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i doubt you can tank all l4 mission with only bastion module and a med shield. also, it will be very inefficient since you are pretty much stuck in the spot until everything clears because the tank will be so weak outside of bastion

You don't fly against Guristas/Sanshas much, do you?

Constantly, my go-to is Spacelane Patrol so I get tons of them. Sanshas don't do much and you prime the Guristas that have the jammers. Permajamming hasn't been a problem for years.





Absolutely. I already use sensor boosters pre-bastion. You basically have to use sensor boosters on marauders, but they're worth their weight on pirate BS too. I have never run into problems from excessive ewar from serpentis outside of null.

You've quite literally got to be joking/trolling. Have you ever flown a Vargur or a Machariel? At all? Use a pair of tracking computers and 1 or 2 tracking enhancers. Sanshas really do practically nothing to ISK efficiency. And if you feel you've got a couple too many TD for comfort, it turns out you can kill the TD rats first.

You don't need to stack SeBos. You use one, scripted. Serpentis close to point-blank range so you don't even need to keep it scripted for long. And the idea of "gimping your midslots" is a joke on shield tankers with Bastion, as-is.

My mistake. Since I only have the appropriate t2 weapon systems trained for Vargur and Golem, I've done really limited testing with the Kronos and Paladin, yes. We were definitely on different pages concerning that part.

I did note in my OP that I found bastion damage projection bonuses underwhelming, I think those and a neutralizer immunity (or resistance) would be better suited than Ewar immunity to serve shield and armor ships alike. Armor ships, for instance, are simply not viable in many L5 due to requiring capacitor for every single conceivable tank, including AAR.

I do feel that an implementation of both Ewar immunity and neutralizer immunity has the potential to be overpowered in PvP. I think the current state of tank is moreso though, and "overpowered" is a relative term when your ship has such low built-in buffer that it can be alpha'd relatively easily by a small gang of BC/BS.

Well, I do think any neutralizer resistance or immunity should be coupled with a reduction in the current tanking mechanics, giving marauders a vulnerability to extreme DPS as well. Bastion SHOULD make tanking better, but it stacks a 100% repair bonus on top of a 37.5% repair bonus and adds 30% resistance to everything. That's a really, truly ridiculous amount of damage absorption. And neutralizers are already less effective against an ASB fit than any other active tanking fit, neutralizer immunity with other vulnerabilities elsewhere would help to level the playing field.

Indeed. I've long wanted a mini-dread and the new bastion module offers pretty much exactly what I'd want. I know I haven't been alone in that. However with such capabilities have to come serious draw backs. Being the mini-dread mandates an active tank and the main weakness of those is cap. Neut invulnerability would just make them stupidly OP where as right now I think they are reasonably balanced. A good dps support BS for small gang but useless in a large fleet fight.

As for pve, can't comment on the golem but the vargur and paladin are massive overkill in the tank department for lvl4's. However they lack the punch of something like a navy geddon. It's a trade off, I don't view them as the best lvl4 runners but pve doesn't end at lvl4 missions. In lvl5's, anoms, ded sites and so on, the extra tank combined with the excellent damage projection is invaluable. I think the Paladin will replace my Archon as my primary high level pve grinder.

And that is something we sorely needed. Something tougher than a regular BS but not into complete overkill territory that the carriers are.

With 2 range rigs and bastion, you can get up to 80km(paper) with javelin missiles.
I know Javelins aren't preferred, but they're still pretty good.
MJD actually makes things a bit easier for a torp Marauder, cause you can just MJD around landing in the middile of groups.
Or, you can simply bastion up, TP something, and let them come to you. Before bastion, a Torp Golem had plenty of issues tanking due to sig and the fact that you couldn't hit, until they were hitting you.


That's the point... No one ever said that the best pve ship in the game has to have the highest dps.
You can give it an uber tank, allowing it to focus more on other things.
Marauders are not capable of tanking pve situations that no other sub cap can. This is awesome.


You wouldn't want ewar immunity on a tengu in missions, cause it has strong sensors with a pve fit, and you're not going to use a marauder against ewar with their live build.
So, your statement here is basically "I don't need my ship to be good against something it sucks at now, because I always use something else."


I saw a player who mentioned that with MJD in lvl 5's, you can just MJD out of range of neut towers. Then with bastion and long range guns, you can just mop up the ships.

You can either have unstoppable dps with a breakable massive tank
Or, you can have jammed out dps with an unstoppable tank.

Hmm, shoot at something I can kill, or shoot at something it would take a POS bashing fleet to kill.... choices choices...




- You can get 500+ dps out of a flight of sentry drones.. That's a lot... My Golem would have over 1500 dps past lock range..
So, no..
Not to mention, they've got enough weapon dps to where many players only use salvage drones, and that's with how they are on live.

- To me, the range is noticeable. I fly a Golem, with torps, I'll get +20km or so if I use 2 t2 range rigs. With cruise I hit 208km without range rigs... That's another 40km or so.. May not matter much with cruise missiles, but if I decide to bastion a POS, it might be nice.

- Many players had mentioned they needed their web bonus back... However, after those players have tested these ships on live with their current build, they've actually been pretty satisfied with both long and short range weapons.

Not to mention, webs would make them extremely strong... Just think, the only thing that can break them in a reasonable amount of time is a neut... If you want to neut you have to get in range... If you get in range you get webbed and waxed...
So, basically there would be no way to stop them.


To me, it sounds like you're trying to suggest less tank and no ewar immunity in exchange for the ultimate pvp boat, outside of ewar immunity.

Web bonuses, large tank(though not as large), neut immunity, damage over 1500.
However, you now own a ship that can do anything, just not while shooting unless you're using those drones cause you're gonna be jammed out...


Honestly... I am quite glad CCP didn't ask you what they could do to better Marauders, cause you're going way off in the wrong direction.

Can you make a valid point without swearing? Can you even make a valid point period? Because as far as I'm concerned at this point you have no credibility. You have provided no new information or added anything to the discussion.

After testing 3/4 so far (damn my Matari gun skills...) I can safely say that these things rock just as they are. Unless you alpha them off the field good luck (and they now have normal faction BS EHP again), even neuting them out is no guarantee they won't still kill you. Remember that if you can shoot a marauder they can shoot you...and their DPS is still higher than anything else subcap minus a pirate hull or two. It's not going to be some walk in the park to kill one despite what some seem to think. And if they are "doing it right" it won't be one guy in a Marauder, it'll be him, his friends, and a support fleet. Have fun with that. And they each have 3 spare high slots to fit all kinds of utility mods so they can neut/nos just like anybody else. Except that they will be EWAR immune so that Falcon alt will be useless...

Without intending to sound crude, that phrase literally made me climax. Thank you.