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Help the Tempest
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David Kir
Errantry Armaments
#41 - 2013-10-11 17:57:32 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
pest works great, try not being scurbs, probably where most of your problems originate


You might want to reformulate this sentence, as it currently does not mean anything, nor does add any significant contribution to this discussion.

The Tempest's intended niche is next to non-existent, and it is overshadowed by other battleships in most roles.

Take a Typhoon.
It is faster
it is lighter (more speed under MWD)
it has a better slot layout as far as both fleet and small gang pvp go
it's a much better PVE workhorse
it has the same shield tank and a better armor tank
a smaller sig
a bigger dronebay/more drone bandwidth (bigger cargo, too, no matter the relevance)
more DPS
it's equally non cap-reliant
one less utility slot vov

And if the Typhoon doesn't work in an alpha configuration, just switch to the Maelstrom.


If it's to be left as fragile as it is, let CCP merge the two damage bonuses and slap a nice tracking/falloff bonus.
That would at least give it a damage application edge.

Friends are like cows: if you eat them, they die.
Naomi Anthar
#42 - 2013-10-11 19:14:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Naomi Anthar
Grath Telkin wrote:
pest works great, try not being scurbs, probably where most of your problems originate



Good answer, to those who cannot figure out what it can do well. Or how to fit it and use.

You basically ask it to have 2 utility highs , when for example apoc got no single one. You ask also that it should be fast (it is), you ask it to have small sig (it has small sig). You ask it to be versatile (it is - you can armor tank it or shield tank).

And you got it . Damage is not bad as people say here. with double bonuses it is pretty nice actually. It got more effective turrets than apoc just to mention, while it still has more speed, less sig and 2 utility highs !

What you want is best damage around, best speed around and best tank .
It is versatile boat and i can tell you i saw it in use. We used it in gang of damage + remote repping battleships. It did work pretty well. It was used in other roam as damage dealers with neuts.

Actually it's decent ship. Maybe created more with small engagements in mind, but is still decent.

Not sure if that what Grath Telkin was trying to say - but i assume it may be that.

I try not to be scrub - sometimes it even works.(not always tho ;/)

edit : i'm scrub confirmed by next post - forgot smartbomb option ;). Yeah ship needs creative person to fit it properly - but it gives many many options.
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#43 - 2013-10-11 19:19:26 UTC
David Kir wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
pest works great, try not being scurbs, probably where most of your problems originate


You might want to reformulate this sentence, as it currently does not mean anything, nor does add any significant contribution to this discussion.

The Tempest's intended niche is next to non-existent, and it is overshadowed by other battleships in most roles.

Take a Typhoon.
It is faster
it is lighter (more speed under MWD)
it has a better slot layout as far as both fleet and small gang pvp go
it's a much better PVE workhorse
it has the same shield tank and a better armor tank
a smaller sig
a bigger dronebay/more drone bandwidth (bigger cargo, too, no matter the relevance)
more DPS
it's equally non cap-reliant
one less utility slot vov

And if the Typhoon doesn't work in an alpha configuration, just switch to the Maelstrom.


If it's to be left as fragile as it is, let CCP merge the two damage bonuses and slap a nice tracking/falloff bonus.
That would at least give it a damage application edge.



The Phoon is great in its own right, but its damage isn't instant and missile damage i find too unreliable in any case. The Maelstrom is also a fine ship in its design, however since it prefers a solid shield tank it can't use its mids for the same level of utility that say, an armor tanked tempest (in many configurations the armor pest works really well) will while also pumping out fairly obscene amounts of DPS and having TWO utility high options, which can easily include a neut to harass enemy tackle and a smart bomb to deal with those annoying EC 300s

Dont tell me the ship is bad when it functions rather well in any number of rolls just because you lack the given creativity the ship demands

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Tragedy
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#44 - 2013-10-11 19:27:30 UTC
Onictus wrote:
SO far as it goes I'm not arguing that Tempest doesn't need something.

All of the large projectile boats could use a little help if they aren't named Mach. For the Pest boosting its speed and agility through the ceiling and letting us so "really big BC builds" would make me happy.

