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Ishtar - DED Fitting - Need some advice
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Tronnic Rhodan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2013-10-14 19:27:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Tronnic Rhodan
Hello everyone!

Since a few days I'm able to fly an Ishtar [T2 Heavy Assault Cruiser]. I switched over from Amarr (Legion) to an Ishtar, because my Legion did not work that good in the new space I am living in. What I want to do with it is flying some DED Complexes or lvl 4 Missions, but mainly DED's. Mostly 8/10 or 10/10. I did run these sites with an Ishtar recently, but I was with some friends since I'm afraid to run them alone. I sometimes had pocket aggro but not for that long.

Here's the fit I'm using:


[Ishtar, PVE_Serpentis]

Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Damage Control II

10MN Afterburner II
Large Shield Extender II
Gist C-Type Kinetic Deflection Field
Gist C-Type Thermic Dissipation Field
Pithum C-Type Medium Shield Booster

150mm Railgun II, Javelin S
150mm Railgun II, Javelin S
150mm Railgun II, Javelin S
150mm Railgun II, Javelin S

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Core Defense Field Extender II


Hobgoblin II x5
Hammerhead II x5
Garde II x5
Warden II x5


Pyfa screenshot from fitting:
Picture with Stats - ALL V
Picture with Stats - My Skills *I can't use T2 Sentrys yet, working on it

I know that the fitting is not that common, since I have a mix of buffer- and shieldtank. I felt very uncomfortable with only 1800 Shield HP so I tried that out. You see on the screenshot that I have 682 HP/s Effective Shield Rep & 202 Passive Shield Rep. Do you think that this will be enough to Speed-Tank DED's? Especially when I'm webbed down for some seconds from Stasis Towers or webbing Frigates?

I tried out various Fits, and this seems to be the best one. But I am still not sure. Some people fully buffer tank them, some use full active tank. I'm just not sure.

If you say "Use a Tengu", I just can say "No", I don't like Caldari, I don't like Missiles, I don't like T3's at all since I don't like paying 3 Bil for an good ship and loosing lots of ISK and skill points when it gets destroyed.

Would be nice if you can help me a little, since I'm very new to all the Drone-Stuff and Gallente especially.

Thank you!

Regards,
Tronnic Rhodan | Franky.

//Edit: The reason for the Small Railguns is that I am able to kill smaller targets that orbit me and my Sentrys cant hit. I know that I could use Hobgoblins to kill them, but sometimes this just works good. I would also use Medium T2's but I lack CPU alot. Smile
Karot
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2 - 2013-10-14 21:11:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Karot
Absolutely, do not split up your tanks.

Ishtar is awesome in that it can snipe frigates from afar real easily w/ sentry's, And if one gets too close, you could use AB/WEB with BLASTERS.

I don't advocate railguns on the Ishtar, just for the simple fact, it's still a cruiser. Doesn't have signficant range.

That's just my .02. Your mileage may vary. I have all the skills to 5 for the Ishtar. It's vicious to say the least when used properly.

I need to tinker with fititngs, add a MJD as a easy way to close and lay out the DPS.

Also, don't need so much shiny. Asking to get ganked mate.

Tons of nasty stacking penalties for the drone amplifier which could be used to improve your range/tracking, or lock range for use w/ sentries.

What I typically do is fling out my sentries, pop all frigs or attempt to. Scoop drones, drop them back out and start hitting whatever's closest.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#3 - 2013-10-15 05:13:24 UTC
Armor tank and medium rails, omnis in the middle against serps. There's really no reason to shield tank the Ishtar unless you go against angels.

.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#4 - 2013-10-15 06:09:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Batelle
I think the shield ishtar may be better than it used to be since it got rebalanced, as a consequence of the application bonus. That said the low shield HP makes it a poor candidate for active tanking, even with a pithum c-type. Either armor tank it or passive shield tank. Vs serpentis, a 10mn AB helps a lot. For your lows you might want repper, kin/therm hardener, DDA, and 800mm plate or second DDA.

Serpentis 8/10 can be an issue, just make sure you have enough dps. The 10/10 should be easy.


For Serpentis, this fit looks fantastic.

[Ishtar, shield passive]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Damage Control II // 3rd DDA
Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay I
Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay I

10MN Afterburner II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Pith C-Type Thermic Dissipation Field
Pith C-Type Kinetic Deflection Field

[empty high slot] Salvager
[empty high slot] Remote rep
[empty high slot] Gun for aggro
[empty high slot] Cloak/whatever

Medium Core Defense Field Purger I
Medium Core Defense Field Purger I

Garde II x5

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Froggy Storm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#5 - 2013-10-15 06:31:17 UTC
Karot wrote:
Absolutely, do not split up your tanks.

Ishtar is awesome in that it can snipe frigates from afar real easily w/ sentry's, And if one gets too close, you could use AB/WEB with BLASTERS.

I don't advocate railguns on the Ishtar, just for the simple fact, it's still a cruiser. Doesn't have signficant range.

That's just my .02. Your mileage may vary. I have all the skills to 5 for the Ishtar. It's vicious to say the least when used properly.

