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Intergalactic Summit

 
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A plea for restraint for Kinhar's trial

Author
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2013-10-16 03:24:16 UTC
Nashuar Attor wrote:


Sadly Fred it seems the be the people who the said liberty apparently belongs to, are the people who are bearing the brunt of the defending. The greater the threat from the outside, the more punishment the federation is heaping upon the people who live there. Like an angry parent unable to express their frustration and taking their anger out on the family they are supposed to be protecting.

And my initial point is that no bail seems to have been set. He may not have any money, but be assured that there are many who would come forward to pay the bond on him.


Exactly what punishments have the people of the Federation endured? Life has been more or less the same before the war started than it is now. A little extra security and background checks sure but do you really expect so much privacy when "spy gadgets" near the quality of intelligence services are available to every consumer? Sure the Black Eagles can turn into a problem, and I share most people's discontent with them, but with some reforms and regulations they won't get out of control. All they really need is a less politically aligned commander and some more requirements for their investigation and we're set.

Put it this way, the Federation is experiencing political power, military strength, and economic prosperity that it hasn't seen in decades. I personally detest the Roden administration but damn it he has to be doing something right in order for this unprecedented upswing in events for our great nation to be occurring.

If there are many who would be willing or able to pay for his bail then why haven't they done so already? Actually, since you seem to care so much about him, why haven't you payed for it? As a capsuleer surely you would be able to pay for his bail a hundred times!

Few people want to spend money on a complete stranger that may wind up in jail for the rest of his life or on death row. Such is the hypocrisy of people like you. I'm willing to bet all the ISK in the world that among the protesters is someone wealthy enough to bail him out without any issues whatsoever.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!

Aelisha
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#22 - 2013-10-16 08:36:57 UTC
I think Nashuar Attor's point is less about the paying and more about the lack of something to pay for. In this case, bail simply hasn't been offered. All the ISK in the cluster cannot buy you something which does not exist, in this case the price of this man's liberty is in that state.

Then again, with an alleged triple homicide to answer for (and not being a capsuleer), the poor individual was always unlikely to be granted bail.

I may be missing some details, but how did this man kill his aggressors? Was weaponry involved or did he allegedly do the deed only with the limbs and grit he was born with?

CEO of the Achura-Waschi Exchange

Intaki Reborn

Independent Capsuleer

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#23 - 2013-10-16 10:11:57 UTC
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
People often fail to realize that when applying for a job or school, a Matari with the same credentials as a Gallentean will always be picked over the Gallentean, just so the organization in question can meet their race quota's or boast about diversity.

This is the most stupidest practice I have ever seen.
Gallenteans totally rot their brains away?...

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2013-10-16 10:46:11 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
People often fail to realize that when applying for a job or school, a Matari with the same credentials as a Gallentean will always be picked over the Gallentean, just so the organization in question can meet their race quota's or boast about diversity.

This is the most stupidest practice I have ever seen.


For once I think we can agree, to an extent.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!

Nashuar Attor
Rat Kings Crew
#25 - 2013-10-16 11:08:07 UTC
I think you made my point for me Fred without understanding it. Aelisha has understood that if there was bail to post I would have paid without thought. I wasn't being hypocritical, I was searching for a reason.

I really must confess to a lack of knowledge of the Gallente legal system. My original point was as to whether or not the legal system is biased against the minmatar or not. Don't get me wrong. If you want a system rife with discrimination based on race you won't get worse than that of my own people. If the same thing had happened on, say, Lustrevik, and the perpetrator had been Gallente, he would have been dead within three days, found guilty. The thing is, we don't pretend we're anything other than what we are. We will favour own and be harder on others, no question. There are no equity committees, no civil libertarians, because we have no illusions. Just say that the federation is for the Gallente and be done with it.

You'll have to speak up, I'm wearing a towel.

Kyllsa Siikanen
Tuonelan Virta
#26 - 2013-10-16 11:12:51 UTC
I always love it when members of a majority group point out how great members of minority groups have things.

“Crying is all right in its own way while it lasts. But you have to stop sooner or later, and then you still have to decide what to do.” 

― C.S. Lewis 

Aelisha
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#27 - 2013-10-16 11:17:26 UTC
Kyllsa Siikanen wrote:
I always love it when members of a majority group point out how great members of minority groups have things.


There's a reason I left the so-called 'land of freedom', and this is pretty much it. Integrate, or all your achievements are because your masters and betters 'deemed it appropriate to uplift you'. Such is life in a melting pot of cultures, when one culture stokes the fires that drive the process.

CEO of the Achura-Waschi Exchange

Intaki Reborn

Independent Capsuleer

Seriphyn Inhonores
Elusenian Cooperative
#28 - 2013-10-16 12:22:03 UTC
Considering the upper limit for ethnic Gallentean citizens is 35% of the total Federation population, and the estimated number for ethnic Minmatar citizens are 30%, it'd be hard-pressed to call them a 'minority'.

Seems like a word from the pre-spaceflight era, to be fair.
TomHorn
Horn Brothers Holdings Inc.
#29 - 2013-10-16 12:29:10 UTC  |  Edited by: TomHorn
I wouldnt be surprised if Federation Senators try and influence the case to get a guilty verdict. Maybe for the way the Minmatar Republic reneged on their deal with Broteau. Or as an act as revenge for the terrorist attacks by the Bloody Hands of Mattar, while also gaining political support from the ethnic (true) Gallente people of the Federation, that a guilty verdict would bring.
Aelisha
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#30 - 2013-10-16 13:03:01 UTC
Seriphyn Inhonores wrote:
Considering the upper limit for ethnic Gallentean citizens is 35% of the total Federation population, and the estimated number for ethnic Minmatar citizens are 30%, it'd be hard-pressed to call them a 'minority'.