No one is asking me though.

I think thats exactly what it needs. To be the fast minmatar battleship. Either way, something needs to be done with it, its useless as is. We said this during the battleship changes. I dont see why they arent doing something about this ship.
David Kir
Errantry Armaments
#45 - 2013-10-11 19:53:37 UTC  |  Edited by: David Kir
Grath Telkin wrote:


The Phoon is great in its own right, but its damage isn't instant and missile damage i find too unreliable in any case. The Maelstrom is also a fine ship in its design, however since it prefers a solid shield tank it can't use its mids for the same level of utility that say, an armor tanked tempest (in many configurations the armor pest works really well) will while also pumping out fairly obscene amounts of DPS and having TWO utility high options, which can easily include a neut to harass enemy tackle and a smart bomb to deal with those annoying EC 300s

Dont tell me the ship is bad when it functions rather well in any number of rolls just because you lack the given creativity the ship demands


I'd like to see this armor tempest of yours that pumps out "obscene dps".
A shield Tempest's dps is ok, and dps is not the issue here.

I'd also argue that turrets are as unreliable as missiles.
Look at all of the TD and skirmish links out there, do you think your armor pest's terribad tracking will be able to hit all that much?
You've got much more of an armor tank on a typhoon, the same utility mids (a web/TP and you'll apply most of your damage, plus a cap booster if you want it), all of which traded for a single utility high.
And we have RHMs incoming, which will leave it with better damage application and much more fitting space.

I don't think that a single utility high is worth all of what the Typhoon has to offer.

Friends are like cows: if you eat them, they die.
Icarus Able
Refuse.Resist
#46 - 2013-10-11 20:02:29 UTC
10% ROF per level bonus with a tracking Bonus.
and rob a Low and give it a mid or rob a mid and give it a low. Mkae it a viable sheild or armor tanker. Along with a bit more speed to keep in line with the hit and run type of ship its supposed to be
David Kir
Errantry Armaments
#47 - 2013-10-11 21:25:14 UTC  |  Edited by: David Kir
Naomi Anthar wrote:

What you want is best damage around, best speed around and best tank .


I'm sure you'll find out that most comments around here revolve around mobility and sig.
The are also damage application proposals, but I don't see many ANDs.

Friends are like cows: if you eat them, they die.
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#48 - 2013-10-11 22:07:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Mina Sebiestar
Onictus wrote:
Mina Sebiestar wrote:
"tempest fleet issue does armor artillery pretty well"

I would argue that armor version does artillery as same as shield one..worse than maelstrom

If i want to truly utilize arty in armor mode to max il simply fit them on machariel.

In pvp il stay away from fleet pest as mediocre 500 mil wasted isk.


With good skills TFI hits 40% harder than Maelstrom in any three gyro build and within 20% of the mach


No.



Edit: nwm you are corrected few post above.


Also would take a TFI with similar speed and agility of a Mach without touching anything else or would take it if it have same or better gank than maelstrom so that mael don't win out in both gank and tank...

Anything is better than current "it have two utility slots" and it would put ship in more action...

For t1 version a am fairly non interested it is cheap throw away ship for skirmishes but fact remain that most other ships stepped hard on its toes.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard
ArcticPrism
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2013-10-13 01:09:11 UTC  |  Edited by: ArcticPrism
Mina Sebiestar wrote:


Edit: nwm you are corrected few post above.


Also would take a TFI with similar speed and agility of a Mach without touching anything else or would take it if it have same or better gank than maelstrom so that mael don't win out in both gank and tank...

Anything is better than current "it have two utility slots" and it would put ship in more action...

For t1 version a am fairly non interested it is cheap throw away ship for skirmishes but fact remain that most other ships stepped hard on its toes.


If they touch the Tempest maybe they will touch the TFI as well.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#50 - 2013-10-13 19:10:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Alvatore DiMarco
The Tempest needs to be one of those rare BS that can run its MWD for more than a couple of cycles at a time. To do this it needs more cap, probably in the form of regen rate.