I need to tinker with fititngs, add a MJD as a easy way to close and lay out the DPS.

Also, don't need so much shiny. Asking to get ganked mate.

Tons of nasty stacking penalties for the drone amplifier which could be used to improve your range/tracking, or lock range for use w/ sentries.

What I typically do is fling out my sentries, pop all frigs or attempt to. Scoop drones, drop them back out and start hitting whatever's closest.


MJD is a BS size hull only so that isnt going to work.

The Ish does exceptionally well with heavy drones. The bonus for the speed of the heavys from G-cruiser, in addition to the tracking bonus, makes frigs no trouble at all. They take out elite frigs in one cycle (aka 1 shot each from 5 heavys) And they clear elite cruisers in less than 10. This lets you drop your high slots all togher for expanded tank with out manditory fitting mods. This also gives the space for a 100mn if you want to go the afk/speed tank route.

Im not sure how well the afk fit does for plex runs though. It works very well for hubs and havens though.
Temuken Radzu
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2013-10-15 15:08:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Temuken Radzu
Ishar Shield

[Ishtar, shield passive]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Damage Control II
Capacitor Power Relay

10MN Microwarpdrive II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Pith C-Type Thermic Dissipation Field
Pith C-Type Kinetic Deflection Field

Heavy Electon Blaster II
Heavy Electon Blaster II
Heavy Electon Blaster II
Heavy Electon Blaster II

Medium Core Defense Field Purger I
Medium Core Defense Field Purger I

Orge II 5x

All lv 5 skills
Cap stable with everything activated
1663 m/s with microwarpdrive
948 dps with antimatter and drones

This is very fun to fly, orbit at 3000 and watch anything melt away.
Tronnic Rhodan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2013-10-15 16:20:04 UTC
Thank you for you're suggestions. But HP/s wise the active tank is better.

Not sure if I should try out full buffer. What benefits do I have with it?
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#8 - 2013-10-15 17:03:10 UTC
Tronnic Rhodan wrote:
Thank you for you're suggestions. But HP/s wise the active tank is better.

Not sure if I should try out full buffer. What benefits do I have with it?


Buffer, either as a passive shield tank or as a plate on top of an active armor tank, is very useful in exploration, particularly for a ship that relies on speed tanking or positioning like the Ishtar. Buffer is extra time to get into a good position, extra time to kill off dangerous threats, extra time to put yourself in a sustainable position. The advantage of a passive shield tank is that adding a shield buffer increases your sustained defense as well.

That said, the OPs general strategy of doing a pithum c-type active shield tank with an LSE buffer isn't such a bad idea, despite it breaking a major rule of thumb. I'd have to look at the numbers myself in EFT (however even then I would tweak OPs fit, switch to two CCC's for easy permaboosting and maybe change out the forth DDA and the hislots).

Regarding stasis towers, the ishtar can instapop them, the only thing to worry about is stasis installations, of which the serpentis has only one I think, and it isn't too hard to deal with.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Hell Bitch
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2013-10-16 12:46:12 UTC
Sentry Ishtar will demolish null sec DED's, i used a shield tanked variation for Angel sites. You want range, range and more range.

I use no guns in my highs, think i use cloak, prober, small armour RR and drone link augmentors.

Sentry's pulling aggro will reduce your incoming dps, keeping yourself at stupid ranges means that the silly NPC's have a really hard time hitting your sentrys.

Active v buffer, depends on how much dmg your taking before you burn out to Sentry range, only you'll know that.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#10 - 2013-10-16 14:31:52 UTC
also, for an armor tank, you might consider the reactive armor hardener. It can be very good.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Damon Blood
Back Alley Abortion Clinic
#11 - 2013-10-16 16:51:43 UTC
you have the right idea.

I used a booster Ishtar in Guristas space, and they have much better damage then serps. US AB to keep incoming damage down, and 1800 sheilds is more than enough buffer with 90% plus resists.

My fit is something like this:

DDA
DDA
DDA
DCU
PDS

Pith Med Booster
Pith -C Type Kin
Pith -C Type Therm
Invull II
Rep Fleet AB

Salvager
Cloak

Sentry Drone Range Rigs.


I can tank 8/10 Guristas with this pretty easy.

The 10/10 for Guristas is an entire different beast then the Serp 10/10.
Mnemosyne Gloob
#12 - 2013-10-17 02:12:12 UTC
Personally against Serp/Gurista i would always choose an armor tank - native resists make it awesome. Now that you don't need to invest in capacitor mods anymore, you can just slap on omindirectionals and drone damage amps as you like. Only if you do complexes that have neuts and/or some heavy smartbomb/citadel torpedo i would opt for passive shield version.

My lowsec gursita ishtar for instance runs with c-type mar/b-type kinetic hardener/3 dda, one therm rig and mids are mostly omnis ... it is okay to tank and the damage application is wonderful. I didn't come by this from an advice, i rather built a basic version (overtanked at first) and then skimped on tank/added more gank as i went along. Thats how i would do it - get a fit that you think will work, test it out and optimize as you see fit.