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[Rubicon] Sisters of EVE faction ships

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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#1721 - 2013-10-16 06:13:21 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
As is almost anyone (sorry Caldari pilots) can cross train into the Stratios with minimal SP investment as Minmatar ships have some armor tanks and a decent number have drone bays, Amarr is an armor race with a weapon of drones and Gallente is an armor race with a weapon system of drones, making all those races (relatively) quick to fly an armor drone pirate ship. Caldari being the only ones who are exclusively shield and operate with minimal drones would have a lot of SP to invest to pilot this ship.

If the ship becomes more laser focused it creates longer cross training times for non-Amarr pilots (and even longer for Caldari).

Agreed. But the ship is meant to be laser focused as CCP announced their vision as well as drone focused. Yet currently you will most likely see non laser setups on it due to various reasons (Cap or DPS). If they want that laser focus on it, that's simply something people are going to have to accept. It's not like Amarr pilots can instantly fly Cynabals, or Gila's (Sounds like Gila's may become a missile boat made perfectly for Caldari missile skills after all)
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#1722 - 2013-10-16 06:20:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Alvatore DiMarco
I must admit that I wouldn't mind seeing stronger laser bonuses on the Stratios.

The Astero simply doesn't have the highslots for fitting any turrets so it's not really an issue there.

Go on and suggest a nerf to the bandwidth if it's coupled to stronger laser bonuses, but cut off your hands before you try to suggest nerfing drone bay or cargo hold.
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#1723 - 2013-10-16 10:43:00 UTC
Overpowered and broken ships, please do not release them without some proper balance.

The Tears Must Flow
Sukur
WhiteOps
#1724 - 2013-10-16 11:27:35 UTC
Can this ships decloak and target, or do they have a delay?
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1725 - 2013-10-16 13:48:06 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
I must admit that I wouldn't mind seeing stronger laser bonuses on the Stratios.

The Astero simply doesn't have the highslots for fitting any turrets so it's not really an issue there.

Go on and suggest a nerf to the bandwidth if it's coupled to stronger laser bonuses, but cut off your hands before you try to suggest nerfing drone bay or cargo hold.

That wont actually change the paper DPS by much, it only shifts it from one weapon system to another and pushes the ship more to the Amarr side rather than being balanced between both races.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1726 - 2013-10-16 13:50:43 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
As is almost anyone (sorry Caldari pilots) can cross train into the Stratios with minimal SP investment as Minmatar ships have some armor tanks and a decent number have drone bays, Amarr is an armor race with a weapon of drones and Gallente is an armor race with a weapon system of drones, making all those races (relatively) quick to fly an armor drone pirate ship. Caldari being the only ones who are exclusively shield and operate with minimal drones would have a lot of SP to invest to pilot this ship.

If the ship becomes more laser focused it creates longer cross training times for non-Amarr pilots (and even longer for Caldari).

It's not like Amarr pilots can instantly fly Cynabals, or Gila's (Sounds like Gila's may become a missile boat made perfectly for Caldari missile skills after all)

No they can't but a drones are a general weapon system that many ships use, pushing the ship towards lasers will off set the ease of access to all explorers.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1727 - 2013-10-16 13:54:27 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:

But by tying it into guns more, it means you can't do the bypasses on cloak targeting delays people were talking about. And also thematically ties it into lasers better.

This only works if you have a second person that has the target locked and tackled. At that point a Vexor Navy issue will work just as well or better than the Stratios, because it has a drone tracking bonus, for bypassing the targeting delay. You can put a cloaking device on the Vexor Navy Issue keeping it off of D-Scan until a target has been found, once found and tackled it no longer matters if they see you coming.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Tzar Sinak
Mythic Heights
#1728 - 2013-10-16 22:35:24 UTC
Hold up there folks.

I am a Caldari missile chucker with no SP in turrets. There are a lot of us out there and many of us are explorers. I envision using these ships for exploration. My primary weapon of choice will be drones. My high slots will be cloak, probe launcher, remote reps and possible a tractor/salvager/neut/vamp all depending on whether I think I will be ganked. hmmm, that said I'd probably put neuts and cycle them accordingly.


So, leave the drones bonuses alone and feel free to dump any turret weapon bonuses. Maybe keep/add a cap recharge bonus. Now I can run my neuts and you can still run your lasers. Now we all get something without penalizing one segment of the population with this exploration ship.

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ConranAntoni
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1729 - 2013-10-16 22:43:23 UTC
Checked back into thread to see if people finally calmed down from being ******** and thinking paper dps is actual dps;

Leave disapointed.

Will wait till IQ rises above that of a potato.

Empyrean Warriors - Recruiting now.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#1730 - 2013-10-16 22:56:12 UTC
Complaining that a pirate ship designed around Lasers & Drones (as officially announced by CCP) is too hard to train into for certain races.... Rubbish.
Really, get some better arguments, exploration is not some magic thing that makes it different from any other ship. Nor is this the only ship capable of doing exploration.
Every ship out there is harder to train into for someone.

