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Light, Medium & Heavy Drones in PVE

Author
Unit XT365MK
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2013-10-16 02:34:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Unit XT365MK
It's probably best if I assume I don't know what I'm doing. Can anyone give me tips on how to keep aggro off my drones?

Here's what I have tried that doesn't work:

  • Drones on passive, orbiting while I attack. Attacked

  • Drones on passive until I breach shields on a a target (assumption of solid aggro), launch drones at target. Attacked.

Here's some things I mean to try (but am dubious due to guns not holding aggro):

  • Target painters to hold aggro

  • ECM to hold aggro

Here's what I'm not interested in hearing about:

  • Sentries

Thanks in advance for any tips or help! Right now it seems like non-sentry drones are useless, but it could just be my tactics that are useless.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#2 - 2013-10-16 02:45:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Tauranon
The entry of light drones to a pocket will usually draw aggro from elite frigates present. As a droneboat user, I occasionally fail to blap elite frigates with sentries and have to switch. This is fine, because my light drones will win that fight against 2 or 3 elite frigates (the ship I'm thinking of has 4 drone damage mods and the usual drone hitpoint bonuses so the lights are positively lethal and hard to kill).

If you have a missile boat that has poor application at any range against elite frigates, but also low drone damage skills and low drone durability, its quite conceivable that your light drones could lose such a fight.

Turret users can usually blap an elite frigate if its engaged at range first up.

I have had little trouble using mediums from a deimos or from a vigilant, bearing in mind I have full drone skills, plenty of experience managing them and I retract them before new spawns. If you don't know the anom or mission triggers you might get far worse results. Also the viiglant is pretty good at killing elite frigates with its web bonus and its main weapon system - so my best bet is to kite them with the meds retracted or well away from them.

heavies from a kronos or from a navy 'thron has been fine. The presence of a 1000 dps blaster battleship tends to keep the NPCs from noticing heavies, though I also carry them to the NPCs and don't send them on long solo expeditions.
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
#3 - 2013-10-16 03:12:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Ireland VonVicious
NOS + Target painter and you will hold aggro much better in L4's
Go with ECM instead of TP when running incursions if you are trying to hold aggro.

Use hornets for lights as they have the highest speed to dps ratio.
They also have the highest shield pool making damage rinsing easier.
Dato Koppla
Neuronix
#4 - 2013-10-16 04:31:07 UTC
You also need to mention what kind of ship you're using and what kind of PvE you're doing in order to give you advice on this. Generally in these kinds of scenarios blapping frigs at range when they are approaching is the best way of dealing with npc frig drone aggro. Also you mentioned heavy drones, heavy drones are generally not a good idea for PvE because they can take aggro from everything (light drones will only be aggroed by frigs, mediums by cruisers and frigs, and large by everything), on top of that they are slow meaning you'll like end up losing them if they are too far out. You should always use sentries for PvE as they can be pulled in instantly and are able to track cruisers and up very well especially on drone tracking bonused boats.

In my experiencre trying to hold aggro on your ship is near impossible when most of your dps is coming from drones, however if you use sentries for everything other than frigs and lights for frigs than get under your guns, the aggro is very manageable and you can pull sentries in and deploy them again immediay to refresh the aggro. Avoid using heavies. Other options are to remote rep your drones or fit small guns to deal with close orbiting frigs.
The Spod
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2013-10-16 07:47:22 UTC
An interesting question.

In my experience heavy drones are ideal for "not drawing aggro" and tanking any aggro. With omni track links and/or Dominix bonus they also kill frigate rats hilariously fast. I would not be surprised if a Dominix with drone durability mods could function as an afk boat; ishtar most likely better.

Off topic: I wonder if five heavy shield bots telling in a chain would draw aggro from the main ship ^^
Vas Eldryn
#6 - 2013-10-16 09:03:31 UTC
I don't find using drones in missions are a cost effective way of missioning anymore... not since the AI update, with one exception, using a Dominix / rattlesnake with sentries and a micro jump drive. replacing drones are just too expensive. You have to invest A LOT of SP in drones though.
Dato Koppla
Neuronix
#7 - 2013-10-16 09:20:41 UTC
Vas Eldryn wrote:
I don't find using drones in missions are a cost effective way of missioning anymore... not since the AI update, with one exception, using a Dominix / rattlesnake with sentries and a micro jump drive. replacing drones are just too expensive. You have to invest A LOT of SP in drones though.


I used a Domi without MJD for a good month or so after the NPC aggro changes and never lost a single drone, you just have to pay attention. Also getting T2 Sentries is far less skill intensive than other T2 Battleship weapons.
Vas Eldryn
#8 - 2013-10-16 09:26:03 UTC
Dato Koppla wrote:
Vas Eldryn wrote:
I don't find using drones in missions are a cost effective way of missioning anymore... not since the AI update, with one exception, using a Dominix / rattlesnake with sentries and a micro jump drive. replacing drones are just too expensive. You have to invest A LOT of SP in drones though.


I used a Domi without MJD for a good month or so after the NPC aggro changes and never lost a single drone, you just have to pay attention. Also getting T2 Sentries is far less skill intensive than other T2 Battleship weapons.


I agree that it can be done, but missions like worlds collide and the blockade deploying drones is just suicidal as it aggro's everything... after switching to missile boats i'll never deploy drones again.
Rengerel en Distel
#9 - 2013-10-16 12:31:56 UTC
Vas Eldryn wrote:
Dato Koppla wrote:
Vas Eldryn wrote:
I don't find using drones in missions are a cost effective way of missioning anymore... not since the AI update, with one exception, using a Dominix / rattlesnake with sentries and a micro jump drive. replacing drones are just too expensive. You have to invest A LOT of SP in drones though.


