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Blobs Online

Author
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#21 - 2013-10-16 19:08:50 UTC
Batelle wrote:
Jaangel wrote:
Batelle wrote:
the warp speed changes should be a massive boost for hit and run tactics and roaming gangs.

Also, what you've said has been said about every patch for about the last 7 years. Its really old and tired.


Urm how is it a boost? when you will just be out run by a cepter tackled and blobbed i dont think you thought that response through very well did you?




The roaming gangs would be a hell of a lot faster and able to cross large swaths of 0.0 faster. Their ability to find and catch things would be much higher, targets would have less time to respond to hostiles in local or intel channels. Once the roamers have poked the nest and decide to back off, they can do so quicker. If the defense fleet does send a few interceptors, they wouldn't be much more than free kills for the road, unless of course the entire defense fleet is in ceptors.


You know whats faster than these new ceptors and such?

My Jump Bridges.
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#22 - 2013-10-16 19:14:20 UTC
the thing that gives blobs a bad name is people putting combat ships in them.

forums.  serious business.

Aiwha
Infinite Point
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#23 - 2013-10-16 21:09:59 UTC
Anything you can do with 10 people you can do 10 times better with 100 people.

Sanity is fun leaving the body.

destiny2
Decaying Rocky Odious Non Evil Stupid Inane Nobody
Sandbaggers United
#24 - 2013-10-16 21:32:03 UTC
Johnny Marzetti wrote:
OP, you're kidding, right? Small gangs of interceptors are going to make the stars run red with blood.



or make alot more goon capitals tackled
Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#25 - 2013-10-16 21:36:43 UTC
Takari wrote:
They're working on on-grid boosters.

Even still what would you have CCP do to help small-gang PVP that would not also help the blob on a larger scale?

Perhaps some concrete ideas rather than nebulous "Make it better" would help things out?

EVE history already has examples of how it can work. It used to work before it was changed. So it's not like trying to guess "what might be," just remember "how it was"

For small gang warfare to be successful, there are 2 major ship balance factors:
1) Ability to make very fast ships. EVE had that during the "nano" era. Very fast ship benefit small gangs more than large ones, because of the dynamics of fast ship combat, it is easier to separate large blobs into smaller, more managable fighting units. It also increases chance of smaller fighting unit to get away from large blob, unless that blob splits into small fast units itself. Either way, nanos benefited small engagements more than large ones

2) lower TTK (time to kill) - this benefits smaller engagements in several ways. One way is that ships can fight each other and finish the fight before their friends arrive. This reduces the blob escalation. The longer it takes to kill a ship, the more people are needed to kill it effectively. Many small scale engagements happen as "hit and run" tactics, so fast kill is essential for success.
EVE actually when thru this stage since its release up to about 2005, after all ships received 50% boost in hp, and before major stacking nerf. Throughout later years, the defensive ship capabilities have been increasing at faster rate than offensive ones

Besides ship balance factors, there's also the motivation factors - opportunities/objectives of small scale fights vs large scale fights. EVE went thru several stages in that respect. Initially, before all the POS stuff, there was really no special motivation for blobbing. Pretty much all fights were small scale. But things always moved gradually toward undermining small scale fights and shifting focus on larger fights. The main contributing factors are"
1) POS mechanics - they are designed specifically to be immune to small scale fighting and only support large scale fighting
2) cap ships - again, same as POS stuff, these ships are designed for the blob
3) jump bridges - they work to make it easier for alliances to move large forces around quickly and give them much easier time countering any small scale enemy force. Since most small scale combat happens around the star gates, jump bridges further discourage them by reducing stargate traffic. These days, roaming in 0.0 looking for fights is much more boring experience than it was earlier in game. And the chance of encountering a large blob is much greater.

EVE also used to have much more low sec systems, that were later changed to high sec. This serves to push PvP out toward 0.0, where blobs are heavily encouraged.

It would be fair to say that EVE did encourage small PvP with introduction of Wormholes. However, it remains as niche PvP, a small fraction of the game.

