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[Rubicon] Interceptors

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gascanu
Bearing Srl.
#441 - 2013-10-15 07:53:03 UTC
+1 on giving bubble immunity to dictors,

it will make more sense, atm they are the ships that die on fleets fights faster even that inties;

also tank nerf don't really make sense, ceptors will be faster, true, will be able to avoid bubbles, true, but at the same time they will need to keep targets tackled for a longer period of time, since the rest of the fleet will take longer to arrive or will be delayed by bubbles Roll
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#442 - 2013-10-15 08:08:25 UTC
Iyacia Cyric'ai wrote:
Except the Taranis isn't a fleet interceptor. It doesn't tackle any better than a lot of the T1 frigs and as already stated it's even not that good at fighting T1 frigs after their remake. So what exactly is it's T2 specialisation?

I think it needs to be either faster so it can perform better than its t1 coutnerparts as an anti-kite or anti-fleet ceptor support OR unnerf the EHP and possibly even give it slightly more hull to maintain its prior viability as a fast brawler. For anyone who actually flies the Taranis, they know its past reputation no longer holds true as it is.

Oh so the MWD sig bonus is nothing ?
And after these changes, bubble immunity + insane warp speed will be nothing ?

Have you ever flown an interceptor as an interceptor or did you only ever flown them as all rounded fast fighters ? There is a difference.

The MWD sig bonus most notably is what allow a ceptor to survive on a battlefield where any other frigate would die.
Randy Wray
Warcrows
THE OLD SCHOOL
#443 - 2013-10-15 08:37:26 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Iyacia Cyric'ai wrote:
Except the Taranis isn't a fleet interceptor. It doesn't tackle any better than a lot of the T1 frigs and as already stated it's even not that good at fighting T1 frigs after their remake. So what exactly is it's T2 specialisation?

I think it needs to be either faster so it can perform better than its t1 coutnerparts as an anti-kite or anti-fleet ceptor support OR unnerf the EHP and possibly even give it slightly more hull to maintain its prior viability as a fast brawler. For anyone who actually flies the Taranis, they know its past reputation no longer holds true as it is.

Oh so the MWD sig bonus is nothing ?
And after these changes, bubble immunity + insane warp speed will be nothing ?

Have you ever flown an interceptor as an interceptor or did you only ever flown them as all rounded fast fighters ? There is a difference.

The MWD sig bonus most notably is what allow a ceptor to survive on a battlefield where any other frigate would die.

You constantly talk about fleet interceptors and their role in large scale combat, there are other ways to play the game and the changes small gang interceptor pilots are asking for won't affect your gameplay. When it comes to the role of combat interceptors you seem rather deluded, when was the last time you saw a taranis or crusader as a fleet tackler?

Solo Pvper in all areas of space including wormhole space. Check out my youtube channel @ http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCd6M3xV43Af-3E1ds0tTyew/feed for mostly small scale pvp in lowsec/nullsec

twitch.tv/randywray
Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#444 - 2013-10-15 08:48:39 UTC
Randy Wray wrote:
You constantly talk about fleet interceptors and their role in large scale combat, there are other ways to play the game and the changes small gang interceptor pilots are asking for won't affect your gameplay. When it comes to the role of combat interceptors you seem rather deluded, when was the last time you saw a taranis or crusader as a fleet tackler?

Fleet and battlefield don't necessarily refer to large scale combat, and I flought a Taranis not so long ago and found it very good in a cruiser fleet : you can tackle targets for the fleet and good chunks of damage.

Combat ceptors are also rather good to catch and kill support and kiting ships. They are in fact better than attack frigate for a lot of things.

Though, of course, combat frigate will be very tough adversaries unless you use attack frigates tactics.

The days of useless T1 frigates are over. All ships need a place, and interceptors don't belong to heavy fighters.
Randy Wray
Warcrows
THE OLD SCHOOL
#445 - 2013-10-15 09:09:11 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Randy Wray wrote:
You constantly talk about fleet interceptors and their role in large scale combat, there are other ways to play the game and the changes small gang interceptor pilots are asking for won't affect your gameplay. When it comes to the role of combat interceptors you seem rather deluded, when was the last time you saw a taranis or crusader as a fleet tackler?

Fleet and battlefield don't necessarily refer to large scale combat, and I flought a Taranis not so long ago and found it very good in a cruiser fleet : you can tackle targets for the fleet and good chunks of damage.

