and every target I get is a complete no-contest defeat it seems like. So aside from joining a massive zerg and simply mashing F1 (which is the most bullshit, non-entertaining PvP I've ever heard of), what the hell should I be doing as a new player that wont simply end in me terminating my subscription out of boredom?


run missions go mining, train for a dessy, and go suicide ganking. of mining barges, seems to attract new players alot.

or simply go join Red Vrs Blue, they do alot of fighting up in highsec, in mostly frigates.
Winchester Steele
#4 - 2013-10-17 21:54:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Winchester Steele
destiny2 wrote:
Dharvon Vharok wrote:
So I've been playing for about 3 weeks, and I've managed to do nothing aside from wander aimlessly and die when I finally manage to find a fight.

I typically fly around in an Incursus, with:

3x Light Neutron T2 - Void Ammo

1MN Afterburner
Scram
Cap Booster

Adaptive Nano
2x Small Armor Rep
(Or 1x Small Armor, 1x Small Ancillary)
1x Damage Control


Now all of my PvP experience, aside from following a friend of mine who would scout out explorers and warp-in on his cloak ship, have ended with total defeat. Most of the time I can't even find a fight, but when I do it's from d-scanning military beacons and such.

I can't even get in range of anyone, and every target I get is a complete no-contest defeat it seems like. So aside from joining a massive zerg and simply mashing F1 (which is the most bullshit, non-entertaining PvP I've ever heard of), what the hell should I be doing as a new player that wont simply end in me terminating my subscription out of boredom?


run missions go mining, train for a dessy, and go suicide ganking. of mining barges, seems to attract new players alot.

or simply go join Red Vrs Blue, they do alot of fighting up in highsec, in mostly frigates.



Rvb isnt "mostly frigates". Just FYI. More cruiser than anything else these days I find. Lots of small-gang, solo, and big fleet opportunities for a new player though.

Edit: also, telling a new player to go mine should be a bannable offence. Its tantamount to telling him to unsub and should fall under the Rookie Harrassment policy. Don't ever mine!

...

atpc
Lost in Space Inc.
#5 - 2013-10-17 22:02:46 UTC
Learning to pvp as a new player is pretty hard since you need to know what you're fighting. My suggestion would be ask around in corporation or even local chat and learn what the most typical fits are for ships. Then you can get a rough idea of what you're fighting and how to engage.
Fa Xian
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2013-10-17 22:09:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Fa Xian
Dharvon Vharok wrote:
So I've been playing for about 3 weeks...


There's no way you've been playing 3 weeks and are flying an Incursus in PVP with t2 weapons. So is this a stealth complaint about PVP sucking or something? It's obvious from your lingo and fit and attitude you are not that new to the game; if you are, you've already got lots of sources that have helped you get this far.

Generally, I don't know much about PVP, but I know how to look at what happened when I lose and understand what went wrong. If you are getting killed before you can lock or close with opponents, that's a good sign you need to be faster and choose targets better.

Are you getting killed on a gate? Or out in space? Are you attacking single enemy pilots or groups? If singles, are they in a much larger ship than you are? How many have you really lost? Losing a few dozen frigates doesn't seem unreasonable to me. Are you in low, null, or high sec?

PVP in EVE is quite hard in general. The most valuable skill you can cultivate is looking at how you got killed and asking yourself what you can do to have it turn out differently. Ship too fragile? More tank - speed, shield, or armor. Ship too slow? Microwarp drive and nano fit. Ship too little DPS? Bigger, harder hitting ship like a cruiser.

But generally speaking, you will lose sometimes and the fundamental principle is to bring more people than the other guy does; fights are only "fair" when the aggressor failed to execute properly.

And find and bring friends. Nothing tips the scales in your favor like a bigger fleet.
Livonia Velorea
The Fiendish Pixies
#7 - 2013-10-17 22:09:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Livonia Velorea
If you're going at it solo in a blaster frigate you need to win the range dictation. You have to be able to get into range with your very short range guns before you can even apply any damage. I would recommend fitting a web to help you.

Edit: Better yet get a kiting frigate. Low skill point characters have a massive disadvantage trying to brawl 1v1. That or pvp in a small group ect.

I pew you too! <3

Fa Xian
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2013-10-17 22:12:18 UTC
Livonia Velorea wrote:
If you're going at it solo in a blaster frigate you need to win the range dictation. You have to be able to get into range with your very short range guns before you can even apply any damage. I would recommend fitting a web to help you.


This is good advice but a web only works if you can target them and get close - it doesn't get you close, it keeps you close when there. Microwarp drive instead of afterburner to get there faster.
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#9 - 2013-10-17 22:19:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Kahega Amielden
A blaster incursus is really good at brawling point blank and really bad at anything else. To win fights you need to get in peoples' faces. Given that you do not have a web, because you opted for the dual-rep fit, you don't have much hope of ever getting into anyone's face who doesn't explicitly let you.