I used a Domi without MJD for a good month or so after the NPC aggro changes and never lost a single drone, you just have to pay attention. Also getting T2 Sentries is far less skill intensive than other T2 Battleship weapons.


I agree that it can be done, but missions like worlds collide and the blockade deploying drones is just suicidal as it aggro's everything... after switching to missile boats i'll never deploy drones again.


Web a sentry, and almost never lose aggro again.

As to the OP, CCP changed the NPC AI to switch targets based on sig size, EWar, and/or logistics. Not sure if anyone can link the changes after Odyssey when they fixed it, but it told you which npc ships will target which drones. I generally don't send any drone more than 10km from my ship. Webs generally hold aggro, a target painter does not. Remote repping a drone or other player does a good job of keep aggro as well.

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.

Shaotuk
Sin City Enterprises
#10 - 2013-10-16 13:04:10 UTC
I fly a passive tank Rattlesnake (Amarr Space) loaded with sentries, medium, and light drones only. No ECM, webs, or NOS.

I have only lost one drone in the last 3-4 months and that was due to me not paying attention.

I grab aggro with missiles before deploying drones and if there is an aggro switch, I pull drones in and wait til aggro is reestablished.

I don't see what the issue is...
Unit XT365MK
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2013-10-16 13:53:00 UTC
Dato Koppla wrote:
You also need to mention what kind of ship you're using and what kind of PvE you're doing in order to give you advice on this. Generally in these kinds of scenarios blapping frigs at range when they are approaching is the best way of dealing with npc frig drone aggro..


Good point. I'm a relatively new player grinding up reputation in L3's with a Armageddon using Cruise Missiles. I found it interesting that the first reply mention the problem with missiles on frigates, sounds like I should switch to artillery if I want something cap free.


Dato Koppla wrote:
I agree that it can be done, but missions like worlds collide and the blockade deploying drones is just suicidal as it aggro's everything... after switching to missile boats i'll never deploy drones again.


I also found this interesting as running the Blockade 2x while hemorrhaging drones is what led me to post.

Shaotuk wrote:
I fly a passive tank Rattlesnake (Amarr Space) loaded with sentries, medium, and light drones only. No ECM, webs, or NOS.

I have only lost one drone in the last 3-4 months and that was due to me not paying attention.

I grab aggro with missiles before deploying drones and if there is an aggro switch, I pull drones in and wait til aggro is reestablished.

I don't see what the issue is...


It seems most of the people referring to this as a non-issue are very high-sp characters. Any tips from you for a low-sp character?

And to everyone else, thanks so much for all the tips. I'm going to try them all out.
Ginger Barbarella
#12 - 2013-10-16 18:32:48 UTC
Shaotuk wrote:
I fly a passive tank Rattlesnake (Amarr Space) loaded with sentries, medium, and light drones only. No ECM, webs, or NOS.

I have only lost one drone in the last 3-4 months and that was due to me not paying attention.

I grab aggro with missiles before deploying drones and if there is an aggro switch, I pull drones in and wait til aggro is reestablished.

I don't see what the issue is...



This. I think I've lost two lights in the last couple months. When I fly drone boats I use T2 Sentries almost exclusively, and when I use lights I never send them out beyond 30km; in general I like them in close and tight. Pay attention and you shouldn't be losing drones at all.

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac

Aeril Malkyre
Knights of the Ouroboros
#13 - 2013-10-16 20:08:16 UTC
Something I've learned recently, after forcing myself to run a drone boat through level 3's to learn the mechanics better:

Anything bigger than a light drone will tend to ignore it.
Anything bigger than a medium drone will tend to ignore it.
Anything bigger than a heavy drone, the heavy should be able to tank.

I learned this on a Myrmidon with okay drone skills. Launch lights, take out frigates/dessies. Not many elite frigates in Level 3's. Recall lights, send out mediums to clean up cruiser size. Leave them out for BC's and BS's, or recall and send in the heavies if there's a lot of them still left.

Back in my usual missioning, I fly a Vargur with AC's, a flight of mediums, and a flight of salvagers. Obviously more like what you're describing, non-Gallente battleships don't have as much freedom to choose drone sizes. So knocking frigates out with the main guns is key, and then sending the Valkyries out to engage cruisers/BCs while I engage the BS's.
GordonO
BURN EDEN
#14 - 2013-10-16 22:59:07 UTC
Firstly, don't use a BS for lvl 3 missions, especially with cruise missiles, the rapid heavy's may change that.. but we will see.
The best way I find is to only use lights when things are close so you can get them back in time, otherwise sentries.
Sentries are easy to work with, you can fit medium shield RR to keep them alive as they are stationary all the time.
I would not suggest anyone send their drones far away as they will almost always draw aggro. Once the drone is out there, NPC will use the same methods on them as they do on your ships to kill them, ie, they will web your drones and shoot them, so even if they mwding back, they will be slower and possibly not make it back

... What next ??

Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#15 - 2013-10-17 08:05:57 UTC
I find it odd that people say target painters. Considering my raven uses two and the drones still get eaten - when I launched them, I don't bother much any more, waste of energy.

OP, I'm sorry but my experience is that unless you want significant hassle, you're damned to use sentries or lights at point blank. It's not /impossible/ to use others but in my view, it's far more hassle and grief than the returns warrant.