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Skills - why does this still happen?

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Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#41 - 2013-10-15 20:44:44 UTC
San La Muerte wrote:
Johnny Marzetti wrote:
Look, just ~roleplay~ it. You have Mining 2 because you were in prison. For being a badass.


Ok but nothing happened in prison did it? Nothing, you know, bad?


Only badass.

And yes while it's the tutorial's job to teach the newbies about these things it's also the reason that the current skill system is where it's at now.

When I started we picked a career and started out with something like 800k SP right out of the chute. But now you start with bare minimum skills so that the tutorial can step you through on what they mean and which ones you might want more than others.

That said, they NEED basic industry if you wanna to give them a fluid experience of trying the industry agent without them having to sit and wait 10 minutes before continuing anything in the tutorial. That sudden halt and being forced to wait will leave a bad taste in the mouths of the newbs.

We either need to give them industry or give them a civilian BPC that doesn't need industry to be built.

Likewise everything that's given to the players should be civilian, webs, ABs, reppers, hardeners, etc so that they never have any modules they can't already use.

And THAT, my friend, is where I think dev time is worth being spent regardless of your issue. I would accept them removing things like the racial weapon system and the mining and industry skills from a fresh character assuming that they have enough civvy stuff given to them that they can keep moving without stopping. Maybe even remove the racial ship skill and let them fly to another system to start off as another faction.

The Drake is a Lie
Anomaly One
Doomheim
#42 - 2013-10-15 20:47:39 UTC
It's like free money from idiots why shouldn't CCP implement this everyone will be happy since you're now less competitive with everything you detrain? (like that guy who said he has lvl 5 in all PI and wants to remove LOL) makes other PIs happy makes you regret later on Big smile and cry on the forums to get it back (more tears) and makes CCP money

Imagine if someone has lvl 5 in all missiles and plexes to get rid of it since missiles are useless in this fictional situation, now a couple months later and missiles get buffed and are favored over turrets, then the crying ensues saying it's not fair and whatnot, it's a win win for everyone!
San La Muerte
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#43 - 2013-10-15 20:53:59 UTC
Xercodo wrote:
San La Muerte wrote:
Johnny Marzetti wrote:
Look, just ~roleplay~ it. You have Mining 2 because you were in prison. For being a badass.


Ok but nothing happened in prison did it? Nothing, you know, bad?


Only badass.

And yes while it's the tutorial's job to teach the newbies about these things it's also the reason that the current skill system is where it's at now.

When I started we picked a career and started out with something like 800k SP right out of the chute. But now you start with bare minimum skills so that the tutorial can step you through on what they mean and which ones you might want more than others.

That said, they NEED basic industry if you wanna to give them a fluid experience of trying the industry agent without them having to sit and wait 10 minutes before continuing anything in the tutorial. That sudden halt and being forced to wait will leave a bad taste in the mouths of the newbs.

We either need to give them industry or give them a civilian BPC that doesn't need industry to be built.

Likewise everything that's given to the players should be civilian, webs, ABs, reppers, hardeners, etc so that they never have any modules they can't already use.

And THAT, my friend, is where I think dev time is worth being spent regardless of your issue. I would accept them removing things like the racial weapon system and the mining and industry skills from a fresh character assuming that they have enough civvy stuff given to them that they can keep moving without stopping. Maybe even remove the racial ship skill and let them fly to another system to start off as another faction.


That's a good point actually yes. The necessity of having a skill to actually complete the tutorial.

Yes, I remember the days. It was 680k SP iirc. And we all remember learning skills. Hell, when I started the races actually meant something, you'd get a completely different set of attributes depending on who you rolled. Just goes to show that they can make such changes though if they really want to.

"I am the harbinger of hope.  I am the sword of the righteous and to all who hear my words I say this: what you give to this empire, I shall give back unto you" - Empress Jamyl Sarum I at her coronation.
Ryhss
#44 - 2013-10-15 22:29:23 UTC
I liked the old system where you chose your starting skills.

I just turned into an egg, did I level up? I spent an hour trying to salvage a wreck, when in local a guy said "Stop it, this is my Tempest, I was AFK"
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#45 - 2013-10-16 00:05:37 UTC
This thread has been moved to Features & Ideas Discussion.

I have also removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay.
Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!

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ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Smohq Anmirorz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#46 - 2013-10-16 15:21:53 UTC
San La Muerte wrote:
Smohq Anmirorz wrote:
My, but don't we live in a privileged age?


Is that your generic response to any request to improve the game/gameplay experience.




No, I don't do 'generic response'. I was just responding to what sounded like a sense of entitlement.
Mocam
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#47 - 2013-10-16 17:05:20 UTC
Kyt Thrace wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Kyt Thrace wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
[I can already visualize a kajillion exploits for this, and I'm not even criminally minded. Sheesh. Are you posting just to be poasting? (yup).

I too would like to know the kajillion exploits for this.

Most of them revolve around massively slimming down a deep-specialist character to the point where you hardly even have to pay clone costs for it.

Since you only ever need the outer layer of prerequisites, it's not hard to imagine a max-skilled capship pilot tootling around in a 8M SP clone, making it completely throw-away when having those level skills (and that skill depth) is actually supposed to come with a sizeable cost.

Granted, that particular problem could be patched by just having the rule that you can't delete a skill if you have any other skills on your sheet that use that particular skill as a prerequisite.


First, About clone costs. CCP reduced them by 30% & have stated that they want to remove them from the game. Also you are paying a PLEX to do this which at the moment is 600 mil, that is a lot of clone upgrades.

Second, CCP already has a check in the skill system, you cannot install a skill without the prerequisite. So they just reverse that check system. You will not be able to delete a skill that is required for another skill you have plugged in. Easy coding.

Third, this is a vanity addition, just like PLEX for Re-Sculpt. Yes, I am OCD about my skill sheet.

But even that said, what I do not like about this game is that to try something out you have to inject skills like I did for PI (5 of them). I decided I did not want to do PI any more or EVER again on this character. I want those skills removed. It should be my choice. I do not deserve the skill points back or reimbursed for the skill books.



I somewhat agree with this. The "they want to remove them..." means little if it's still there.

The vanity reworking part is valid. It would be a cost to returns ratio on this.

A rough guestimate would be 350-500 of these would need to be sold to recoup dev costs. It shouldn't take more than a couple weeks for them to figure it out and hook it together and such.

CCP has invested a hell of a lot more effort into things that never saw more than a peak at a potential future while this one would sell to at least some people. They probably already have chunks of code for a lot of this (I do recall them talking about PLEX for remaps and such so the hooks are probably already in place for something along these lines.)

Personally I have no problems with someone paying to vanity strip skills. Just as long as Tipia's "remove prerequisites" isn't hit. Why the hell not let someone toss money at CCP?
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