Furthermore, you don't have any ammo type but Void, which carries a tracking penalty. That means that not only can people kite you, ships can break your tracking simply by orbiting. CN/FN antimatter should be your general purpose ammo, swapping to void if you're sure that tracking them isn't going to be a huge problem. Also, you should definitely have Null, so that you can hit people trying to kite you.
Seven Koskanaiken
Shadow Legions.
#10 - 2013-10-17 22:24:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Seven Koskanaiken
Everyone sucks at 3 weeks Lol

pvp is about a combination of 1) applying your damage while 2) nullifying damage done to you.

combining these two factors mostly falls into several catagories

- BRAWLING
both damage is equal but your tank > their tank
both tank is equal but your gank > their gank
your gank+tank > their tank+gank

- KITING
your speed > their speed
your gun range > their gun range (eg, you have rails, they have blasters)

- EWAR
nullify their damage (tracking disrupt, ecm, sensor damp)
apply your damage/increase your gank (target paint)
decrease their tank (cap out active tanks)

- SIGRAD / UNDER THE GUNS
nullify damage = you're too small to hit



-psychological/sun tzu stuff

always fight on your terms
if you can't tell who the sucker in a fight is, the sucker is you
pick your fights
each fight situation is a problem, every problem has parameters(initial range, distance, numbers, game mechanics) think about using your ship and fitting for solving problems not "winning fights"
get info on your targets, view ship to see their guns, view their killboard losses to see likely fittings, view character age etc.
everything is a tradeoff, maximising one aspect of a fit sarifices all others to be great at one, balancing all aspects of a fit means you won't be great at any of them

-getting people to fight you;

make the other person believe they will win (use unusual fit, make other person believe you have a cookie cutter fit)
wait for the the other person to make a mistake
smack talk the person into going on tilt and fighting when they shouldn't
trap the person/split gangs using gate mechanics
bait the person with a procurer or whatever


from experience winning pvp is 90% about waiting for the other person to make a mistake, and losing pvp is 90% about you making a stupid mistake

there's prob a ton of stuff i forget since i gave up solo. you will be roaming three hours you find a fight that lasts 30 second. but the rush is worth it. eventually you realise you are just a crack addict. now i lay back and press f1 for an easy relaxing life.
Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#11 - 2013-10-17 22:25:24 UTC
Lose 1000 ships in PvP, then you will learn
Zimmy Zeta
Perkone
Caldari State
#12 - 2013-10-17 22:28:58 UTC
Frankly, I think it is easier for a beginner to learn pvp in a cruiser than in a frigate.
Cruisers are much more forgiving and leave you more margin for errors, in a frigate most errors may be fatal and you may die within seconds. Even though frigates are cheap, dying too quickly is not very motivating for newbies.
Try a Vexor first, then switch to Thorax , once you have gathered more general pvp experience, try yourself at frigates.

just my 2 cents.

Oh, and Atron > Incursus, but maybe that's just my personal taste.

I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it. Yes, I do feel bad about it.

Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2013-10-17 22:33:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
1. Find a good PVP corp that will help you learn like RvB. They love newbies and are always willing to help. Then again, so do I and my associates. Anyway, find a corp that will teach you how to adjust and set up your overview for PVP efficiency, how to fit for different roles on various ships, and how best to organise your skill training, amongst other things, and you'll go far.

2. Pick fights with anything and everything. The more you fight, the more you learn. Knowing what ships are capable of is included in that learning process, and you will learn very quickly just fighting them, regardless of what you're in. I saw a Rifter challenge a Megathron in Dodixie once. The fight was short, and the Rifter pilot lost, but he was all smiles in local and undocked in another one five minutes later and won his next duel with an Omen. PvP is more about attitude than anything else - always expect to lose your ship on every fight. Of course, 1v1 isn't the only kind of PVP around, and eventually you'll probably want or need to learn how to work with fleets and stuff. Again, we're back to joining a good PVP corp.

3. Never be afraid to ask for help. Be cautious, however, of those who offer it, and never agree to handing over money or assets in exchange for that assistance unless YOU consider it a fair exchange. Do not agree to hand over any 'holding deposits' to join a corp, especially if that corp is Goonswarm.

(NB: This is not Goonhate, I like the Goons, but admit it... that had to be said)

4. The most important thing is to ignore anyone that tells you not to fly anything you cannot afford to lose. You can always make more isk to buy more ships. More importantly, don't fly anything you're not PREPARED to lose. In fact, don't even fit it. Again, though, it always comes back to attitude. The right attitude and lots of practice will get you further than any amount of advice.

EDIT: Also, for the record, you will learn more from losing fights than you will from winning them. Winning a fight means you've already learned enough to win that fight. Losing gives you something to directly learn from.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Baggo Hammers
#14 - 2013-10-17 22:50:04 UTC
Do some missions to get used to your ship.

If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there.

Karak Terrel
Foundation for CODE and THE NEW ORDER
#15 - 2013-10-17 23:04:53 UTC
Baggo Hammers wrote:
Do some missions to get used to your ship.

I liked your post so I can unlike it