Skill Discussions

New character, still less than a week old.I found EVEMon, and I started following the TEST 30 Skill plan to give me something to do while I figure out the different roles.

I already know I'm interested in Logistics. So I started picking through old Logistics posts and plugging in skills.

It looks like I should be skilling for at least 75 days to get to a racial Cruiser 5 and Logi 4 (with appropriate shield skills to 4). If I want Logistics 5 that's another 27 days on top of it. "Everything" I read seems to indicate that Logistics 4 and a T2 cruiser is the realistic bare minimum for a starter Logistics pilot (anything less is just useless).

Am I misunderstanding something...do I really have to train for 75-100ish days before I can be what would be considered a useful Logistics pilot? Are the people who say T1 Logistics hulls suck just being elitist or are they really as useless as the comments in the forums seem to indicate?

If the training time is really that long, what can I do in the meantime that would involve training up related skills but let me do something more interesting than L1 & 2 hauling missions.

Flying a tech 1 logistics hull will make you the single most important member of a small PVP gang. Three armor tanked, damage dealing ships with an Exequror will perform at least as well as five armor tanked damage ships in a small gang engagement. Especially for use in AWOX piracy (joining corps to hold their members to ransom via legal highsec combat), T1 logi ships are incredible. Many an 8 hour old character supported by a 1 week old t1 logi pilot (that isn't in corp) has done a billion ISK or more in damage that way.

The issue with tech 1 logi is that they die very, very easily when sneezed at, while a t2 logi can have upwards of 75000 effective hitpoints. I've not run the numbers but I don't see you getting half that on a t1 hull.

This matters more if you run incursions than anywhere else. In PVP, tech 1 logi ships are often the right tool for the job, as (once you've played a little while) losing a 25m ISK cruiser is nothing, and so you can be super reckless with them in a way that you would not with a 350m basic incursion fit Oneiros, or a blinged-out 1200m one.


If logistics is your thing, I would look to progress T1 Logi Cruiser => T2 Logi Cruiser => Carrier. But always be willing to use the right tool for the job, even if it is a tool you feel you outgrew months ago. (Skip T1 logi frigates entirely, they do not perform well IMO).

I want to add:

100 days for a perfect *this or that pilot* in EVE is fairly common.
Many hulls really shine when you get the skills to V
Recon
Logi
Battle Cruiser
Battleship
Carrier
etc.
etc.

If you really enjoy a specific ship class, then you will understand the benefits when you get further along.
Being *perfect* is really quite different from being *average*
And when you achieve *perfect*, it is a really great, satisfying feeling of accomplishment.

That said:
The other posters are right, in that, you can be very effective in T1 hulls and have a ton-o-fun for cheap.
And, it is probably best to take your first 10 or 20 losses in a T1 hull.

As for hull sizes?
Fly what the fleet composition calls for.

100 days seems to be VERY short for a fresh character. You are also missing T2 Repair drone operations and all core skills. I would say you're probably looking at closer to 200 days. You need the core skills by the way, otherwise you won't be cap stable. You also need rigging skills and multitasking, otherwise you can't lock up enough people. This is if you want a 'perfect' logistics pilot though.

Nothing stops you really from putting your week old pilot in an Osprey or what not, and use remote repair units with the skills just at 1. As long as you have fun doing it, go for it. :)

EDIT: The reason people ask for Logi5 logistic pilots is because the difference between 4 and 5 is being cap stable or not. When you run out of cap, your modules deactivate and others wont get repairs. That right there could be the difference between dead pilots, or successful op.

Choose the correct logi for what you want to do.

4 options:

Armor solo - Gallente

Armor pairs - Amarr

Shield solo - Minmitar

Shield pairs - Caldari


You will have far less cap issues or tank issues with the ones built to be used in pairs when flying a T1.
Down side is you can't do half as well if you are the only logi on the field.
Incursions will except any kind but seem to lean toward pairs.

(( By pairs I mean made to work in groups of two or more odd numbers are fine as you can cap triangle ))

Another awsome mixed group logi that is over looked a lot is the arbitrator.
Can hold a set of armor and shield drones with a flight of damage drones. All with a solid buffer tank and a few other goodies.
This maybe a good starter ship for you if you want the option to get on the kill mails with any small gang you might be flying with.
Also gives you something to run L2 missions in.

Personal choice is Caldari for shield / pairs. Also gives you the option of flying ECM if group has enough logi already.

I have never had the experience where people complain about me healing them.

if you fly logi in pvp more then once then get it to 5. a lot of times we wont even accept someone with logi 4 in our fleets, the difference is waaaay to big. Logistics and recon are those skill you NEED to get to 5 if you plan to fly it more then once.

About a year ago they "rebalanced" the logi frigates. Before that rebalancing, t1 logi ships were VERY bad at being logistics ships (in general). However, since the rebalance a t1 logi cruiser is about 80% as effective as a t2 logi cruiser (for 1/5th the cost). Today, a t1 logi cruiser is a very capable ship, and you can quickly skill into it.

Logi Frigates are a very niche ship. They have their place in certain fleet types, and honestly, will have an even bigger place with the release of Rubicon (next month). This is because the warp speed changes will greatly increase the maneuverability of frigate/dessie hull gangs, and the logi cruisers will be the only ships to keep up. These are generally most viable in numbers, whereas a single logi cruiser is a straight up force multiplier.

yeah love your logi bros. We have 100% reimbursement for logis and fly t1 logi in our smaller derpy fleets often. it is so hard to find people willing to fly logi, those of us that do tend to get burned out from time to time.

Now if it is a specific fleet and they can't fly the logi we need, we tell them to fly dps instead. Because they only work with logi 5 specific fit guardians etc. and we dont want to be too logi heavy as then people dont fight you so you just cant bring an extra logi along for the heck of it. that is what the small derp fleets are about.

Even though I would generally agree with you...although I believe I would never fly anything or fit anything at L3, it is often considered essential to get Logistics to L5....with good reason...for example one of the bonuses for an Oneiros is "15% reduction in Remote Armor Repair System capacitor use...per level"...pretty important for a logi not to gimp it's fit so you can run reps any length of time. All racial logi's have a bonus to cap usage and that extra pool of cap L5 gives you can mean all the difference to your buddies.