It's just fine right now being able to shield or armor at the pilot's discretion. We already have a Matari armor BS and shield BS, leave the Tempest as either-or. Perhaps a very very small boost to CPU.

We should have an artillery platform in the Maelstrom, a missile platform in the Typhoon and an autocannon platform in the Tempest. Or at least that's how I look at it.
ArcticPrism
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2013-10-14 15:23:32 UTC  |  Edited by: ArcticPrism
Less mass and more agility might help with that as it wouldn't need to run its mwd as long to get up to speed.
ArcticPrism
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2013-10-16 17:49:01 UTC
Little nudge for great justice.
Jelani Akinyemi Affonso
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#53 - 2013-10-16 17:55:24 UTC
ArcticPrism wrote:
There is a small discussion about it here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=251860

I feel like the ship needs some help. It seems like it's lacking compared to every other ship. It's hard to find something that it isn't worse at than every other Battleship. Some new bonuses might be a way to boost the ship. Someone in this thread suggested giiving it a falloff bonus + 10% damage or 7.5% rof. A larger drone bay could be interesting too.


+1
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#54 - 2013-10-16 17:55:37 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
The Tempest needs to be one of those rare BS that can run its MWD for more than a couple of cycles at a time. To do this it needs more cap, probably in the form of regen rate.

It's just fine right now being able to shield or armor at the pilot's discretion. We already have a Matari armor BS and shield BS, leave the Tempest as either-or. Perhaps a very very small boost to CPU.

We should have an artillery platform in the Maelstrom, a missile platform in the Typhoon and an autocannon platform in the Tempest. Or at least that's how I look at it.


some good points about cap i think Tempest should be the arty platform .. Maelstrom being ASB ship should be AC's mobile small gang ship.

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#55 - 2013-10-16 17:58:23 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
The Tempest needs to be one of those rare BS that can run its MWD for more than a couple of cycles at a time. To do this it needs more cap, probably in the form of regen rate.

It's just fine right now being able to shield or armor at the pilot's discretion. We already have a Matari armor BS and shield BS, leave the Tempest as either-or. Perhaps a very very small boost to CPU.

We should have an artillery platform in the Maelstrom, a missile platform in the Typhoon and an autocannon platform in the Tempest. Or at least that's how I look at it.


some good points about cap i think Tempest should be the arty platform .. Maelstrom being ASB ship should be AC's mobile small gang ship.




Almost ANYTHIGN you coudl do to temepst.. even ramdom changes would make it better.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
ArcticPrism
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2013-10-16 17:59:11 UTC  |  Edited by: ArcticPrism
What would make the Tempest better than the Maelstrom at artillery? Though personally I'd rather it stay as an autocannon ship.
ArcticPrism
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#57 - 2013-10-19 15:04:20 UTC
More nudging!
ArcticPrism
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#58 - 2013-10-21 17:34:57 UTC
A list of the suggestions I've seen in this thread so far:

more speed
more agility
less mass
smaller sig radius
better mwd usage
damage + falloff bonus
6th mid
more turret slots
artillery platform
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#59 - 2013-10-21 18:39:59 UTC
ArcticPrism wrote:
What would make the Tempest better than the Maelstrom at artillery? Though personally I'd rather it stay as an autocannon ship.


People who say they want to see the Maelstrom as an AC platform and the Tempest as artillery are probably considering the bonuses. The Maelstrom has RoF and shield boost, which works fairly well when you're in the thick of things but leads to a moderately-wasted tanking bonus when you're out at artillery range. The Tempest has a RoF bonus as well but also has a damage bonus which leads to higher alpha. I'm not sure the Tempest would have more alpha than an 8-turret Mael, though.
ArcticPrism
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#60 - 2013-10-22 03:01:21 UTC
Yeah. The Tempest is worse than the Maelstrom in terms of alpha. It would need more turret slots to do equal or more alpha. Also more powergrid. It has 6250 less than the Maelstrom with level 5 skills and no implants. It would need fitting rigs/lows to fit more than 6 artillery and in the end would be worse still because of the slots spent on fitting.