Seems like a word from the pre-spaceflight era, to be fair.


Ethnicity does not denote culture. There are plenty of Intaki who could pass for Gallente in all but genetics, but let's discuss this in private rather than distracting from this particular incident and it's unique circumstances. I will be available via evemail later today, but at present incoming transmissions are blocked due to the quantity of spam I was receiving from less scrupulous capsuleers.

CEO of the Achura-Waschi Exchange

Intaki Reborn

Independent Capsuleer

Anslo
Scope Works
#31 - 2013-10-16 13:50:38 UTC
Rioghal Morgan wrote:
Kindly keep your barbaric views on what is good and just to yourself. The Federation needs no lessons on morality from slavers and zealots.

See, she'd be cute if she wasn't so crazy right?!

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Anabella Rella
Gradient
Electus Matari
#32 - 2013-10-16 17:50:05 UTC
It's enlightening to see some of the rhetoric coming from some of my fellow Federation citizens.

When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.

Anslo
Scope Works
#33 - 2013-10-16 17:51:46 UTC
Wait you're a citizen??

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Kyllsa Siikanen
Tuonelan Virta
#34 - 2013-10-16 19:39:44 UTC
Youre aware that a group CAN be a "minority" and NOT be the least populous, yes? Minority refers to position within society, not just numbers.

“Crying is all right in its own way while it lasts. But you have to stop sooner or later, and then you still have to decide what to do.” 

― C.S. Lewis 

Jandice Ymladris
Aurora Arcology
#35 - 2013-10-16 19:41:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Jandice Ymladris
Yesterday, two capsuleerfleets organized a protest at Synchelle to demand more clarity on the subject and to lay out their demands on what should happen. The two fleets were the Freedom-Force and the Justice-Fleet, each representing the stance they took on the subject.
The protest itself was fairly peaceful, and when things got heated, the two FleetCommanders had the wisdom to call the end of the protest, to prevent any escalation.

More info about this protest can be found here : Minmatar/Gallente protests in Synchelle for Elokur's Trial! - Aurora Arcology News

Providing a new home for refugees in the Aurora Arcology

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#36 - 2013-10-16 20:06:05 UTC
"What's the situation?" "I have no idea, but I have an opinion anyway!"

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2013-10-16 22:08:11 UTC
Imperials lecturing Federals on equality? Thanks, guys. I was feeling down and I needed a good laugh.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#38 - 2013-10-16 22:13:32 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Imperials lecturing Federals on equality? Thanks, guys. I was feeling down and I needed a good laugh.


Feeling down because you lost your glasses? Try the back of the sofa cushions.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2013-10-16 22:13:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Fredfredbug4
Nashuar Attor wrote:
I think you made my point for me Fred without understanding it. Aelisha has understood that if there was bail to post I would have paid without thought. I wasn't being hypocritical, I was searching for a reason.


All Federal citizens are offered bail. Just because the bail wasn't payed, doesn't mean he wasn't offered it. Hell, he could of refused bail simply to gain sympathy in what would otherwise be a very one sided case. Not everything is about race, as much as race baiters like you would like it to be.

Nashuar Attor wrote:
Just say that the federation is for the Gallente and be done with it.


If the Federation was for the Gallente then we would of expanded the way the Amarr have, aggresive conquest, forced conversions to our culture and beliefs, and severe punishments for all who resist integration. As you can clearly see, that's not how history played out. The Federation is for all who seek to make something of themselves by doing it by themselves.

Aelisha wrote:


There's a reason I left the so-called 'land of freedom', and this is pretty much it. Integrate, or all your achievements are because your masters and betters 'deemed it appropriate to uplift you'. Such is life in a melting pot of cultures, when one culture stokes the fires that drive the process.


You forget that there are entire constellations in the Federation where the vast majority of the population don't know a word of Gallentean. The Federation is not a melting pot. We are independent races and cultures who are working together because we believe that doing so will benefit everyone, which it has so far. The only time you will ever see a melting pot type of society is in that of hive worlds, stations, and other major focal points within the federation. However for the most part, people keep to their own culture, which are alive and well despite what you want to believe.

People seem to forget (or refuse to remember) that the Federation is exactly what it is, a Federation, which are partially self- governed states or regions that are under a centralized government. Member nations and states of the Federation have their own unique laws that may not be shared with other parts of the Federation. They also have their own unique culture and society.

Think of the Federal Government as a miniature CONCORD. A place where many different cultures and societies come together to work towards a common goal.

TomHorn wrote:
I wouldnt be surprised if Federation Senators try and influence the case to get a guilty verdict. Maybe for the way the Minmatar Republic reneged on their deal with Broteau. Or as an act as revenge for the terrorist attacks by the Bloody Hands of Mattar, while also gaining political support from the ethnic (true) Gallente people of the Federation, that a guilty verdict would bring.


That's not how the balance of powers works. The Senate cannot influence the Judiciary whatsoever. The President looks over the Judiciary and his only real check on them is the ability to appoint new justices, which he will probably only get to once during his term.

Kyllsa Siikanen wrote:
Youre aware that a group CAN be a "minority" and NOT be the least populous, yes? Minority refers to position within society, not just numbers.


So we can just change the accepted definition of terms whenever we want now? I'll keep that in mind.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#40 - 2013-10-16 22:29:59 UTC
Can I just say that a jury trial is the worst idea I've ever heard of? My perp is guilty or not-guilty based on how well the linguistic posturing of two people who don't know the law any better than I do convinces a number of people who don't know the law at all?

Winds defend me.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.