Combat ceptors are also rather good to catch and kill support and kiting ships. They are in fact better than attack frigate for a lot of things.

Though, of course, combat frigate will be very tough adversaries unless you use attack frigates tactics.

The days of useless T1 frigates are over. All ships need a place, and interceptors don't belong to heavy fighters.

Noone has asked them to become heavy fighters, all that has been asked for is that the taranis shouldn't have it's tank nerfed, rather slightly buffed minding it's the slowest interceptor.

As a matter of fact alot of people including me have been arguing against the resist bonus on the raptor since neither it's stats or playstyle supports it.
Quote:

They are in fact better than attack frigate for a lot of things.

What?

Solo Pvper in all areas of space including wormhole space. Check out my youtube channel @ http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCd6M3xV43Af-3E1ds0tTyew/feed for mostly small scale pvp in lowsec/nullsec

twitch.tv/randywray
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#446 - 2013-10-15 11:42:07 UTC
Randy Wray wrote:
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Randy Wray wrote:
You constantly talk about fleet interceptors and their role in large scale combat, there are other ways to play the game and the changes small gang interceptor pilots are asking for won't affect your gameplay. When it comes to the role of combat interceptors you seem rather deluded, when was the last time you saw a taranis or crusader as a fleet tackler?

Fleet and battlefield don't necessarily refer to large scale combat, and I flought a Taranis not so long ago and found it very good in a cruiser fleet : you can tackle targets for the fleet and good chunks of damage.

Combat ceptors are also rather good to catch and kill support and kiting ships. They are in fact better than attack frigate for a lot of things.

Though, of course, combat frigate will be very tough adversaries unless you use attack frigates tactics.

The days of useless T1 frigates are over. All ships need a place, and interceptors don't belong to heavy fighters.

Noone has asked them to become heavy fighters, all that has been asked for is that the taranis shouldn't have it's tank nerfed, rather slightly buffed minding it's the slowest interceptor.

As a matter of fact alot of people including me have been arguing against the resist bonus on the raptor since neither it's stats or playstyle supports it.
Quote:

They are in fact better than attack frigate for a lot of things.

What?



Ranis doesn't really need a tank buff, it needs slighlty more fittings and about 25% of its structure moved to armor.

Would be perfect.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Andrea Keuvo
Rusty Pricks
#447 - 2013-10-15 12:57:52 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Interceptor time!

You'll also notice we kinda devestated the cargo capacity of all the Interceptors. The intention is that if you want to use their bubble immunity for a cyno ship, you have to put some work into it and gimp your fit a tad.

The actual ship details will be split into the next post for length.



I really cannot believe that bubble immunity in its current form is still on the table for these ships. if you are going to allow them to have bubble immunity then that should be done via a module, not built into the hull. And that module should come with fitting requirements that make it impossible to fit a cyno. You can have your cake, but you should not be able to eat it too. This game does not need a instant allign, bubble immune cyno boat that can cross a system in 10 seconds and costs less than 30m isk. If you want to cyno, instant allign+superfast warp should be enough. You should not get bubble immunity on top of that too.
Sister Sophia
Doomheim
#448 - 2013-10-15 13:16:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Sister Sophia
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Ranis doesn't really need a tank buff, it needs slighlty more fittings and about 25% of its structure moved to armor.


I agree with most of what you say. But not with this. Devs: Please keep the structure hit points in structure. Thanks.

I suppose the difference is in how we fit our ceptors. Keeping the HP in structure keeps the fitting options more flexible. Anyway, it's a Gallente ship and those hull tank the end of an engagement all the time.
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#449 - 2013-10-15 13:18:11 UTC
Quick update with some tweaks that should be in the next SISI build:

Malediction:
3 (+2) turrets (back to the old number of turrets for drone shooting)
Lock range: 31.5km (+4)

Ares:
Lock range: 30.5km (+3)

Stiletto:
Lock range: 29.5km (+2)
Scan res: 970 (+45)

The OP is updated with the latest numbers.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Sabine Vynneve
Paisti
#450 - 2013-10-15 13:25:54 UTC
Fozzie, do you understand that this is still too little lock range to not need to waste your fitting to even be able to lock as far as you can point...
Jayne Fillon
#451 - 2013-10-15 13:29:53 UTC
Sabine Vynneve wrote:
Fozzie, do you understand that this is still too little lock range to not need to waste your fitting to even be able to lock as far as you can point...