The point is, EVE already went thru stage of small PvP and CCP made conscious decision to change the game to discourage it. They probably believe that encouraging blobs helps build better teamwork and stronger community, I dunno
Random Majere
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2013-10-16 22:49:56 UTC
Blobs are so cool!! That 2000 vs 2000 fight we had in 6VDT a few months ago was such a great experience!! With max TiDi, I could contemplate ALL 4000 ships (barely moving) on the same grid. The 20-30 minutes it took myself and my fleet mates to lock each ship and blow it up was so exciting and fun. When I look at the 9 kill mails I had during that 5 hour fight, I am proud to see the average 1.05% damage I made on each kill. WOW!!! Just remembering that day gets me all pumped up! We lost but....I WAS THERE!!! Straight

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#27 - 2013-10-17 00:26:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaarous Aldurald
Quote:
Links changes make it harder to compete.
The soon to be changes to cepters make it harder to evade blobs in anything other than a cepter.


Wow, crying about links? Seriously?

Putting aside the fact that you managed to accomplish the incredible feat of thinking the interceptor and warp speed changes are bad for small groups...

Links are very literally the deathblow to solo and small group gameplay. Links create a situation wherein they grant such a strong benefit that unless you get your own boosts they can only be overcome with superiority of numbers. Links (and by that I mean OGBs) are one of the very reasons blobbing exists in the first place.

They didn't go far enough, honestly. Off grid boosting needs to die in a fire, so if people want to boost their fleet they actually have to put their ship at risk on grid to do it. That's what those enormous tanks are for on Command Ships anyway.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Batelle
Filthy Peasants
#28 - 2013-10-17 05:17:17 UTC
Ephemeron wrote:

The point is, EVE already went thru stage of small PvP and CCP made conscious decision to change the game to discourage it. They probably believe that encouraging blobs helps build better teamwork and stronger community, I dunno


CCP gets rid of 6km/s typhoons, 8 heatsink armageddons and you take it as evidence that they don't like small gang pvp? I don't buy it. Yes CCP has been buffing defensive capabilities faster, but they've absolutely done it with an eye to active tanking capabilities, rather than in raw EHP. Blobs don't benefit from improved active tanks.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.

Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#29 - 2013-10-17 05:56:48 UTC
Batelle wrote:
Ephemeron wrote:

The point is, EVE already went thru stage of small PvP and CCP made conscious decision to change the game to discourage it. They probably believe that encouraging blobs helps build better teamwork and stronger community, I dunno


CCP gets rid of 6km/s typhoons, 8 heatsink armageddons and you take it as evidence that they don't like small gang pvp? I don't buy it. Yes CCP has been buffing defensive capabilities faster, but they've absolutely done it with an eye to active tanking capabilities, rather than in raw EHP. Blobs don't benefit from improved active tanks.

Those things weren't bad for small scale PvP

sure 6 km/s phoon was fast, but there was 90% web, and tackler frigs could reach 20 km/s
8 heat sink geddons were powerful, but glass cannons

none of these things are inherently bad, just a different style of gameplay, one that is more friendly to small scale fights than current state of affairs.

Active tanking is only viable when you use officer mods, with only t2, passive/buffer wins every time. Not to forget that logistics cruisers work better with passive/buffers
Alduin666 Shikkoken
Doomheim
#30 - 2013-10-17 06:11:35 UTC
Make stuff happen. I got bored the other day and took a nano drake (because yolo) to Rahadalon and welped it. Got a few nice kills in the process and while it a lot of poeple were out to kill me its not like it was a blob vs blob scenario.

Honor is a fools prize. [I]Glory is of no use to the dead.[/I]

Be a man! Post with your main! ~Vas'Avi Community Manager

Prince Kobol
#31 - 2013-10-17 06:27:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Prince Kobol
Jaangel wrote:
Can someone please explain CCP's Current track of thought with the ongoing balance changes.

As i can see it all they have done is to push people into larger groups flying **** ships.

I used to be able to go out in a 10-15 man gang have fun and compete with larger blobs. Im not saying we could have won outright, we rarely held the field but we could at least get a fight out of it and a few kills before we ran away.

NOW

Links changes make it harder to compete.
The soon to be changes to cepters make it harder to evade blobs in anything other than a cepter.

Does CCP not like small gang PVP?
Does CCP want to push out it most die hard of fans by removing their play style?

Eve player who have been here a while normally have done the alliance thing being a 0.0 entity, They have done the high sec bearing. They settle into small groups to blow **** up.