I also fail to see how upping laser DPS to make it a 50/50 DPS split pushes it heavily into the Amarr camp The only Amarr thing it currently has going on is the armour resists from cruiser skill. Other than that you will not see Laser set ups on the present build. You will also not see Amarr drones except in very niche applications, you will see Gallente & Minmatar drones. So right now it is heavily on the Gallente side of things with some Minmatar influence for the projectile fits.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1731 - 2013-10-16 23:02:01 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Complaining that a pirate ship designed around Lasers & Drones (as officially announced by CCP) is too hard to train into for certain races.... Rubbish.
Really, get some better arguments, exploration is not some magic thing that makes it different from any other ship. Nor is this the only ship capable of doing exploration.
Every ship out there is harder to train into for someone.

I also fail to see how upping laser DPS to make it a 50/50 DPS split pushes it heavily into the Amarr camp The only Amarr thing it currently has going on is the armour resists from cruiser skill. Other than that you will not see Laser set ups on the present build. You will also not see Amarr drones except in very niche applications, you will see Gallente & Minmatar drones. So right now it is heavily on the Gallente side of things with some Minmatar influence for the projectile fits.

The closer it gets to the 50/50% area the more marginalized damage mods become, which may not necessarily be bad, but it also penalizes fitting it for actual exploration as now devoting highs to mods that support it's task, such as a probe launcher, or rr to increase drone survivability are more penalized than those simply gank fitting it.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1732 - 2013-10-16 23:38:21 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
The only Amarr thing it currently has going on is the armour resists from cruiser skill. Other than that you will not see Laser set ups on the present build. You will also not see Amarr drones except in very niche applications, you will see Gallente & Minmatar drones. So right now it is heavily on the Gallente side of things with some Minmatar influence for the projectile fits.

Did you forget that Amarr has a drone ships from destroyers on up now?

What makes the ship Gallente
High Drone Bandwidth, Drone Damage Bonus, Armor Tank

What makes the Ship Amarr
Large Drone Bay, Drone Damage Bonus, Armor Tank

Lasers seem to be chosed simply and only because of their charge size being 1m^3.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Eko Fromtv
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1733 - 2013-10-17 00:05:06 UTC
Yeah I see the eft warrior did not quit despite being proven wrong a thousand times.

Give the ship a laser bonus in line with its Amarrian heritage. "but armour!!!" yeah, yeah... check that to the Gallente side and stop whining,.

1. Add laser bonus to the hull
2. Don't touch anything else

Price and decloak delay make the paper thin eft fits from fairytale land USELESS in actual EVE gameplay. Ship is not overpowered, doesn't need a nerf.

(Ice) Miner for life.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1734 - 2013-10-17 00:11:25 UTC
Eko Fromtv wrote:
Yeah I see the eft warrior did not quit despite being proven wrong a thousand times.

Give the ship a laser bonus in line with its Amarrian heritage. "but armour!!!" yeah, yeah... check that to the Gallente side and stop whining

I seem to be missing the large number of Gallente ships with resist bonuses.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1735 - 2013-10-17 00:22:11 UTC
Eko Fromtv wrote:
Yeah I see the eft warrior did not quit despite being proven wrong a thousand times.
As soon as these can be tested of Sisi the ETF will stop, but until then.....
Eko Fromtv wrote:

Give the ship a laser bonus in line with its Amarrian heritage. "but armour!!!" yeah, yeah... check that to the Gallente side and stop whining,.

Amarr is armor too, and they are drones too so is gallente. Both races have contributed to the effectiveness of the ship.
The laser's only contributiing factor to the ship is its small charge size, and nothing else there are other weapons that preform better overall without tracking, damage, and projection bonuses.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#1736 - 2013-10-17 02:43:39 UTC
The point of a laser bonus is that CCP said they wanted these to be Laser/Drone ships.

Currently, they are not.
Iudicium Vastus
Doomheim
#1737 - 2013-10-17 05:55:52 UTC
I'm imagining afk cloaking will become just slightly more scary with these new covops moderate to high dps drone ships, being much quicker to get into than recons. Now maybe some supposed afk'ers will reach out and actually badtouch you.

[u]Nerf stabs/cloaks in FW?[/u] No, just.. -Fit more points -Fit faction points -Bring a friend or two with points (an alt is fine too)
Eko Fromtv
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1738 - 2013-10-17 08:16:00 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:

Amarr is armor too, and they are drones too so is gallente. Both races have contributed to the effectiveness of the ship.
The laser's only contributiing factor to the ship is its small charge size, and nothing else there are other weapons that preform better overall without tracking, damage, and projection bonuses.


Best way to honour the Amarrian heritage - lasers \o/

(Ice) Miner for life.
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#1739 - 2013-10-17 08:24:26 UTC
When you see so many themepark carebears happy with this ships, it's a indication that something is very wrong with them.

This ships are completely overpowered, the absence of power creep fenomenon is something that makes EvE a great sandbox mmo-rpg, please don't change that.

The Tears Must Flow
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#1740 - 2013-10-17 08:43:07 UTC
Iudicium Vastus wrote:
I'm imagining afk cloaking will become just slightly more scary with these new covops moderate to high dps drone ships, being much quicker to get into than recons. Now maybe some supposed afk'ers will reach out and actually badtouch you.

Except for the part where all the EFT warrioring going on is assuming perfect V's in all drone skills..... Now go and actually look how long that takes. Then how long to get the perfect V's in all Gunnery skills for Medium Blasters to go with their EFT warrioring. And perfect V in 2 cruisers.
Now look at how little time is needed for Recons relative to that training.

These are certainly not faster to train into than recons to kick those numbers out.