Some people will never be happy. Personally, I'm rather thrilled at the extra 4 (!) kilometers of lock range on the malediction.

Good changes, Fozzie.

Can't shoot blues if you don't have any. Long Live NPSI.
Kaeda Maxwell
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
#452 - 2013-10-15 13:31:45 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Quick update with some tweaks that should be in the next SISI build:

Malediction:
3 (+2) turrets (back to the old number of turrets for drone shooting)


<3

Have my babies, please?
Helicity Boson
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#453 - 2013-10-15 13:32:28 UTC
Related sidenote:

Warp speed rigs penalize armor tanks which only affects a subset of inties.

Possible solutions: Sig radius, cargo space, fittings could be penalized instead to allow a level playing field.
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#454 - 2013-10-15 13:33:11 UTC
Sabine Vynneve wrote:
Fozzie, do you understand that this is still too little lock range to not need to waste your fitting to even be able to lock as far as you can point...


The numbers listed in these threads are before skills apply.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
Shadow Cartel
#455 - 2013-10-15 13:33:14 UTC
Sabine Vynneve wrote:
Fozzie, do you understand that this is still too little lock range to not need to waste your fitting to even be able to lock as far as you can point...


it is exactly what is needed. If u want to point from 50km than u dump your fit. Can't do everything at once.

BALEX, bringing piracy on a whole new level.
BAJRAN BALI
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#456 - 2013-10-15 13:33:50 UTC
These are wonderful tweaks. Maybe I won't need to fit that sebo anymore... I'm sure I'll find something useful to fill those mids.

YouTube: kds119 Twitter: @realkds119 Blog: derptw.blogspot.com
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#457 - 2013-10-15 13:34:44 UTC
Helicity Boson wrote:
Related sidenote:

Warp speed rigs penalize armor tanks which only affects a subset of inties.

Possible solutions: Sig radius, cargo space, fittings could be penalized instead to allow a level playing field.


It's something we're thinking about yes, although I'm not really sure warp speed rigs will be such a good choice that it's a big disadvantage for the armor inties. We definitely will be keeping the option of changing this open and at the top of our minds.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#458 - 2013-10-15 13:35:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Garviel Tarrant
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Quick update with some tweaks that should be in the next SISI build:

Malediction:
3 (+2) turrets (back to the old number of turrets for drone shooting)
Lock range: 31.5km (+4)

Ares:
Lock range: 30.5km (+3)

Stiletto:
Lock range: 29.5km (+2)
Scan res: 970 (+45)

The OP is updated with the latest numbers.



o.o


Ares still can't fit anything..

Fittings in general are extremely inconsistent between inties.


Edit: How about some useful rigs that penalize shield tanking? That would seem fair and balanced..

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Helicity Boson
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#459 - 2013-10-15 13:40:39 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Helicity Boson wrote:
Related sidenote:

Warp speed rigs penalize armor tanks which only affects a subset of inties.

Possible solutions: Sig radius, cargo space, fittings could be penalized instead to allow a level playing field.


It's something we're thinking about yes, although I'm not really sure warp speed rigs will be such a good choice that it's a big disadvantage for the armor inties. We definitely will be keeping the option of changing this open and at the top of our minds.


Yeah, honestly I don't think THAT many people will elect to use the rigs either, but just for the sake of fairness/consistency it'd be nice :)
BAJRAN BALI
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#460 - 2013-10-15 13:40:50 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Helicity Boson wrote:
Related sidenote:

Warp speed rigs penalize armor tanks which only affects a subset of inties.

Possible solutions: Sig radius, cargo space, fittings could be penalized instead to allow a level playing field.


It's something we're thinking about yes, although I'm not really sure warp speed rigs will be such a good choice that it's a big disadvantage for the armor inties. We definitely will be keeping the option of changing this open and at the top of our minds.


I think keeping with the armor tank is a good idea. Most players don't even tank their interceptors... With exception of course for solo. It stands to reason that you should shed weight to warp faster. That means shed armor or structure. I'll take the armor loss any day for that over structure in an inti. Adding a sig radius penalty to it is just silly... That is how an inti tanks.

YouTube: kds119 Twitter: @realkds119 Blog: derptw.blogspot.com