I feel that CCP really needs to think about all of the change and should re introduce something that makes small gang viable again im not after 3 people and a link alt taking on the entire of eve on their own but tactics such as hit and run in medium sized ships should be viable.

Please stop pushing people into blobs it's bad for game play it's bad for fun and finally it's bad for eve.



Please tell us what you want CCP to do to encourage small gang warfare?

In what way can CCP make more people fight in small gangs?

What constitutes a small gang, 5, 10, 15 20 people?

Also what changes have CCP made that is pushing people into forming Blobs?

I see a lot of crying but no examples of where CCP have pushed people into blobs and any changes designed to hurt small gang PvP
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#32 - 2013-10-17 08:00:30 UTC
Jaangel wrote:
You have hit the nail on the head perfectly in describing what they have done wrong in the recent balance change they have given each ship a role. what CCP thinks that ship should do. Eve has always been a sandbox were players take what you have given them and use it in interesting ways.

If by "interesting ways" you mean "fit a generic failship in a decent way to kill people while they are laughing at what you're flying instead of locking you before it's too late", then I agree with you. The truth is, without roles we just had a bunch of huls that can run min-maxed fits for certain role the best, and then there were hulls that did nothing better than to-go ones for specific tasks.
Specified roles at least ensure that ship can find some use and be optimal... Somewhere, somehow.

Back on topic, there's not much you can do that benefits small group without helping large ones.
Tyranis Marcus
Bloody Heathens
#33 - 2013-10-17 10:56:33 UTC
Charlie Firpol wrote:
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
CCP makes more small gang oriented changes --> Whine thread about CCP nerfing large gangs.

CCP makes more large gang oriented changes --> Whine thread about CCP nerfing small gangs.

CCP makes any groups size oriented changes --> Whine thread about CCP nerfing Solo PvP.

CCP makes any changes to anything whatsoever --> Whine thread about CCP nerfing something.



Far too many words, this is how the general discussion forum and basically life works:

Change -> Whine


I can condense it for you a little more.

Here goes:

Do not run. We are your friends.

Tyranis Marcus
Bloody Heathens
#34 - 2013-10-17 10:56:51 UTC
Whine.

Do not run. We are your friends.

Tyranis Marcus
Bloody Heathens
#35 - 2013-10-17 10:57:45 UTC
Meaning forums in general, not the OP. I'm staying out of that discussion.

Do not run. We are your friends.

March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2013-10-17 10:59:30 UTC
Jaangel wrote:
Batelle wrote:
the warp speed changes should be a massive boost for hit and run tactics and roaming gangs.

Also, what you've said has been said about every patch for about the last 7 years. Its really old and tired.


Urm how is it a boost? when you will just be out run by a cepter tackled and blobbed i dont think you thought that response through very well did you?


that's what interceptor is for.

you don't like it? kill it before blob arrived. CCP gave you decreasing of interceptor tank

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"

Roime
Shiva Furnace
#37 - 2013-10-17 11:14:18 UTC
OP has 0 kills

.

Wacktopia
State War Academy
Caldari State
#38 - 2013-10-17 11:26:48 UTC
Jaangel wrote:

Links changes make it harder to compete.


How so? Any changes you suffer, the 'blob' suffered too. You perception might be that it affects your groups differently but do you have any evidence or statistics to back up this claim? ALso, define 'harder'.

Jaangel wrote:

The soon to be changes to cepters make it harder to evade blobs in anything other than a cepter.


I don't see how the changes to a ceptor mean anything in this context. Interceptors can really only tackle one of you and have a paper tank. Also the cargo bay of a ceptor is being nerfed so it cannot light a cyno.

Kitchen sink? Seriousy, get your ship together -  Fleet-Up.com

Random Majere
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2013-10-17 11:42:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Random Majere
Wacktopia wrote:
Interceptors can really only tackle one of you and have a paper tank. Also the cargo bay of a ceptor is being nerfed so it cannot light a cyno.


Shocked They gona nerf the cargo size? Crap!!!
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#40 - 2013-10-17 12:42:11 UTC
Ceptors will still be able to light cynos, they just need to gimp their fit to fit it and the fuel. CCP thinks this will be a balancing factor. It won't be, and expanded cargo hold and maybe a cpu mod or rig isn't going to greatly degrade a ceptors performance, and Carrier ratting will become a thing of the past lol.
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